75 280Z - Starter Motor intermittently clicks when restarting after car has been driven for several miles/in town driving

[HusseinHolland]

I put a Delco Reman starter in after work.

There was already a reman in there

Needless to say the problem still exists. I don't understand why the ammeter shows a heavy draw when it clicks if the problem lies in the wiring. I'll put a new spade I=on the solenoid trigger next.

Another question - I can't figure out how the clutch MC cap comes off, it won't turn no matter if I try just turning, push down & turn, lift & turn. I don't want to break it. Seems to have tabs on the sides, but I don't see how they retain it

 

 

[inline6]

That style just snaps on.  Try using your thumbs to pry up on the edge of it.

[Captain Obvious]

28 minutes ago, HusseinHolland said:

I put a Delco Reman starter in after work.  Needless to say the problem still exists.

Wait... What? You get a loud click from the starter, but it doesn't turn? Both the old reman one and the new reman?

"I can hear an audible click from the starter, and the amp meter shows a heavy draw at that moment the key is held in the start position."

Are you sure that click is actually coming from the starter? 

[HusseinHolland]

8 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Wait... What? You get a loud click from the starter, but it doesn't turn? Both the old reman one and the new reman?

"I can hear an audible click from the starter, and the amp meter shows a heavy draw at that moment the key is held in the start position."

Are you sure that click is actually coming from the starter? 

Sounds like the starter to me - I can't imagine there are any mechanical relays that would make that heavy click. I guess I can try & video record it, when it happens next. Was fine this morning coming to work.

 

Yes, both new and old starter symptom is identical. If I bridge the solenoid with a screwdriver it cranks every time.

Edited June 6, 2023 by HusseinHolland

[Yarb]

I had a Deco Remy from RO defective right out of the box. Why not try the gear reduction later model style.

[Captain Obvious]

I'm having a real hard time coming up with a failure scenario that would result in the issue you are having. If you've got enough juice going to the solenoid to illicit a heavy click from said solenoid, then that click indicates that the solenoid has pulled in. And if it has pulled in, the motor should spin.

I guess there's the possibility that there is juuuuuuust the perfect amount of resistance in the low current primary side of the circuit such that the solenoid will move some, but not pull in all the way? I've never seen that situation, but I guess it's possible?

Enough current to the solenoid that it starts to pull in, but the voltage drops along the way (wiring, ignition switch, etc) limit the current to exactly the right amount such that the magnetic force isn't quite enough to pull in all the way and engage the high current contacts. Maybe?

[Captain Obvious]

2 hours ago, HusseinHolland said:

Sounds like the starter to me - I can't imagine there are any mechanical relays that would make that heavy click.

Do you have access to some help in the diagnosis? Someone else to turn the key while you lay a hand on the starter to feel for the click?

[HusseinHolland]

4 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Do you have access to some help in the diagnosis? Someone else to turn the key while you lay a hand on the starter to feel for the click?

I can see if my neighbor can help out later. The annoying thing is that it is not predictable or specifically repeatable under fixed conditions, which doesn't help in diagnosis 😞

I'm going to add a starter relay (temporarily, I have a VW kit from my X1/9 ) & see if the issue still arises.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by HusseinHolland

[HusseinHolland]

14 minutes ago, Yarb said:

I had a Deco Remy from RO defective right out of the box. Why not try the gear reduction later model style.

Good to note. I was going to remove the solenoid from the one I took out & see if there is anything obvious with it. I don't really want to invest in expensive new parts for this drivetrain, since it will be going away in the next year or two.

[Captain Obvious]

9 minutes ago, HusseinHolland said:

The annoying thing is that it is not predictable or specifically repeatable under fixed conditions, which doesn't help in diagnosis

Yeah, that doesn't help at all.

So it does it... You walk away from the car to get help. Walk back with help. They turn the key while you have a hand on the starter, and it cranks fine that time. And the next 1000 times in a row.   

[Captain Obvious]

Oh, and adding a starter relay is a great idea regardless of the issue are having. I've seen burned up contacts inside the ignition switch caused by the solenoid current (which can be upwards of 8A or so IIRC).

[HusseinHolland]

2 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Oh, and adding a starter relay is a great idea regardless of the issue are having. I've seen burned up contacts inside the ignition switch caused by the solenoid current (which can be upwards of 8A or so IIRC).
 

Thanks for the schematic - I was wondering if the starter solenoid trigger came through a fusible link - I couldn't ascertain that from the manual. I'm wondering if the link is contributing - one common denominator is that I typically dislodge the links/cover when I'm leaning over to check this stuff. I was wondering if I'm loosing current via the link under load. The green one does feel pretty warm to the touch. I was going to remove these & run the circuits via the fuses on the fused battery supply I added

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by HusseinHolland