caliper/rotor adjustment

[shyfty]

okay, I went back today for the last resort of borrowing back the old calipers. I had to talk him into it, and I had to leave him with the remanufactured, the receipt, and the $30 core charge in cash.

by that point I was probably ready to him to say "gimme the title" and have me submitted to a full rectal examination :tapemouth ...sheesh. I blame it on our economy: people are so money-tight theses days.

anyway....the old one didn't fit back on properly, either. :dead:

.....

really, though...can stuff just "bend" out of whack?

back to that washer idea: the washers are not to go where the caliper mounts, but where the rotor mounts to the hub, but yeah, hardened ones is the only way to go...if I go. should I go? what else is there?

...else being that I did something wrong...?

[LanceM]

If you do go the washer route be sure to use hardened washers, regular steel washers will crush over time in an application like that allowing the caliper to come loose.

[LanceM]

Sorry for the double post, back button got me!

Since the old one doesn't fit right either now I would think that there must have been a spacer or washers there before that have become "lost" in moving things around.

I have mine apart right now and you can see a match in the contact areas between the caliper and the strut mounting area (no rust).

Are the contact areas on the strut the same size as the flats on the caliper? or are they larger or smaller? This might give you an idea if washers were used before. My mounting bolts only have a lock washer on them, do yours by chance have both a lock and a flat? Maybe when you took it apart you "dropped" a flat and thinking it came off the bolt put it on where you would expect it to be, backing the lock washer when in reality it is a spacer!

Just a guess.

Lance

[2ManyZs]

Well... hmmmmm

First thing is, I wouldn't put a washer of any kind between the rotor hat and the hub, you need a good flat surface that the rotor hat mounts all the way around the hub to prevent the rotor from warping from the heat.

The only other thing I can think of right off hand is that the hub isn't seated properly on the spindle and/or the wheel bearings aren't tight enough...that's about the only thing I can think of that would cause the problem:ermm:

[LanceM]

2Many,

I think he is looking to put a washer between the caliper and the mounting ears on the strut to move the caliper outwards. Doing nothing to the rotor, leaving it original and correctly mounted.

Just trying to clarify what I'm seeing as the problem, I may be wrong.

Lance

[shyfty]

over the past two days, I've probably put 12 hours into this problem: tinker, sleep, quick tinker, work, tinker, tinker...and it doesn't help that I'm working 3rd shift this week - try needing brake cleaner at 5AM (when I get off). good ol' WallyWorld. cheap stuff, though.

all right, all right, here it is: everything that is supposed to be set up is set up correctly..double checked against all three manuals.

I've gotten to where I'm just sitting there staring at the assembly...and I think it was getting to me on wanting (read: needing...daily driver) this problem fixed so badly that I started seeing things...bent things.

the strut lobes! they're bent!!

what? no it's hardened steel...can't be.

oh, but yes they are: exactly the 1/8" I need.

okay, so.... how did THAT happen? anybody have a set of huge plyers I can borrow?:stupid:

[LanceM]

That is some thick steel! must have be damage from a wreck in the past! Dropping it on the floor wouldn't have done that. Surely you must see where the rotor was rubbing on the old caliper?? I guess I just wonder how it ever worked??

I wouldn't bother trying to bend them back, that would only weaken the steel more. Sounds to me like time for a new strut housing. If it's a DD I'd hate to think what would happen if the caliper broke loose on a hard breaking situation and went for a ride on the rotor till the break line ripped loose! Either that or washer time.

I have to ask, are you really sure they are bent?? Just looked at mine, you should be able to lay a straight edge across the back of the top ear it is flat and long enough to check.

Thinking more about it, if it is bent then putting a washer there would space out the caliper but it would be crooked compaired to the rotor, leading to some poor breaking and bizzar pad wear I would think.

I understand the need to get it back on the road but IMHO I would get it fixed right, either by having someone build it up with weld and machining it flat or by replacing the strut housing. Not being able to drive it is one thing, not being able to stop it is another!

Lance

[Bambikiller240]

Those mounting "ears" or bosses (at least mine anyway) do have a slight angle to them. It would be nearly impossible for them to get bent without you doing some serious hammering on them. If the original calipers fit and the car rolled without the calipers scraping on the rotors.........something has changed.

Did the car's brakes operate normally (even if worn) prior to you disassembling them?

I would be amazed if you were able to have bent those ears without realizing that you were doing it.

Are you sure that you have installed the "races" for the wheel bearings FULLY into place. If not, that might offset the hub from where it should be located on the spindle. I'm grasping at straws here, but I have to believe that if the brakes operated before you took them apart, the mounting bosses could not be bent unless you took a hammer to them. I have to suspect that something else is amiss.

[shyfty]

of course use a straight edge...duh huh:stupid: :stupid: instead, I used a measuring stick and checked the gap between the bosses and the rotor. BUT,the straight edge confirms that they are not bent. when I check something, I should probably check everything about it, eh?

all right, so beyond my stupidity...yes, the brake worked before removal. I checked the race thing (as in I removed it to see if more clearance was added, but it wasn't...so that must be fine).

anything else? anything else bendable? the spindle, maybe?

if it can be, then wait a sec...I've done another stupid thing: so, I have the car on jack stands, both front and rear, because I'm doing all the brakes at one time (btw, all the others are back on and normal ). maybe I did this backwards, but I lifted the car, and then decided to remove the wheels. the backs, of course, had the tranny to lock them, but here was the dumb part:finger:: the driver's side brake was actually the only one bad, so I did it first..taking everything of completely. that was fine becasue I had someone to hold down the brake. I didn't think about getting to the other wheel when I drained the line of fluid....

what to do? if this caused it, then I feel so stupid now, but....I wedged a wrench between the wheel spoke and the caliper...and the last lug to come off ended up being a good deal troublesome (my weight of 160lbs. pressing down on the lug wrench).

I don't have the specs of the length of the bar and the angles and all that, but with physics and the properties of levers, you know, percentage of work force...

should I already be pulling out my wallet?

[LanceM]

Ok, so the mounting points are correct and not the problem, brake worked before and didn't rub on the rotor.

You had the rotors turned, did you replace the bearings and races or are the original ones being used? (this may have been posted before but I want to be sure)

In either case you must have replaced the seal, is it the correct one? If the ID of the seal is too small it will be butting up to but not going over the seal area of the spindle, everything would appear to tighten down correctly but the rotor would be spaced out. Did you put the seal in the right way? (searching for clues here) the open side of the seal should go towards the grease you want to keep in. Last as was mentioned before, if you replaced the races and the inner one wasnt seated fully this would cause the problem too.

I don't think you bent anything, the wrench or wheel would have broken first.

[carguyinok]

My money is on the rotor not being seated flat all the way around where it mounts on the hub. I have seen them try to sit unevenly and only after torqueing them down do the mount flush with the hub. When you draw the bolts down, it is best to do it in a criss-cross pattern like you would on your wheels, the rotor has to fit tightly over the raised flange on the hub and if not done properly it will either not slide over the flange or will end up at an angle.

Did you do this? It can LOOK seated and not be. I would pull the caliper outa the way. Place the wheel on and crank it down.

You may want to post a bigger photo of the whole thing rotor and all . Hard to tell without seeing.

[shyfty]

has anyone ever had any trouble with their dust shields? well, I have......

that there is the flared lip of the dust shield. it flares outside, toward the hub. if you look in the circle, the flare is bent inward (hard to see, yes, but it is). it bends like this for the whole of the lower half of the opening. I test-fitted it on the hub..it can clear, but with manipulation..the kind of manipulation not allowed by the hub being on the spindle.

I didn't mention this earlier because I thought the difference was negligable, but when the rotor was rubbing, it wasn't pressed as hard to the top of the caliper as to the bottom. this explains that. the safest explanation I think would be that I too hastily pushed the hub on the spindle, denting the dust shield. slow and easy from now on.

so, something was bent...but then, who would have thought of this? crazy :beard:

the hub/rotor is back on, the caliper's back on, everything is hooked/lubed/filled up and it's working great.

thanks for everyone's help!