Just started Auto-Xing and am hooked! I have this '73 in the garage I have been building into something a bit hotter than the green car and now it looks like this bug I have will turn it into a auto-X car. First of all, NO, I haven't sprung for the SCCA book. But there are a few places on line where the rules are posted, give or take a little......! I have been running in BSP, as that was where I was told to go. But reading the SP rules has me wondering if I am legal. Most of the Z's I read about who compete on a national SOLOII level are FP. I think from reading the rules the basic 'theme' for SP is the car is still street legal. You and I both know you can build a Z beyond SP rules and still get registered. A few things that have me concerned about my running BSP in both my current car and especially things planned for the '73:

"No changing of susp. geometry as in pivot points or ball location" (as I read this, bump-steer spacers would be illegal in BSP. Changing the pivot point on the front arms obviously would be out, but EVERYBODY has bump-steer spacers!

"No lightened engine parts." This would include a 13lb flywheel, I suppose!

"Updating and backdating of drivetrain AS LONG AS THE WHOLE DRIVETRAIN UNIT IS RETAINED." So my 81 L28 with '77 5-speed and 74 R200 would not be a UNIT, no?

"No frame rail stiffeners" This is a no-brainer for Z's with rusty floorpans....

"no part of cage passing through firewall." Now, if there are bolts traveling through the firewall from the three-point brace into the dash bar, is that considered "cage passing through firewall"?

There is also some really grey area surrounding removal of bumpers in both the 'street legal' section and the 'body modifications' section.

Those of you who know care to comment?

steve(5 friggin seconds behind BSP leader, but ahead of the C4's)77

Well, hmm...

I don't know the Solo rules.. but I do know a bit about how the SCCA thinks and it isn't always the way you want them to......

Best piece of advice, first and foremost is this, if the rules don't say you can't, that doesn't always mean you can. If a modification isn't specified in the rules, it doesn't mean it isn't covered in the "intent" of the class rules. Get my drift?

No changing of suspension geometry could also mean that shortened springs, camber plates, adjustable bushings aren't legal either.... you'd have to scour the rules for the class and find out exactly what mods you are allowed before you try to figure out what you aren't allowed.

Lightened engine parts would include flywheels... sorry...

You would have to get the rule book to find out the exact update/backdate parameters.... for example, if each of the models of Z are on a seperate spec line, then you can't mix and match parts from say a 240 with a 260 and thence a 280.. you have to stay in the exact model.. ie, any year 240 parts in a 240, any year 280 in a 280... yadda,yadda,yadda...

Frame rail stiffeners would also include plating of any of the stock rails for extra strenght... has to be strictly original OEM type repairs....

Cage passing through the firewall, that doesn't include bolts for mounting plates for bars that end inside the passengers compartment. Only full tubes that pass beyond the firewall would be included in this, such as tubes that pass through the firewall out to the strut towers... If the rules are similar to the Road Racing rules, you can have as many bars as you want in the cage as long as you only use "X" number of mounts to the body... ie, you can put a plate on the floor and mount as many tubes to the main tube that ties to the mounting plate.

Main thing to do is get the rule book and put the car together to fit the rules instead of trying to modify what you have already done to fit the rules....SCCA has some odd reasons for doing what it does and there are a lot of "grey" areas that people do take advantage of...

:devious:

>>>>>>No changing of suspension geometry could also mean that shortened springs, camber plates, adjustable bushings aren't legal either.... you'd have to scour the rules for the class and find out exactly what mods you are allowed before you try to figure out what you aren't allowed...<<<<<<<

FWIW, they are quite specific about what IS allowed...lowered springs, coil-overs, camber plates, spherical bushings, adjustable perches, cut tubes, moved perches, shortened shocks.......

steve77

Well, hmm... then if you are allowed coil-overs and camber plates, the spacers should be one of those that are in the "grey" area the same as they are in the road racing rules.... everyone has them, but to be super critical of the rules they aren't legal unless they are welded to the bottom of the strut tube instead of being bolt in between the strut tube and the steering arm. Mounting points may not be altered, but you aren't altering any mounting points with the spacers technically......

If everyone else has them, use them.....:devious:

Use JB weld around the seam.. Then spray it the same as the tube -- that is how we road racers get around it, I mean it IS "technically" illegal to the letters of the rules, but if you use the JB weld it is "permanent"...

As 2many mentioned, you have entered the grey area, they dont always work out as you would think.

I am still waiting to see if I will get a 1" square tubing framed battery tray through tech -- it is sort of illegal, although the fact that it provides better hold down, it is legal.

You should definitely get a rule book, next time your at an SCCA sponsored AutoX you should be able to pick up a GCR -- in the WDCR, they have them at every event (allegedly!).

-p

Steve,

Less talking, More driving. No one is going to protest in a Regional Championship series. No one will protest in a National, unless you beat them. BSP is pretty safe. There's quite a bit of leeway before your bumped to FP (pretty much a purpose built track car. The Nit pickers will complain about your strut bar and header if you run BS, but only if your beating them.

Seat time, pratices and Xruns. run, run, run. If you use up your first set of Victoracers in a half of a season - your having fun. And that is what your first season is all about. There allot of talent that comes out of the Central Coast area. It's going to take you at LEAST one season to get up to that level. So drive and keep your car mods under your hat.

When your chasing around the country for a National Championship, Then it's time to use the rule book as a scale.

I loved Auto X. It's was getting too costly to run the roadster (ever try to buy an Engine part for a U-20?). I first thought I'd make the Z into a AutoX Beast. But, it's just too damm pretty.

I don't have my rule book with me at work, but I'll give it a shot. I used to run in BSP until earlier this year:

"No changing of susp. geometry as in pivot points or ball location" (as I read this, bump-steer spacers would be illegal in BSP. Changing the pivot point on the front arms obviously would be out, but EVERYBODY has bump-steer spacers!

I believe the rules specifically disallow aluminum bump-steer spacers. i think steel is OK. I don't run bump-steer spacers myself.

"No lightened engine parts. This would include a 13lb flywheel, I suppose! "

Any clutch and I believe any flywheel is allowed.

"Updating and backdating of drivetrain AS LONG AS THE WHOLE DRIVETRAIN UNIT IS RETAINED." So my 81 L28 with '77 5-speed and 74 R200 would not be a UNIT, no?

Technically not legal. But I think that is because your R200. Changing the diff case and gears is not allowed in BSP. Your car should have an R180.

"No frame rail stiffeners" This is a no-brainer for Z's with rusty floorpans....

just fix/replace the rusty parts Don't upgrade them.

"no part of cage passing through firewall." Now, if there are bolts traveling through the firewall from the three-point brace into the dash bar, is that considered "cage passing through firewall"?

I think this applies to all classes. I don't remember seeing any BSP 240's with cages but most FP cars have them and I see bars going through the firewall all the time so this confuses me too. I have chosen to blow this area off for the mean time as the whole cage things looks way to heavy for my tastes anyway.

There is also some really grey area surrounding removal of bumpers in both the 'street legal' section and the 'body modifications' section.

I think this is crystal clear in the rule book. You must leave the stock bumpers and pretty much any other stock body part on in an unmodified condition except for flares to accomodate big tires.

--John

'73 FP 240Z

Old post but I'm new.

The problem isn't the R200 but the '81 L28. The Street Prepared rules allow updating/backdating for cars listed on the same line. In the case of a '73 240 the line reads 240z/260z/280z. Some 280s came with R200s so they are legal to use (most people run R180s for the reduced weight). An '81 L28 would be out of a 280zx which is listed on its own separate line. Locally no one should care. Nationally they won't care unless you beat the fast people.

Wow, CTR, I feel so honored. You chose to reply to MY post on your very first post. Welcome! Nice to have ya!

steve77