Jay Leno's Garage - 'The Beginning Of Z Cars: Fairlady Z'. episode Feb. 20th 2023.

[26th-Z]

Love this styling discussion.  Especially from the guy with enough finesse to light his face on fire.  What a "hero".  All these styling comments from everyone who didn't talk to the guy responsible.  However, if they DID talk to the actual designer, (I have), they would understand the influences that this car came from and how coincidental it was when it was introduced.

[xs10shl]

Some thoughts about Leno's show, based on what I've seen over the years.  I do appreciate Leno's role in the public space, where he endeavors to shine a spotlight on both common and uncommon classic cars - the shows he did on steam-powered cars were quite interesting, for example.  That said, it's never been a show where accurate information about much of the cars he features is disseminated- it's really done more in the "variety show" style, where conversations are light and subjective, with plenty of personal anecdotes, and seemingly less homework or prep done on Leno's part beforehand.   By this standard, Leno's treatment of the S30 is no real exception to the norm.  I'm fairly certain they told Mr. Ataka (whom I consider to be quite knowledgeable on the subject) to "dumb it down", "agree with what Jay says", and generally work to make Leno look good.   Worth noting that Leno is a bit older than he was when the show started, and perhaps not quite as sharp - not much he can do about that, we're all aging together at this point.

I call it an opportunity missed for the whole series, and I also wish a few more accurate facts had found their way in to the video, as I do with most of his videos.  But at least neither of the Jays mentioned the word "Goertz" (that I heard), which I consider a small victory.  Baby steps.

Edited February 21, 2023 by xs10shl

[xs10shl]

2 hours ago, SpeedRoo said:

From Supercar Nostalgia: https://supercarnostalgia.com/blog/nissan-s30-fairlady-z-datsun-240z

"Styling-wise, the Z was unapologetically inspired by the Jaguar E-type, a car that Enzo Ferrari had famously described as the most beautiful in the world."

Obviously there are more people with eye problems than I thought!

I also own an E-type, and I would never say that the Z had similar characteristic lines to the coupe.  The E-type's primary charactristics for me are swoopy, rounded fender lines on both extremes, looooong low hood, and slightly too bulbous roofline, with too abrupt a windscreen rake.  Still a classic, no question.

[edit] To add, it's not unusual to have fans of American classics and such to come up at the gas station pump and mis-identify a particular car I'm driving, or not know what certain cars are. I've personally never heard "E-type" when I'm driving a Z, or vice-versa, but perhaps others are getting different comments. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by xs10shl

[Barefootdan]

I thought the video was entertaining. Leno puts out great videos for the car community and I don't expect him to be an expert in every possible chassis there is. While his collection is expansive, he is always open to learning from what I've seen. He asks lots of engaging questions and really enthusiastic about the program.

[Gav240z]

2 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

Love this styling discussion.  Especially from the guy with enough finesse to light his face on fire.  What a "hero".  All these styling comments from everyone who didn't talk to the guy responsible.  However, if they DID talk to the actual designer, (I have), they would understand the influences that this car came from and how coincidental it was when it was introduced.

I believe that car was made for the Canadian market. It says do right on the car itself.

[HS30-H]

1 hour ago, 26th-Z said:

Love this styling discussion.  Especially from the guy with enough finesse to light his face on fire.  What a "hero".  All these styling comments from everyone who didn't talk to the guy responsible.  However, if they DID talk to the actual designer, (I have), they would understand the influences that this car came from and how coincidental it was when it was introduced.

Matsuo san told me several times that the car which surprised he and his fellow design team members the most - because they were shocked at how similar some of the key lines were to what they were working on at the time - was the Maserati Ghibli. Of course, they'd had no preview of the Ghibli or Giugiaro's work on it at Ghia, and the photos from the Turin Motor Show were a shock.

Maybe another good example of the auto styling zeitgeist and two independent teams coming up with similar answers to similar questions?

 

[psdenno]

5 hours ago, Barefootdan said:

I thought the video was entertaining. Leno puts out great videos for the car community and I don't expect him to be an expert in every possible chassis there is. While his collection is expansive, he is always open to learning from what I've seen. He asks lots of engaging questions and really enthusiastic about the program.

Jay Leno's Garage was cancelled in January 2023.

[Yarb]

After the fire that blew up in his face I presume. Big loss in my opinion.

[HS30-H]

23:51 Jay Ataka: "I would say the whole Z thing is about the American market".

Saying this while riding along in the passenger seat of a Japanese market variant is - in my opinion - more than a little odd. We can probably all agree - obviously - that the US market was the biggest single market for many manufacturers, but the S30-series Z was conceived, designed, engineered and produced simultaneously for several different markets and in several different variants. The car that they are sitting in - and supposedly the subject of the show - is an example of that fact. So 'the whole Z thing' is about all the Zs, not just one variant.      

[HS30-H]

25:20 Jay Leno: "Cars didn't start to be introduced in Japan, for everybody, until after the war, correct? Not 'til the Sixties." 

OK, so this is an exaggeration that probably doesn't deserve to be taken so literally (especially considering "for everybody" as a caveat), but I think it warrants a little correction. All the more so when it was said by somebody who was driving along in a Japanese market Japanese car.

Japan's automobile industry was a little late in getting started, but there was plenty of activity in the early part of the 20th Century. Japanese entrepreneurs and nascent industrialists were on the case, and 'our' brand (Datsun/Nissan) can trace its roots back at least to Masujiro Hashimoto's first commercial activities in 1911, establishing Kaishinsha Jidosha Kojo. By 1914 Kaishinsha had produced the first 'DAT' car, named in tribute to his three main investors. The car Leno was driving could arguably trace its DNA back to that 1914 'DAT' car.

There were plenty of other automobile pioneers in Japan around that time too, so it's a little unfair to ignore them. It would also be unfair to Nihon Ford, who built their first factory in Yokohama to assemble the Model T in 1925. Within a few short years they had expanded the factory and fitted a conveyor line system which allowed them to produce 20,000 units per year. In the same period General Motors established a factory in Osaka which allowed them to produce 10,000 cars a year. Private and commercial motor vehicles were a common sight on Japanese roads in the 1920s and 1930s. 

A little bit of trouble in the mid 1940s (*polite cough*) set things back a little, but by the 1950s the Japanese domestic manufacturers were on the case again and a family car was becoming a realistic proposition for many. The Nissan Fairlady Z that Leno was driving is a product of that post-war rebuilding and re-tooling, but has a bloodline which can be traced back to the early 20th Century.

 

Incidentally, if anyone wants to investigate the pioneering days of the Japanese automobile industry, I strongly recommend the National Science Museum of Japan (now renamed the National Museum of Nature and Science) in Ueno, Tokyo. They have an amazing reserve collection relating to the subject and it is very informative: https://www.kahaku.go.jp/english/#        

 

[HS30-H]

31:30 Leno again: "When this car came out, there was no Japanese heritage. You know, ALFA Romeo had heritage, Ferrari, Bentley... had all raced in the 1930s and whatnot. So they (Datsun/Nissan) were brand new. So this really was the beginning of Japanese heritage. And now, 50 years later, it's got a real line. You can trace it all the way back".

As mentioned in my previous post, you can trace it back a lot further than 50 years. I think this is Leno viewing things through the lens of the USA again. Maybe it looks like that to him - and 99% of his YouTube viewers will swallow it whole - but it is wrong.

He mentions ALFA Romeo (established in 1910), Ferrari (established as a racing team in 1929 and not a manufacturer until long after that) and Bentley (established in 1919). Notwithstanding the 'DAT' car of 1914, Nissan was founded in 1933 and was racing soon after. As a brand it is not that much younger than the companies he cites. It was making (and racing) cars before Ferrari, Porsche and many other manufacturers. 



   

 

[HS30-H]

On 2/21/2023 at 4:44 PM, HS30-H said:

Onto the engine bay. 11:51 Ataka: "You kind of see the throttle linkage is stretched all the way... to get there..." (pointing at the carburettors) "...and if you look at a left hand drive 240Z... everything comes natural. This vacuum hose is extended all the way here..." (pulling at the RHD vacuum booster hose) "...this whole thing was designed for the US market..." HUH? Is he saying that the layout of the L6 engine (and therefore the L4 engine too) was designed with the inlet and exhaust manifolds on the left hand side specifically for LHD markets, and the USA in particular? Wow. I'd like to hear him back that one up with some evidence.

This is possibly the sequence of the show that troubles me most. I just don't understand how anyone can seriously imagine that the layout of the Nissan L-gata engine - with inlet and exhaust on the LH side - was somehow "...designed for the US market."

Jay Ataka was pointing at the throttle linkage and waggling the vacuum booster hose when he was saying this. Yes, the throttle pedal and brake pedal/booster are on the RH side of the car in an RHD layout. So are the steering shaft and clutch pedal. Where else are they going to be? The key point is the handing of the inlet and outlet of the engine.

Here on classiczcars we've had discussions in the past about the design 'inspiration' of Nissan's L-gata engine. One member was evangelically convinced that it was "copied" from the Mercedes Benz M180 engine (spoiler: it wasn't) which had inlet and exhaust on the RH side. Prince's G7 six sometimes gets a "Merc copy" mention (Prince and Nissan were competitors at the time) but the G7 had inlet and exhaust on the LH side, same as the Nissan.  

So, Nissan's L-gata engine range "...designed for the US market." Does anybody here want to try to convince me that's true?

Go on, I dare you. 🙂