Need Original Key Blanks - Plus Lock and Key Info - Rekeying

[texasz]

If I am reading everything correctly there are 4 unique wafers and each lock cylinder takes 6 wafers...this results in 84 possible combinations.  https://www.statskingdom.com/combinations-calculator.html

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by texasz

[Captain Obvious]

17 hours ago, inline6 said:

Regarding the numbers 0-9, if you look on eBay for NOS Datsun locks, there are enough right now to see lock code combinations including 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 0.  I'm guessing 6 is valid as well.  So, I don't know how 4 wafers identified as #1, #2, #3, and #4 in the kit turn into codes like M7048, N1709, N1534

I was wondering if you were talking about the lock code.

There is likely no correlation between "lock code" and wafer numbers or positions. In fact, if there were, it would be unreasonably easy to figure out which wafers were used in which lock. In other words.... If "lock code 1234" corresponded to wafers numbered 1-2-3-4 in that order, then that would be all you would need to make a key for that lock. Not much security there.

I think the "lock code" is just that... A code. Recorded and stamped into the body when the lock was populated with random wafer numbers in random positions. Just because the lock code can seemingly go from 0000 to 9999, I don't think there is anything to be gleaned from that number as far as the wafers are concerned. And yes, there could be duplicates. But without the code book, that's fine. How would you know?

If you have four wafers in your early hatch lock and there are four different wafers, then you have 256 different possibilities. I think I have five wafers in my later hatch lock which provides 1024 possibilities. Seems like they added an additional tumbler to the hatch just like they did with the ignition lock.

[Captain Obvious]

5 hours ago, texasz said:

If I am reading everything correctly there are 4 unique wafers and each lock cylinder takes 6 wafers...this results in 84 possible combinations.

Respectively submitted... I don't think you are reading everything correctly.

As an example, I know that if you have ten different choices and two different spots to put them, you have 100 different combinations (00 to 99). Ten to the exponent of two.

Four different choices and five different spots to put them results in 1024 combinations. Four to the exponent of five.

[inline6]

1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

I was wondering if you were talking about the lock code.

There is likely no correlation between "lock code" and wafer numbers or positions. In fact, if there were, it would be unreasonably easy to figure out which wafers were used in which lock. In other words.... If "lock code 1234" corresponded to wafers numbered 1-2-3-4 in that order, then that would be all you would need to make a key for that lock. Not much security there.

I think the "lock code" is just that... A code. Recorded and stamped into the body when the lock was populated with random wafer numbers in random positions. Just because the lock code can seemingly go from 0000 to 9999, I don't think there is anything to be gleaned from that number as far as the wafers are concerned. And yes, there could be duplicates. But without the code book, that's fine. How would you know?

If you have four wafers in your early hatch lock and there are four different wafers, then you have 256 different possibilities. I think I have five wafers in my later hatch lock which provides 1024 possibilities. Seems like they added an additional tumbler to the hatch just like they did with the ignition lock.

Hmmm.  Yes, I quickly determined that one wafer per position didn't make any sense.  4 distinct wafers, each of which can be in any of the 4 positions, 4 to the fourth, could be accurate, but 256 unique combinations still doesn't make sense to me.  My latest theory is that the lock cylinder, or more precisely, the non-moving parts might play a roll.  Looking at a cut key makes me think this.  The number of "cuts" appear to be more than the number of wafers.  I also don't know what is different within the lock for the L type vs. R type keys.  Still more to investigate.

Edited December 19, 2022 by inline6

[inline6]

Whoops - I just realized that my hatch lock has 5 wafers.  Just wasn't paying enough attention there.  Can see that in my pic.  So four to the 5th power - 1024 combinations.

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by inline6

[texasz]

17 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

I was wondering if you were talking about the lock code.

There is likely no correlation between "lock code" and wafer numbers or positions. In fact, if there were, it would be unreasonably easy to figure out which wafers were used in which lock. In other words.... If "lock code 1234" corresponded to wafers numbered 1-2-3-4 in that order, then that would be all you would need to make a key for that lock. Not much security there.

I think the "lock code" is just that... A code. Recorded and stamped into the body when the lock was populated with random wafer numbers in random positions. Just because the lock code can seemingly go from 0000 to 9999, I don't think there is anything to be gleaned from that number as far as the wafers are concerned. And yes, there could be duplicates. But without the code book, that's fine. How would you know?

If you have four wafers in your early hatch lock and there are four different wafers, then you have 256 different possibilities. I think I have five wafers in my later hatch lock which provides 1024 possibilities. Seems like they added an additional tumbler to the hatch just like they did with the ignition lock.

I completely agree about the codes.

 

17 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Respectively submitted... I don't think you are reading everything correctly.

As an example, I know that if you have ten different choices and two different spots to put them, you have 100 different combinations (00 to 99). Ten to the exponent of two.

Four different choices and five different spots to put them results in 1024 combinations. Four to the exponent of five.

I was reading it correctly except that there seem to be 5 rather than 6 locations for wafers.  What I did wrong was select the incorrect options on the calculator causing it to use the wrong formula.  you are absolutely correct with 1024 (assuming 4 different wafers and 5 positions).

 

[texasz]

All this being said, there are certainly some duplicates out there!  I know for a fact that some older Hondas had this same thing because my best friend and I both had Hondas of the early '80s era and our door keys were the same, ignition keys were different.  This allowed us to easily prank each other from time to time.  😉  

[Captain Obvious]

17 hours ago, inline6 said:

Whoops - I just realized that my hatch lock has 5 wafers.

And if there was a left and a right option for key blank, then the numbers double. So 1024 for each blank resulting in 2048 possibilities total. But no... I really don't think there were any "locksmith adjusted" tumbler modifications in the field to get more than that.

[Captain Obvious]

1 hour ago, texasz said:

What I did wrong was select the incorrect options on the calculator

Yeah, I was sure the math you cited was sound, just misapplied. We're good now.

And, the duplicate thing exists, but unless you go trying your key in other people's cars, then how would you know? Just like you and your buddy with the pranking. Haha!  

[SpeedRoo]

@inline6 there's a chap over in Kuwait selling off a load of NOS keys and locks. Would it make sense to get an original and reset your wafers on your locks to match the keys. Here's a picture of some of the stuff they have.

 

[hiyabrad]

2 hours ago, SpeedRoo said:

@inline6 there's a chap over in Kuwait selling off a load of NOS keys and locks. Would it make sense to get an original and reset your wafers on your locks to match the keys. Here's a picture of some of the stuff they have.

 

@SpeedRoo Can you provide the contact info or a link?

[inline6]

4 hours ago, SpeedRoo said:

@inline6 there's a chap over in Kuwait selling off a load of NOS keys and locks. Would it make sense to get an original and reset your wafers on your locks to match the keys. Here's a picture of some of the stuff they have.

I was going to share that here last night, but then I realized that sharing the codes might not be wise.  I decided to sleep on it.  But I did buy one of those. I will just have to rekey my locks in a "smart way" if you know what I mean.