I've Seen The Future

[grannyknot]

2 hours ago, davewormald said:

 So @grannyknot you don't need to add the self-driving option to my car.

Now you tell me.

[psdenno]

4 hours ago, Mark Maras said:

 If they still made affordable cars that are fun to drive (Miata for example), young people would learn to drive well and love it.

That would be nice.  Otherwise, we, or our surviving spouses, are going to have a difficult time finding buyers for our Z cars at some point.  I have three fun to drive cars (the Z, a Porsche, and an Avanti) that my son hasn't shown too much interest in taking.  He recently bought an electric car that fills his need for a fun to drive car.  Where did I go wrong in raising him?

[Patcon]

1 hour ago, psdenno said:

That would be nice.  Otherwise, we, or our surviving spouses, are going to have a difficult time finding buyers for our Z cars at some point.  I have three fun to drive cars (the Z, a Porsche, and an Avanti) that my son hasn't shown too much interest in taking.  He recently bought an electric car that fills his need for a fun to drive car.  Where did I go wrong in raising him?

You could adopt me! I'll show an interest 😁

[Paulytunes]

9 hours ago, psdenno said:

In case you do eventually get a driverless car for your wife and daughter, you might want to start learning Lidar repair skills if you plan on maintaining it yourself.  Not much will be owner serviceable in the future.

Not much with new cars now is serviceable.  With all the integrated infotainment and computer systems that look like slapped on iPads, there's no easy way to even upgrade the stereo anymore if you want better sound or other media features.  And when you have to remove a lot of plastic nonsense to even get to the serviceable engine parts and need special tools to do any work, why would you want to?    

[Paulytunes]

8 hours ago, davewormald said:

I kind of look at this as two different activities. For a lot of travel, I'd love to be able to call a car to come pick me up and drive me to my destination while I read/talk/sleep/drink a beer. This would have been especially true when I was travelling for business, and had only a crappy rental to drive. On the other hand, I like driving, so there are times when I want to go out just to enjoy driving, either as a dedicated activity, or as a side benefit while I'm going somewhere. Fortunately, I don't think driving is likely to be banned in most of our lifetimes, though gas and parts could one day get very expensive and hard to find. So @grannyknot you don't need to add the self-driving option to my car.

I'll still take a crappy rental over a driverless car any day.  I agree gas will likely only get more expensive, especially if the Government and auto industry pushes us to electric vehicles.  I'm still on the fence with those too.  Although the instantaneous power and torque provides almost unmatchable acceleration over gasoline powered combustion engines, I have still yet to see one that excites me enough to want to make the leap.  I'll argue that there is no current electric vehicle that provides the same fun-to-drive factor as the few remaining performance cars still being offered.  

[davewormald]

12 hours ago, Paulytunes said:

I'll still take a crappy rental over a driverless car any day.  I agree gas will likely only get more expensive, especially if the Government and auto industry pushes us to electric vehicles.  I'm still on the fence with those too.  Although the instantaneous power and torque provides almost unmatchable acceleration over gasoline powered combustion engines, I have still yet to see one that excites me enough to want to make the leap.  I'll argue that there is no current electric vehicle that provides the same fun-to-drive factor as the few remaining performance cars still being offered.  

I've been in a few Tesla's, and they weren't very interesting to me at all. I got a demo of the 0-60 acceleration in either Insane or Ludicrous mode (can't remember which), and it was quite surreal, but it didn't compare to accelerating an IC engine through its gears, even though it happened in a third of the time. Silly developments like this one tell you that there are people who will never see electric cars as a replacement for their IC-powered toys:

"For those who find electric cars a bit boring, Toyota engineers are working on a realistic-feeling fake manual transmission as a possible feature. To be clear, a manual transmission on an electric car would serve absolutely no purpose. It would be just for fun, an add-on for people who like shifting gears in their gasoline-powered cars."

I've also seen articles talking about manufacturers adding engine-like sounds to their cars. It's hard to imagine the people they're aiming these "innovations" at being "fooled". I'm an electrical engineer. I've spent most of my career in software businesses. In my opinion, auto manufacturers have always botched up electrical systems, and have been even worse with more sophisticated electronics, and (especially) user interface design (post-physical dials, buttons, and switches). Modern "infotainment" systems are abominations. It's one of those glaring hypocrisies that we levy heavy fines for distracted driving when someone touches a cell phone while driving, but expect people to adjust the cabin temperature or change the radio station on one of those things. Give me an early Z dashboard any day (even with the cracks).

[Paulytunes]

20 hours ago, davewormald said:

I've been in a few Tesla's, and they weren't very interesting to me at all. I got a demo of the 0-60 acceleration in either Insane or Ludicrous mode (can't remember which), and it was quite surreal, but it didn't compare to accelerating an IC engine through its gears, even though it happened in a third of the time. Silly developments like this one tell you that there are people who will never see electric cars as a replacement for their IC-powered toys:

"For those who find electric cars a bit boring, Toyota engineers are working on a realistic-feeling fake manual transmission as a possible feature. To be clear, a manual transmission on an electric car would serve absolutely no purpose. It would be just for fun, an add-on for people who like shifting gears in their gasoline-powered cars."

I've also seen articles talking about manufacturers adding engine-like sounds to their cars. It's hard to imagine the people they're aiming these "innovations" at being "fooled". I'm an electrical engineer. I've spent most of my career in software businesses. In my opinion, auto manufacturers have always botched up electrical systems, and have been even worse with more sophisticated electronics, and (especially) user interface design (post-physical dials, buttons, and switches). Modern "infotainment" systems are abominations. It's one of those glaring hypocrisies that we levy heavy fines for distracted driving when someone touches a cell phone while driving, but expect people to adjust the cabin temperature or change the radio station on one of those things. Give me an early Z dashboard any day (even with the cracks).

davewormald, I couldn't agree with you more.  Touchscreens are a very poor substitute for well placed, tactile buttons that you intuitively learn to reach for without looking at it - my previously and currently owned Subarus and Toyotas (and 280Z, of course) seemed to do this pretty well.  The Golf Mk8 is likely the shining example, in my opinion, of one of the most poorly executed infotainment and vehicle control systems, but BMWs are pretty bad too.  I agree there is much irony in the fact that operating one of these poorly designed control systems is not considered distracted driving because takes more time and focus than a terrible driver would expend upon trying to check texts or make a phone call on their smartphone.  Unfortunately, we can only defend ourselves against those who don't take driving seriously.  Maybe the solution is putting all of them in driverless, automated vehicles.

Being a Mechanical Engineer, I have wondered often where the high point of analog/mechanical excellence is in automotive design and at what year we reached that plateau.  We've certainly passed that point now, and I guess you could make the argument that when EFI entered the picture, that may be where the line is drawn.  Still, my fuel injected 280Z gives me feedback that most modern cars have filtered out.  Even though most vehicles now on the highway accelerate faster, the modern metal just doesn't have that visceral feeling that mashing the accelerator, the throttle linkage extending, and the L28 roaring in response.  Older cars have a sense of urgency and connection that has been lost on modern cars, in my opinion.   

I guess that brings us into the car manufacturers getting into adding fake features to modern cars.  All I want to ask is why would they choose this route?  To me, this is providing a half-assed solution that no one is really going to want or respect, akin to adding silly modifications that provide no performance value, yet the installer will swear up and down that the car has more horsepower because they added a silly yellow sticker.  I hate the fake exhaust sound pumped into the cabin because it is fake and serves no purpose other than to fool the passengers.  If you want me to feel more connected to the road, make me a car that has an analog dash, ergonomically well placed controls, and that I can work on myself as needed.  Unfortunately, no one will ever make a new car with these features, because too few people would by it.  "The world has moved on," as Stephen King says.            

Edited November 24, 2023 by Paulytunes
corrections