Quaife LSD Installation in R180 - With Questions About Installation Also

[inline6]

I have waited until I was in the right mood to pick up this project of fixing my back lash issue, and tonight, I was able to take this on.  

I removed the side flanges, then the one ring gear bolt, so the carrier would come out of the case, and then pressed out the pinion shaft.  Rather than removing this bearing (the one in the pic) from the pinion shaft to get access to the washer/spacer (blue arrow) which is sandwiched between the bearing and the gear, I was able to user vernier calipers to measure the washer/spacer thickness.

 

My measurement was about 0.141", (between 140 and 141 thousandths, really).  Converting to mm, 0.141" is 3.5814 mm.  Looking at what is available on a Subaru website, I found these part numbers:
 

 

Since my measurement is nearly the same as the 383655200 spacer, it would appear that I only have one spacer which is thicker as an option available. 3.57 mm is equal to 0.1405".  3.63 mm is equal to 0.1429".  So, order that one, swap it out, reassemble, and recheck gear lash?

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by inline6

[Jeff Berk]

You are a few weeks ahead of me. I couldn't find anything on the internet about rebuilding a R180 so I was using the instructions for a R200 at:

Like you, he also used gear marking compound.

I purchased a KAAS 1.5 LSD and it just shipped last night from RHDJapan.com (model DBN2020SQ). I'm reluctant to remove the pinion shaft because I'm not sure I can get the lash correct when I reinstall it with new bearings. I'm looking forward to how it goes with your build. Please keep us updated. 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Jeff Berk

[inline6]

The shim I have on order from Subaru still hasn't shipped.  At the time of my order, they indicated it was on national backorder and provided an eta of 90 days (they have no clue when it will be available again).  That 90 days is up in a couple of days.  I expect they will contact me to say it hasn't come in and I can either cancel my order or wait another 90 days.

So, I find myself thinking of other options.  Any engineers on here have thoughts on using a shim like this?  

https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Carbon-Assortment-Temper-Chemistry/dp/B00065UXD8/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Steel+Shim+.003&qid=1703611083&s=industrial&sr=1-3

My thought is to use the existing shim I have, plus another shim or shims made from this shim material.  I would put the new shim under the existing one to change the location of the pinion gear height in the case.  For example, I would make a .003" shim from the new shim material, and then place it here on the pinion assembly:

[CanTechZ]

Check out McMaster Carr for washer shim stock.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/shim-washers/ring-shims-7/

[Patcon]

@Captain Obvious

This sounds like a metallurgical question to me

[grannyknot]

The shim stock on Amazon is certainly the right kind of metal but shaping it to the diameter inside and out could prove to be a tough job, the McMaster Carr washers are probably your best bet.

[Captain Obvious]

Hmmm. I'd be reluctant to use that Amazon shim material in this application. I think I'd want a hardened washer in that application.

How high do you torque the nut on the end of the pinion gear? I'm worried that you would ooze a low carbon shim at high torque. Is the original spacer shim hardened? Does a file cut it easy, or just skate off the surface?

But you could certainly use that shim material as proof of concept. You could cut that thin stuff (.003) with scissors for the OD. Easy peasy. The ID you might be able to hack out with a razor knife. I'm thinking that the profile doesn't have to be perfect, just fit over the pinion even if the ID is a little rough.

Cut the shim, put it together and check the backlash. That will at least confirm for sure what thickness shim you really need.

[Captain Obvious]

I just took a quick look at McMaster and the thinnest hardened shim they have is 0,1mm (.0039) about 4 thousandths, which is too thiick.

You could grind the thickness of your original spacer down to need a thicker auxiliary spacer. I don't know why she swallowed a fly.

[dutchzcarguy]

Correct me if i'm wrong please but... a shim of 0,003 inch is 0,0762 mm!  I NEVER seen a shim that thin!  Are you sure??  I know that the right spot on the gears for all that raw power💪 is important but 0,003 inch?? or 0,07mm ???  If it is.. i would make some more space for a fatter ring/shim.

Edited December 27, 2023 by dutchzcarguy

[grannyknot]

11 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Hmmm. I'd be reluctant to use that Amazon shim material in this application. I think I'd want a hardened washer in that application.

CO, the Amazon stuff says it is "Full Hardened Temper", of course with amazon it could be anything but wouldn't that be hard enough to handle the 100 or so ft.lbs of torque required for the pinion nut?

[Captain Obvious]

Well honestly, I find that description of "full hardened temper" to be marketing jargon at best, and completely nonsensical at worst. By that, I mean... For something to be "full hardened" it means "was made as hard as we could make it and did not temper at all after hardening". If you tempered it, it's not full hard anymore. That's the whole point of tempering.

But even before that... The description of the listing says it's 1008 steel, which doesn't contain enough carbon to even BE hardenable in the first place. You need a certain amount of carbon in the mix before steel will even react to a hardening process, and 1008 is well below that threshold.

So, when I see "full hardened" 1008 steel, it really makes no sense to me. I would expect 1008 to be dead soft malleable whether you TRIED to harden it or not. The plastic deformation threshold would be very low compared to something that is (honestly) heat treated hardened.

For example, if you take a look at the shims from McMaster. They also offer low carbon steel shims. 1008-1010 steel. And the hardness rating is Rockwell B40. The higher carbon "spring steel" shims (1074-1095 steel) is significantly harder at Rockwell C44 or at least B85

I'm curious how hard the original spacer is.

[Zed Head]

You might trying to talk to the source.  Amazon is not known for accuracy in their product descriptions.

They say that they know stuff.

https://www.smallpartsinc.com/contact/

https://www.smallpartsinc.com/about-the-company/

“Excellence & Service with Integrity”

 

Being an excellent metal stampings provider isn’t about what equipment we have, it is about what we know, and how we conduct our business. Striving to live up to our organizational values above translates into value for our customers