75 280Z - Starter Motor intermittently clicks when restarting after car has been driven for several miles/in town driving

[HusseinHolland]

I searched & did not find any specific content related to solenoid and/or starter circuit.

Now that I've actually driven the car on short (3-5 mile) runs around the local towns, I have found that the starter will not engage unless I cycle the key several times once the engine & bay are hot - I can hear an audible click from the starter, and the amp meter shows a heavy draw at that moment the key is held in the start position. Up til now I have only started & run the car idling in my driveway.

I gather the issue can be related to the wiring from the ign sw. to the starter solenoid, if it's not the solenoid itself. Since it seems to be a heat soaking thing, I was leaning toward a mechanical issue with the solenoid. 

I don't see a relay in the wiring diagram between the switch and the solenoid terminal. If the wiring is a common problem I will add a relay to offload the the switch & draw current directly from the battery. I had to do this on my X1/9 at one time, so I am familiar with setting that up if needed. I did find a "Starter Relay Upgrade" on ZcarDepot, however I don't see that my 75 even has such a relay in the diagrams.

As an aside, I also see that the OP gauge doesn't always read pressure, although it did previously when I was just idling the motor in the driveway, so that also needs attention. Any typical failure points to look at in that circuit?

Any input on these?

 

[Zed Head]

Two similar problems that I've had are a loose pin in the ignition switch, unlikely in your case, and a loose ignition wire connection at the starter solenoid.  The last one seems possible.  In my case the spade connection seemed to fit well but was not making good electrical contact.  I crimped it tighter with a pair of pliers and it was fixed.

You could rig up a wire under the hood to supply power directly to the starter solenoid terminal (or use a wrench or screwdriver to jump from the hot cable) and try it when the problem happens.  Split the problem in to two parts at the solenoid terminal.

 

[zKars]

Two common areas here. The starter switch as mentioned, or the deteriorated crimp and loose/dirty spade connector that attaches to the spade on the starter. I’ve cleaned the femaile spade on the end of the wire and still had this bad behavior, only to find out there was only one crusty strand of the wire still in the crimp. Remove the spade connector, strip back and clean the wire strands, and re-crimp to a new spade connector

Edited June 2, 2023 by zKars

[inline6]

I had a Datsun 510 with this issue years ago.  When hot, I would turn the key and get a click noise from the starter.  It would usually start after off/on with the ignition key several times.  One time it would not and I tapped on the starter solenoid with a hammer, and then the car started.  I replaced the starter solenoid and resolved the issue.  But, I recommend trying what others above advised first.

Edited June 3, 2023 by inline6

[Captain Obvious]

23 hours ago, HusseinHolland said:

the starter will not engage unless I cycle the key several times once the engine & bay are hot - I can hear an audible click from the starter, 

I gather the issue can be related to the wiring from the ign sw. to the starter solenoid, if it's not the solenoid itself.

If you hear a click from the solenoid and you can see a change on the ammeter, then the problem is not in the ignition switch. It's in the starter.

I had a similar problem where my starter was a rebuilt unit installed by my previous owner. Intermittent operation where it made a loud "CLICK", but wouldn't engage the starter motor. Found that the Bendix unit on the stater had been assembled incorrectly by the rebuild company. Been a number of years (and I didn't take any pics), but fading memory says they had installed a spring incorrectly. On the wrong side of something.

After seeing the problem, I was surprised that it ever worked at all, even intermittently. Anyway, took it apart, relocated the spring, and it's been flawless since.

[HusseinHolland]

So, the ambient temps dropped back into the 60's today, and I could not duplicate the problem. I did look at the wiring & tighten the spade. Not sure how much that matters when it's relying on the round pins on the bridge connector. I took that apart & cleaned both sides with contact cleaner. I'd really like to replace these pins. Does anyone know what series/brand they are (Yakazi, Furukawa, etc.,)? The oil pressure gauge worked again after this, so I have to consider that these contacts are less than ideal now.

I could see that there were issues with the hanrness along the frame rail, so I stripped out the ground wire to the alternator, which had clearly overheated at some point. Thankfully it hadn't shorted or melted through the insulation of any other wires besides the smaller grounds that splice into it. The connector at the inner fender was not tight at all. One of the heavy gauge black wires goes/comes from inside the cabin, not sure offhand what circuit it is grounding, but the connection was not good at all.

made a new ground cable for the alternator, and tied in the 2 smaller ground wires that were previously connected into a separate ground. At the other end, I separated the grounds that came from the cabin & added a separate eyelet

Alternator end

wrapping that up, I ran the engine & immediately smelled gas - #3 injector hose clamp was not fully tight at the rail. I will need to redo all those at some point. I hate the open slot hose clamps, they are not appropriate and always cut into the hose

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by HusseinHolland

[Captain Obvious]

Those connectors are Yazaki.

Good catch on the alternator wire. Glad you caught that one before it became more of a problem!

[Captain Obvious]

Oh, and I meant to complain about your hose clamps a while ago and forgot. So I'm glad to hear you don't like them either. Get some of the originals. They're stainless and don't cut into the rubber tubing.

I don't recommend the aftermarket stuff that looks like the originals. They're not stainless. Get originals.

[HusseinHolland]

10 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Those connectors are Yazaki.

Good catch on the alternator wire. Glad you caught that one before it became more of a problem!

Thank you!

OK - so looks like Yakazi YPC series - EasternBeaver does have them, and it appears CycleTerminal does, but no stock of male pin

10 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Oh, and I meant to complain about your hose clamps a while ago and forgot. So I'm glad to hear you don't like them either. Get some of the originals. They're stainless and don't cut into the rubber tubing.

I don't recommend the aftermarket stuff that looks like the originals. They're not stainless. Get originals.

I do have some proper (OEM Fiat/Volvo) EFI hose clamps left over from my D-Jet & LHII days - I may just use Oetiker clamps, it's not as is they need to be removed at regular intervals anyway.

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by HusseinHolland

[Captain Obvious]

Yes... Yazaki YPC series. Best deal I could find is a guy (named waterloo_specialties) on ebay selling them in batches of 100.

It's 100 male-female pairs for a reasonable price. 100 pairs ought to be a lifetime supply.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194976406675?hash=item2d657fdc93:g:K8gAAOSwEWViVya7&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4GTFG2OldlywISj0sy430UEdRG8xS7Y6%2FczZktJgokfvlm7opKNgOBWINU1dpP20TzMs%2FuMkIkuZQtGVTfRVzf3mVDICx%2F6uRZWJuQwfCEhx7u65AybljdykNewfADKEUggF%2B2gqdvIUodYa%2FWmBqDd%2BqFe4ZJ0d0xFV2UUjsNC3jI7VqL%2FRxuSjms5jTz4SNMPm8z1dCFp67%2FVWR81Sbng6nutXaKgH1n26xDZxXMlBVM6vPd%2BCetwupwNZlCdhFLjiUWNUL5QYbwS3c27YpcBDcqt4C8%2B6kWlG28qZb2eD|tkp%3ABk9SR4yYp-mQYg

I bought 100 pairs a while ago and have been very happy with the whole ordeal.

[HusseinHolland]

10 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yes... Yazaki YPC series. Best deal I could find is a guy (named waterloo_specialties) on ebay selling them in batches of 100.

It's 100 male-female pairs for a reasonable price. 100 pairs ought to be a lifetime supply.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/194976406675?hash=item2d657fdc93:g:K8gAAOSwEWViVya7&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4GTFG2OldlywISj0sy430UEdRG8xS7Y6%2FczZktJgokfvlm7opKNgOBWINU1dpP20TzMs%2FuMkIkuZQtGVTfRVzf3mVDICx%2F6uRZWJuQwfCEhx7u65AybljdykNewfADKEUggF%2B2gqdvIUodYa%2FWmBqDd%2BqFe4ZJ0d0xFV2UUjsNC3jI7VqL%2FRxuSjms5jTz4SNMPm8z1dCFp67%2FVWR81Sbng6nutXaKgH1n26xDZxXMlBVM6vPd%2BCetwupwNZlCdhFLjiUWNUL5QYbwS3c27YpcBDcqt4C8%2B6kWlG28qZb2eD|tkp%3ABk9SR4yYp-mQYg

I bought 100 pairs a while ago and have been very happy with the whole ordeal.

Thats awesome - comes out to 17cents a terminal, seems fair. I bought a batch.

The starter acted up again today, so next order of business is to remove it & see if I can determine a specific issue with the solenoid as you had.

 

 

[Captain Obvious]

2 hours ago, HusseinHolland said:

The starter acted up again today, so next order of business is to remove it & see if I can determine a specific issue with the solenoid as you had

Good luck with it. I'm thinking the high amperage contacts in your solenoid is pitted / eroded away. Weird that it's temp dependent though.