This will be unfortunate news if windshields are the new NLA! That will make installation that much more stressful

Well, the good news -- maybe -- is that Pilkington (Britain-based, with manufacturing operations in several countries worldwide) has been owned by Nippon Sheet Glass in 2006 and now operates as a NSG subsidiary.  Pilkington's website describes their automotive business as follows: "

Operating as a single global organization serving the Original Equipment (OE) and Local Automotive Glass Replacement (AGR) Aftermarket sectors... The North American aftermarket operations supply laminated and tempered glass for the automotive glass replacement market. All products meet or exceed Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. Products are shipped from its distribution centers in Columbus, Ohio and Phoenix, Arizona to external retailers and wholesale customers and its network of company-owned wholesale service centers throughout the US... Windshields, sidelites, backlites, accessories and specialty AGR products are included in the customer offering of Pilkington North America AGR".

The British Pilkington website includes 'Pilkington Classics' products and lists hundreds of replacement items for older cars. That list includes both a 240Z windshield and backlight.  It looks like they operate on a custom-order basis and no prices are shown.  I suspect they wouldn't be interested in filling single-unit orders, but would be amenable to an order for 20+ from someone like MSA.

On 7/11/2023 at 4:54 PM, Racer X said:

Windshield glass shouldn't be difficult to find.

The question is, if you were paying someone to install it, and they broke it, why are you looking? It should fall on them to find another, at their expense. 

Painter's feedback pre removal was that glass gets brittle over time and "We are going to try to remove it, but given the age and a small chip its likely it may break. I will not warranty the glass so its up to you if you want to do it yourself or have us do it." It came out smoothly but didn't go back in as well. He is going to comp the labor for removal and install, but I am covering the materials.  

1 hour ago, Muzez said:

Painter's feedback pre removal was that glass gets brittle over time ….

I call bs.

Glass is a very stable material, able to endure millennia provided it is not changed in any way.

From Wikipedia:

“Generally speaking, emulsions/colloidal systems and glasses are metastable. The metastability of silica glass, for example, is characterized by lifetimes on the order of 10⁹⁸  years (as compared with the lifetime of the universe, which is thought to be around 13.787 X 10⁹  years).”

Ten to the ninetyeighth power is a very long time. Glass will outlive any of the other materials a car is made from. Without any interference from, say vandalism, if a car is left to sit undisurbed, after the metals corrode to dust, the plastics and vinyls decay into crumbs, the glass will still be there, dirty and covered in whatever growth is common to the place it is.

So yes, glass may become unstable over time.

A very, very long time.

 

1 hour ago, Muzez said:

and "We are going to try to remove it, but given the age and a small chip its likely it may break. 

There it is. The small chip results in a weak point in the glass structure. 

If it had not been damaged, the glass would have been fine, given proper care and handling. Even brand new glass will be weakened when nicked or chipped. 
 

 

 

Edited July 13, 20231 yr by Racer X

The polymer adhesive layer probably loses flexibility over time.  That could change the forces on the two glass layers.  And besides the visible chips the whole surface of the glass is probably etched to a certain degree after years of road debris and acid rain and washings.  A vast array of stress risers.  As a whole, an old windshield would/should be more prone to cracking than a new one.  One more opinion.

Did @zKars ever get his windshield?  He said he would post back in that other thread.

No I never did get the SummitRacing ordered windshield

I got lucky here, another Datsun guy that specialized in 510's worked out a deal with a US Pilkington rep years ago and was having batches of 10 windshields for Z's and 510 brought up to a local glass shop. He has moved on and I have now taken up that function. I still have about 5 of each in stock for local users. I'm getting really good at doing Z and 510 windshields now. His information was that virtually ALL auto glass is now made in one of two Chinese factories. I have seen differences in thickness, and one windshield was noticeably undersized when I installed it, but that's about it. The factory codes on all the glass show it made in the same specific factory in China.

BTW And I have NEVER EVER broken a front or back glass while removing it. I remove the weather stripping face first with a HB olfa blade (flat to the glass) then just tap and push until it comes free. I've had cases where I've thrown old windshields and hatch glass in a dumpster hoping for the big crash and been disappointed as it just landed flat and intact. I'm sure it was laughing at me. 

I have not been brave enough to attempt a removal of a windshield whose weatherstripping is new and soft enough to flex and remove. I know that is a technique, it just never has come up enough that I had to learn it. Someday.

I do have some aftermarket glass available in NJ. Not sure your location. 

On 7/13/2023 at 9:27 AM, Racer X said:

I call bs.

Glass is a very stable material, able to endure millennia provided it is not changed in any way.

From Wikipedia:

“Generally speaking, emulsions/colloidal systems and glasses are metastable. The metastability of silica glass, for example, is characterized by lifetimes on the order of 10⁹⁸  years (as compared with the lifetime of the universe, which is thought to be around 13.787 X 10⁹  years).”

Ten to the ninetyeighth power is a very long time. Glass will outlive any of the other materials a car is made from. Without any interference from, say vandalism, if a car is left to sit undisurbed, after the metals corrode to dust, the plastics and vinyls decay into crumbs, the glass will still be there, dirty and covered in whatever growth is common to the place it is.

So yes, glass may become unstable over time.

A very, very long time.

Agree 100%

We have pulled (and re-installed) DOZENS of windshields. They're not glued in. The glass can be removed safely EVEN IF the gasket is hard. (And believe me, in the desert South West the rubber is always baked to a crisp!). One can cut the exterior of the gasket, remove the trim, and cut around the glass without chipping the glass in any way. The glass can be lifted out once the exterior of the gasket is removed from it. Then the rest of the gasket in the flange can be removed. With a new gasket, windshield reinstallation should be easier than getting it out. Hell, with a flexible gasket, we've removed the windshield with the gasket in place - and reinstalled it. Patience is the key to joy.

Once we had a Z come in with small crack on the upper left tip (only in the top layer of the glass). No replacement windshield, so we had to pull and reinstall it with the crack. 

EDIT:

I have a Pilkington warehouse nearby and with covid they changed their inventory system. So, when I stopped in they couldn't even find Z glass in their computer system or catalog. I spread that word - but - we have a retired glass guy that has provided us with glass for years before he retired. He just looked up the old part number, called the wholesaler and found that they had 4 in stock. They don't anymore... (but I didn't actually get the part number from him - my bad)

Edited July 15, 20231 yr by cgsheen1

You work in Arizona where it never gets cold.  Did you or your son ever break a windshield?  You said you replaced dozens but didn't say that you never broke one.

My first experience removing a windshield was in a wrecking yard.  The owner was gone and his wife told me and my friend that we should wait but I told her that we could do it.  It was about 35 F.  A small tendril of adhesive was still attached (GM used a rope of sticky tar-like adhesive for windshield installs.  Nasty stuff)  as we tried to lift it out and it cracked.  We left, I didn't pay for it (cause I was a punk kid), and the owner started calling me "Easy Money" after that.  In the long run I paid him back by giving him a 66 GTO (the same one that I was getting the windshield for) after I wrecked it, and his son a 55 Chevy pickup truck after the axle bearing went bad.

The statement was, basically, that old windshields, especially those with chips, are more prone to cracking than new ones.  Just because you guys were careful enough to get it done doesn't mean the statement is not true.  Anybody who's watched a chip grow in to a crack and spread across the windshield should know.

Tell some stories about how to get it done.  Heating the adhesive helps,  a warm day helps, make sure that every scrap of adhesive is cut free (a PO might have tried to seal a windshield leak in the past).  Stuff like that.

 

Interesting though that by the statement it broke during installation.  So the BS calling ia about the wrong part as are my suggestions above.

On 7/13/2023 at 8:20 AM, Muzez said:

It came out smoothly but didn't go back in as well.

 

 

On 7/12/2023 at 8:09 AM, Namerow said:

  It would be interesting to know how long ago your MSA-sourced windshield was actually made.

I received this in early 2020. Here is a pic of the markings. There might be a date code in there. 

I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but another option is the FYG or Fuyao glass. I ordered it from a local glass shop and they had it in a couple of days, probably came in from a regional warehouse. Carried it out the door for about $225. Glass looks nice quality, not wavy and no blue band across the top.

On 7/15/2023 at 11:16 AM, Zed Head said:

You work in Arizona where it never gets cold.  Did you or your son ever break a windshield?  You said you replaced dozens but didn't say that you never broke one.

We have never broken one during removal or install. We were very nervous about removing and reinstalling the windshield with the crack so we were super careful (and had a fair amount of experience on our side at that point.) In the beginning, we were super careful because we weren't sure we could find a replacement. Then we had some solid experience, and had developed a removal method once we found that we could source replacements.

I have broken a windshield out of the car... On our shop move a few years ago, I didn't pack one well enough...

And, who says it doesn't get cold in Arizona? Why I've seen temps in the mid-to-upper 30's!! - well, until the sun comes up... (and I'm wearing a light jacket while these Arizonan's are bundled up in ski parkas - I grew up in Idaho and waited for the school bus in -30 temps.)

Okay, I'll admit that we don't trust any modern windshield installers. They glue windshields in. That's pretty much all they know. A gasketed windshield installed over a flange is foreign to them. So, here's how we don't crack windshields:

A. Use a utility knife (Xacto knife, single edge razor blade) to slice away the thin rubber that holds the trim on. Remove the stainless steel trim.

2. Utility knife - slice the exterior gasket carefully in the flat that was covered by the trim. You're looking for the edge of the glass. Once you find it, cut around it - all the way - enough that you can remove all the rubber from the outside face of the glass.

2b. You can do the above by yourself, but what follows really needs an assistant. Or two.

c. Carefully push the glass out from inside the car. Lift just a little bit all along the perimeter until you're sure that all edges of the glass are unattached and it can be removed without interference.

D. Remove the rest of the original gasket from the flange and clean the flange completely. REMOVE the dash finisher (the black crescent moon shape metal piece).

5. Get the new or exisiting windshield on a stand and install the new gasket on the glass. Be sure the glass is fully in the channel all around. Lube helps - very soapy water.

6. Install the stainless steel trim - not the corners, just the long pieces. Ya, do it now - it's MUCH easier than after the windshield is in place. The back side of the trim IS SHARP. It'll slice the rubber if you're not careful. You can file or sand the sharp edges if you're OCD (or even if you're not...) You have to raise the rubber flap up and over the edge of the trim. Lube helps - we use Meguiar's Hyper Dressing - and a smooth skinny tool: Awl, pick, screwdriver, smooth without sharp anything that will cut the thin flaps that hold the trim.

g. Install a long cord in the gasket groove - thicker is better - like the olde tyme clothes line cord, cotton is better, but I have 3/8" polyester that works. WET the cord FIRST - yup, soak it in water. Add a little dish soap if you want, we need lubrication. The cord needs to pass each other at the meeting point by 10-12 inches. We like the meeting point at the top of the glass in the middle and the ends need to hang out fairly far - you need to get a good grip on either one - perhaps wrapping it around your hand.

H. Lube up the windshield flange metal with some dish soap and water or Hyper Dressing.

i. Two people - set the windshield - with the gasket snug all around - into the flange. Cord ends should be inside the car. Make sure it's centered all around.

ii. One person is going to pull the cords inside to pull the rubber gasket into the interior of the car, sealing it to the interior side of the flange. At the top and on the pillars it'll be set over the vinyl. The other person is going to be on the outside holding the glass in place while the cord is being pulled. That person will use both hands as often as possible, palms down, fingers splayed on the glass. Their job is two-fold: 1. As the cord is pulled, the glass will want to move opposite of the pull (starts at the top, it'll want to move down, when the pull is on a side, it'll want to push to the other side. Exterior person needs to keep the edges of the glass/gasket from moving out of the hole the windshield sits in. 2. When the cord is pulled the glass needs to sink into the frame when the rubber is pulled into the interior. So, a certain amount of exterior pressure can be needed to keep the glass settling inward as the cord pull progresses.

J. With the person with hands on the glass externally, the person inside starts to pull the cord. The cord hanging on the right side will be pulled to the left, and vice versa. Pull one cord only. Pull it at a 90 degree angle to the glass. Pull carefully and slowly if necessary. Don't pull so fast that the person on the exterior can't manage keeping the glass in place or help you get the glass to sink into the hole. I'll be easy until you get to the top corner(s). Stop at the corner and pull the gasket up on the inside and get it set into the flange as much as possible. The gasket needs to be pulled outward (like lifting it the same direction as the outside edge of the glass) getting it to set firmly in the flange. That helps the glass pull inward as well. At the corner, go very slowly and swing the cord in a circle as you're carefully pulling corner gasket rubber. Sounds stupid, but it works and doesn't cut the gasket. Once past, make sure your helper keeps the glass from moving out of the hole on the opposite side. Before getting to the bottom corner, pull the gasket into the flange - do it as you go and it'll help. Now pull across the bottom - it'll want to make the glass pop out of the side that's not pulled yet. All this time your helper needs to be getting the windshield to push inward as you're pulling cord and setting gasket into flange. If you have two helpers, it makes it very easy. Keep going around the entire windshield and do the second top corner same as the first. Pressure on the outside. Finish up by pressing firmly down on the outside, and pulling the gasket firmly into the flange on the inside.

k. if it doesn't set right - have no fear - just remove it and start again. Pull the gasket rubber on the inside down on one corner and push that corner out carefully - continue around the whole windshield, take a deep breath, lube it up, try again. (But... It's a LOT easier if you're patient and get it right the first time...)

L. Push the gasket out as far as you can - especially at the top corners. Install the trim corners and gap cover pieces. The stainless steel trim is not just for looks - it helps maintain the gasket in it's proper place and will help stop the gasket from pulling away from the top corners. Don't use it at you own peril...

Note: I do not use any adhesive or gasket seal. These gaskets were designed to seal around the glass and flange without it. Now, I'm fully aware that that isn't always true. BUT, Arizona (no rain) and Z owners here wouldn't (don't) drive their Z's in the rain even if there was. Okay, they still wash their cars, but heat and NO humidity dries things FAST here. YOU can decide for yourself if you want to use such a thing - Nissan did - in spots - on the later models. I still don't.

And: Patience is the key to Joy... Fortune cookie...

 

Edited July 16, 20231 yr by cgsheen1