interesting rally photo of 240z

[v12horse]

I found this on ebay and I don't really think the person selling this photo knows what they are talking about because they do not mention that it is a Z. I was just wondering if anyone knew what rally this was and if there was any history on this car. Great looking rally Z though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3241160502&category=14893&rd=1

Regards,

Ben

[Z-point]

Hi Ben,

For myself I do not have any knowledge about this rally car. I think it is a private entranced car with options from a works car. That, you can see if you look at the front bumper. The mud flaps are common for a safari type car.

I never heard of the SLB rally or any sponsorship like Bapal or Marpeixe. But who am I?

(Sport Lisboa e Banfica) is in my opinion the football club of Benfica.

If it really from Portugal, which I do not doubt, I suppose it is a private entrance in the TAP rally of Portugal likely in 1973 or 1974. Maybe Alan will read this and jump in?

[Mr Camouflage]

Heres a better rally car picture

[v12horse]

Thanks. He is the one that told me to ask you. Hahaha. It is a very interesting car. Were there many private entrants that were competitive at the same time the works cars were rallying?

-Ben

[v12horse]

Mr. Camouflage,

That is a nice pic. Is that a works car or a 240 with works options? It has the light bar and the factory works wheels. Beautiful either way. I like to see them in action. Hehehehe. Any info would be great.

-Ben

[v12horse]

The more I am looking at this car Mr. Camouflage, the more I think it is a UK Z because of the turn signals the way they are. It does however have works options. Here is a picture of what looks to be the same car in the 1973 RAC.

Regards,

Ben

[HS30-H]

Ben, I suggested that you ask Guus because he is collecting and classifying 'Privateer' as well as 'Works' cars on his "Victory Lane" table of results.

For my part, I've been limiting my own parameters to 'Works' or 'ex-Works' / 'Works supported' cars. The only exception is Japanese circuit racing, where lots of other interesting stuff went on and lots of privateer teams got hold of ex-Works parts and ex-Works parts.

What I can tell you about your picture of the Portuguese-registered rally car is that it is almost certainly a Privateer car and has no evidence ( from the pic ) of Works or Sports Option parts on it. Even the lights are CIBIE Oscars ( as opposed to Koito ) and it appears to be on stock-looking steel rims. It bears all the hallmarks of a private entry car with a few tweaks to help it on the stages. There were many cars like this around in the early Seventies. Most of them seem to be relatively undocumented in racing history, and you have to go back to search entry lists and results for the events to find out anything about them. Its a shame that we can't hear their stories.

The picture that Mr Camouflage posted is of an entirely different animal. The pic shows Harry Kallstrom and Claes Billstam taking part in the 1973 RAC Rally, and I think this picture was taken on one of the Welsh stages of the rally. This is a full-blown Works car, and was registered "TKS 33 SU 4079". This particular car was running some pretty trick parts for the time, and was just about the ultimate Works rally development of the 240Z before they switched over to the 260Z. It was running the "LY" Crossflow engine with ECGI fuel Injection, and would have been a very fast car.

You can see it is using the homologated bumper with the lowered centre section ( nicknamed the "Drop" or "Monte Carlo" bumper ) which was first used on the 1972 Monte Carlo Rally. The lowered centre section allowed better placement of the spotlamps ( better for cooling, better for light beam spread and better for protection ) and this type of bumper was seen on many of the later Works rally cars.

Don't get confused about the front valance corners and indicator lamps of this particular car. In fact "4079" was almost certainly first fitted with the usual wraparound indicator lenses and front valance corners when it left Japan. However, these were very vulnerable on the stages - and were often broken. This loses points in certain rallies, and I should imagine that they were either replaced with the UK-type after the originals were damaged, or the staff at the UK-base for the Works team ( Old Woking Service Station ) fitted them to avoid inevitable damage to the originals before the car started the 73 RAC. Don't forget that the fact that our UK-market cars had the different valance corners and indicators meant both that the 'proper' wraparound types - generally fitted to the Works rally cars - would have been in short supply here, and that there may have been issues with using lighting / indicators that did not comply with UK Type Approval regulations ( which is why the UK market cars did not have them in the first place ).

Nothing is simple when it comes to the Works rally cars. Nissan built more than 50 of them, and each one had its own spec. and its own life.

All the best,

Alan T.

( PS - this is what happened to a lot of them: )

[Z-point]

Originally posted by HS30-H

What I can tell you about your picture of the Portuguese-registered rally car is that it is almost certainly a Privateer car and has no evidence ( from the pic ) of Works or Sports Option parts on it. Even the lights are CIBIE Oscars ( as opposed to Koito ) and it appears to be on stock-looking steel rims. It bears all the hallmarks of a private entry car with a few tweaks to help it on the stages. There were many cars like this around in the early Seventies. Most of them seem to be relatively undocumented in racing history, and you have to go back to search entry lists and results for the events to find out anything about them. Its a shame that we can't hear their stories.

All the best,

Alan T.

( PS - this is what happened to a lot of them: )

Hi Ben,

I like to point you to our ‘own’ rally forum we have at this club.

Have a look at http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=64

Here you will find many discussions about the rally cars. Even the RAC number 5, your picture, has been discussed there.

Hi Alan, I agree of what you say about the car but how about the ‘mud flaps’ in front of this car?

It looks to me they are safari option? Or aren’t they flaps at all…….:stupid:

If you like to have a view at the victory lane of Datsun check my site below:classic:

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Z-point

Hi Alan, I agree of what you say about the car but how about the ‘mud flaps’ in front of this car?

It looks to me they are safari option? Or aren’t they flaps at all…….:stupid:

Hi Guus,

I can see the flaps - but I think they were almost certainly fabricated from scratch and fitted by the owner / preparer of the car.

The reason I say that is because the front splash-flaps seen on the Works-built Safari Rally cars were actually never available as a Sports Option or race part from Nissan. The ones on the Safari cars were hand-made in Japan by the craftsmen who prepared the cars, and by the Works mechanics who travelled with the cars to Kenya. They gradually developed them to be even bigger during testing / practice to help stop mud and water splashing up and over the front of the car when they forded the many rivers and streams on the rally.

The rear mud flaps ( with "Datsun" in white writing on them ) WERE offered as a Sports Option part - so their situation is slightly different. However, even these had hand-fabricated mounts on the Works cars.

My opinion is that the owner / preparer of the Portuguese car may have seen pictures of the Safari cars, or even developed his own parts without seeing the Safari cars, to cure the same problem.

Surely if there was at least evidence of ONE type of Works part or Sports Option part on the car, then he would have had more? We don't know about the engine and drivetrain parts - but I'm willing to bet that they were very close to stock, or had some 'local' tweaks.

Alan T.