Transmission Noise

[BillD]

I'm not sure. I've had the car for a month and probably put about 500 miles on it.

Is there a way to get the tranny out without pulling the engine? What do shops charge to do this sort of thing?

[mdbrandy]

Originally posted by BillD

I figured that the whine in all gears except 4th was the give away. It is much less now, but still there so I'll have it checked out.

I'm still worried about the right versus left side of the fill hole. The fill hole I used is on the passenger side (right) of the car just to the rear of what I assume to be the reverse light switch and on the same side as the speedometer cable. Is this correct for a '97 5-speed?

One more question about draining the tranny fluid. Exactly what kind of a tool fits in to the square drive hole in the drain plug?

Thanks,

Bill D.

The fill hole is on the passenger (right side). There aren't that many holes, so it'd be hard to get it wrong :classic: . I believe that one of the best ways to fill a manual tranny is to put in enough lube so that it starts coming back out the hole. Then it's full. The 1970 factory manual lists the lube capacity of the 4-speeds to be 1.5 liters - around 6 pints. I would assume that the ZX tranny is as much or more, but I don't know that. Pictures of the ZX transmission that I've seen make them look a little bigger. And the plug on the bottom can be removed easily with a 1/2" ratchet/breaker bar as kmack suggests.

FWIW. Good luck.

[kmack]

BillD,

pulling the tranny out (w/o the engine) can be done by one person. I know first hand. Put the car on jack stands high enough that you can clear the bellhousing while sliding the tranny out from underneath the car.

There are 6 big bolts that hold the tranny to the engine block and 2 small bolts that bolt to the engine backing plate. 2 bolts for the clutch slave, 4 on the drive shaft, and 2 on the tranny mount. From there it just slides right out.

One word of advice, drain as much of the fluid out before you un-bolt it. And don't put the fluid back in until it is bolted in place. This will make the tranny feel MUCH lighter!

[BillD]

There is a local z-shop that quoted me $1,400-$1,600 for a 5 day turn around that includes pulling the tranny and replacing whatever needed fixing up to a complete rebuild. Never having cracked open a tranny, this may not be a bad deal.

[kmack]

Send me the tranny and I'll rebuild it for $200. Including parts. If you lived nearby, I'd pull it, rebuild it and install it for $750, including a new clutch!

$1400-1600? You'll pay almost that much for an automatic rebuild and those are a lot harder to do than a standard.

FYI, I cut my teeth on standard transmissions by having to put them back together after an engineer took them apart, w/o a book! (research facility) Standards are like a puzzle, they only go together one way and one way only. If a piece is in the wrong spot, you WILL NOT get it back togther.

If this car is not your daily driver, I'd give it a shot. Even if you screw it up, you could still get another rebuilt one for about $700-$800. And you'll still be ahead of the above price. Of course that means dropping and installing the tranny yourself or with the help of some buddies. Free beer and a TV to watch the game?

As long as there are no gears that need to be replaced, which is very seldom but not unheard of, then you're only looking at replacing the bearings and the synchro's. Total parts cost is less than $120 including front and rear seals. Even if you have to replace a few gears, it should still be less than $200.

Some advice if you do decide to tackle this yourself: make a good sized workspace, either on the floor or on a big table. Have enough room that you can layout each piece in sequential order of how it was taken apart. Use a digital camera if you have one and document each step. It may take a while, but for a first time rebuild, it will make it all go back togther almost effortlessly. And if you can get a copy of the microfiche CD from our illustrious Mike "The Admin Guy" Gholson. It has great blow-ups of the transmissions, which are also very useful.

Give it a shot, it's not that bad. I just hate to see people spend awful amounts of money on stuff that they could really do themselves very easily.

[kmack]

FWIW, I rebuilt the tranny in my Explorer this past March. Typical 5-speed Mazda tranny...

I replaced the input shaft, counter-shaft, input shaft bearing, counter-shaft bearings (front & rear), front and rear seals, first and second synchros, clutch & pressure plate, and the clutch slave cylinder.

It took me 2 days to drop it, rebuild it and put it back in and on the road. Total cost was less than $350. A rebuilt tranny from someone else for the Explorer was $750. So I paid myself $400 in labor for 2 days work. Not bad considering I got to play with my daughter during that time also....

[Gav240z]

Now why is it most people you talk to say not to rebuild a gbox or diff? They say there complex etc but I've always thought how so?

I guess it's something I should learn especially if I ever plan on racing Z's at a later stage.

[kmack]

Now why is it most people you talk to say not to rebuild a gbox or diff? They say there complex etc but I've always thought how so?

Now, automatics are hard. You really need to know what your doing there. I've done a few, but only because I had to (work related). It wasn't fun and I wouldn't do another one, even you stuck a gun to my head! You might as well pull the trigger and put me out of my misery....:dead:

[mdbrandy]

Are there any special tools you need to rebuild a manual tranny? Pullers? Presses? Special circlip removers? Stuff like that? I'm pulling the 5-speed out of my 280 parts car this winter to use in my 240, and I'm going to rebuild it or have it rebuilt before using it. I'd love to do it myself, but I've never opened up a transmission (yet). I've got all the normal hand tools, power tools, etc. to do almost any "normal" mechanical work on my car.

Thanks.

[kmack]

You'll need at least the following:

-typical metric wrenches, sockets, etc.

-snap ring pliers

-bearing puller

-assortment of small diameter punches

-a good brass drift punch (or if you're careful you can use steel)

-hammer

-bench vise (this is helpful but I tend to do it all on the floor, more room that way)

I would also recommend getting a garden sprayer and a gallon of "wax & grease remover." I get the remover from a local auto paint supplier for less than $8. This is great for washing down the tranny before you start taking it apart. Get it pretty clean. Then as you start tearing it down, spray all the parts down. Makes it easier to reassemble later so the parts don't slide out of your hand.

A small shop press can be used in place of a bearing puller, or a regular gear puller will work. Most likely you'll be replacing the bearings anyway, so if you tear them up getting them off, it's no big deal. I've used a small chisel the gently work the bearings off before when I didn't have a puller. Just make sure you don't hammer the shaft (that the bearing sits on) and mar the surface.

You'll use the brass drift punch to seat the new bearings. ALWAYS seat new bearings by striking the inside race only! If you hit the outside race (ring), then you will hurt the bearing and it will fail prematurely. You can use a steel punch but becareful not to mar the shaft surface. Brass is a softer metal that won't harm any of the hardened steel that the shafts are made of.

I don't think I left anything out. That should be about it.

[mdbrandy]

Originally posted by kmack

You'll need at least the following:

-typical metric wrenches, sockets, etc.

-snap ring pliers

-bearing puller

-assortment of small diameter punches

-a good brass drift punch (or if you're careful you can use steel)

-hammer

-bench vise

I think I've got all that except the bearing puller (I have a gear puller - would that work?) and a brass "drift punch". I tend to buy the tools I need to do a job if it will save me as much or more $$ than the tools cost, or if I might do it again sometime, since then I have the tools. Sounds like I'll spend a winter weekend taking apart a 5-speed and seeing what happens!

Thanks.

[kmack]

mdbrandy,

The gear puller will work if you're replacing the bearings. If you were to save the bearings I wouldn't recommend it. Soley because a gear puller pulls from the outside edge, which will hurt the bearing. A bearing puller typically uses two plates that slide up under the bearing supporting it as it pulls. I would recommend to anybody tearing apart a tranny to go ahead and replace the bearings unless you for sure that they are in good condition. No sense in having to tear it down again later just to replace that one $15 item you took a chance on....

On the brass punch, like I said if you're careful and focus the punch on just the inside race of the bearing, you can use a steel punch. The brass is nice because you don't have to worry about hurt the shaft surface . Which can be crucial if there is a sleeve or gear that rides on the shaft after the bearing you're putting in place. Just peace of mind really.

Just remember to take you time, pay attention to how things are removed, and lay them out in the order they were removed so that way you just have to follow in reverse when putting it all back together. And please try to finish in 1-2 days. I've know people that started one afternoon, then something came up and they couldn't finish the next day. They waited until the next weekend to try to finish. It's harder to remember things after a stretch of time has gone by. That's why you lay things out in order. Makes it a lot easier.

Good luck on the rebuild and if you have any questions, I'll try to answer them the best I can.