Stroker or turbo?

[cgsheen1]

15 hours ago, w3wilkes said:

I used to have this little money pit and it had Turbo LAG! 1977 930 When I bought it the guy said "have it pointed in the direction you want to go before you put your foot in it, if you don't pay attention and skip this rule the back of the car will pass the front". It was a blast for a few years, but to rich for my blood.

That's about the farthest thing away from an L28ET that you can get (oh, wait,, Koenigsegg)... And with the correct turbo setup it slides into boost smooth as silk - it's not an unexpected or abrupt gush of power.

For everyone else reading - my opinions and observations: You control boost with your RIGHT foot. I've heard what you said above before and in the 12 years I've (almost) daily driven this car I've (almost) never had that happen and I drive it up the mountain through the twisties as often as I can. The L28ET in a Z is a beast uphill and if you have the proper friction doesn't do too bad downhill either.

Some people have this weird notion - Wait, story: Close friend and Z enthusiast is restoring a Z - thinking that his wife will drive it (he's already been driving a 260Z for years). He has a spare L28ET. He's talking to me about what engine to put in "his wife's Z" (ya... she's rarely, if ever, gonna drive it...). I (of course) suggest the turbo motor. He says "well, the wife is going to drive it, so it needs to be simple and reliable ("and not overly powerful" he didn't say but meant)".

I said:

Does your carbed Z start right up, not require any choke, run quite smoothly even when it's COLD (okay, it never really gets COLD here in Phoenix... but you know what I mean) And I'm NOT saying every carbed Z is a PITA to start or start cold - we've had plenty in the shop that start and run like a dream. But we've had others that most chicks would try once and bounce - back to their Lexus or Acura...

When you're not in boost the turbo engine drives like any other normal car. If you want to drive it like a grandma, you CAN. I can putt around at 25 MPH all day long! It doesn't care. (and if the setup is correct, going into boost just provides very controllable acceleration power)

What were turbochargers invented for? Cars? NO! AIRCRAFT... And in an airplane they need to be AS SIMPLE AND RELIABLE AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE!

What about all the guys having problems with their turbo's or blowing up their engines? They DON'T have the correct turbo setup for the application and/or they're pushing the turbo beyond it's specs OR they don't have the correct tune - or all of the above.

AND - You control boost with YOUR RIGHT FOOT!

Other things:

But EFI is more complicated than carbs! Uh, does every other car in town have carbs??? Are they all broken down on the side of the road every day? I'll say that you had to have a fair amount of learning to rebuild, install, and PROPERLY SYNC and TUNE your twin SU carburetors. EFI is a slightly different learning process BUT guess what? It still takes SPARK, FUEL, & TIMING.

But, turbo motor requires re-wiring, maybe a standalone ECU (not maybe), and maybe charge pipe and stuff - it's expensive... How much money to build an N/A stroker, or a 3 liter, or head work to get an L28 to make 180-200 RWHP?? Ya, it's expensive, SO - sixes? 

How do you take a turbo motor from 180 RWHP to 250 RWHP? Turn up the boost from .5 BAR to less than 1.0 BAR and retune... About 11-12 pounds or so. How do you do that in an N/A?

I want my Z to make 350 RWHP -- NO, YOU DON'T! Not without extensive chassis and suspension modification! 300 RWHP applied aggressively will twist a Z unibody apart. Ask me how I know = Bella in Surprise Arizona...

okay bracing for the onslaught...

Edited August 30, 2023 by cgsheen1

[Dave WM]

turbo, just so I can follow along and get inspired to take mine off the run stand and install it in the Z.....

[Diseazd]

On 8/29/2023 at 5:38 PM, w3wilkes said:

I thought I'd read on these forums somewhere about a recurring race between SU's and triples and this last go round the SU's won? ? @DiseazdWas it you?

Eiji and I try to hit Dinwiddie quarter mile track once a year. He almost always has more motor than me, but I did beat his 280ZX with triples in my stroker 240Z. Eiji generally runs in the low 14’s and I in the low 15’s.

[Patcon]

@cgsheen1

I think you covered a lot of what I had worked through in my own mind.

I like EFI! Get in it and it starts and idles no matter the weather. Great fuel delivery control; coil on plug; all of that.

I figure a stroker motor will cost $5-6k without head work. Add $2500 for port and polish. Long term I would want ITB's. $4k for the ITB's. $2-3k for a stand alone ECU. It starts to get expensive... All in $14-20k... It might make 300Hp, it might make 225Hp. Lots of variables unless I have Dave or Eiji build it. Which adds even more costs

I have 2 complete with harness L28ET's in my shop. I sort of have an EFI fuel tank, once I get all of the dents out. Would probably go stand alone ECU at some point, unless I can't sort the factory EFI and get it to run properly. I would think for now I would run stock internals and not get too crazy with the boost. If I need to upgrade the internals, I could build the other block and just swap them out. All in, this route seems like it would be significantly cheaper than the stroker...?

Now, don't get me wrong, I love the look of ITB's and I have obviously collected stroker parts for a reason. But I don't have limitless resources, either time or money. So the turbo seemed to make the most sense in my mind. The reason the question comes up now for me was timing. If I were going to take a stab at the stroker, I might build the engine before Tampa Zcon and drop it in. If I go turbo, then I would get the car running on another engine with some carbs and do the turbo motor after Tampa. I don't think there is time for me to swap to EFI and sort it before Tampa. It just adds too much work to an already crowded schedule

[jonbill]

Fwiw, I converted from distributor&carbs to EFI and wasted spark for about £2200 all in.

Chinese ITBs, Speeduino ECU and lots of second hand ebay bits.

It was quite a lot of work though.

[Patcon]

I'm not sure I have the time to devote to that.

[Patcon]

On 8/31/2023 at 1:30 AM, jonbill said:

Fwiw, I converted from distributor&carbs to EFI and wasted spark for about £2200 all in.

Chinese ITBs, Speeduino ECU and lots of second hand ebay bits.

It was quite a lot of work though.

Do you ever post up a thread or how to on how you did this?

[jonbill]

3 hours ago, Patcon said:

Do you ever post up a thread or how to on how you did this?

There's a long rambling thread here about the journey. Many of the "facts" I stated in it were my best guess at the time 😀

Post in thread 'Speeduino installation' https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/speeduino-installation.23302/post-300998

[SteveJ]

5 hours ago, jonbill said:

There's a long rambling thread here about the journey. Many of the "facts" I stated in it were my best guess at the time 😀

Post in thread 'Speeduino installation' https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/speeduino-installation.23302/post-300998

I actually happened across some of your posts there when I was doing research on EDIS with Megajolt today.

[Patcon]

22 hours ago, jonbill said:

There's a long rambling thread here about the journey. Many of the "facts" I stated in it were my best guess at the time 😀

Post in thread 'Speeduino installation' https://zclub.net/community/index.php?threads/speeduino-installation.23302/post-300998

Thanks for that. I read all 7 pages last night. Lot's of good info