Input shaft spline won't mate w/ clutch F54

[EricB]

...seriously...

two hours... lots of cussing and zip zero nothing.

we raised we lowered we rotated the tranny all to no avail.

F54 block w/new 81ZX non-turbo coupe friction disk & pressure plate correctly installed & lined up with Nissan clutch alignement tool trying to mate with a 77-8Z 5spd.

3 days of renting a cherry picker/engine hoist is getting expensive, so i guess i will drop the tranny after work (i REALLY didn't want to), put the engine in, bolt it up, return engine hoist and later try to reinstall tranny...

Any local Z guy who always happens to get it on the first try care to give me a hand? The car is in Thousand Oaks (CA) off of the 101 west of the San Fernando Valley. If you are that person give me a call at work so we can arrange where/when to meet. My direct line is 805 376 6425

I know it's dirty annoying work but I'll get you a six pack? dinner?

I am willing to give you some $$ for the help if needs be...

-e

[Victor Laury]

Eric,

Does the alignment tool match the input shaft - I mean if one fits, the other should as well. When you rotate the trans, in order to match the splines of the input to the clutch plate, do you have the tranny in gear?

Return the engine hoist and borrow mine if you need it.

Thousand Oaks? Team SlideSquad garage?

[EricB]

The splines on the clutch alignement tool match the input shaft splines and the friction disk splines - yes.

we've tried with the tranny both in and out of gear, switching gears, rolling the car slightly forward or backward in gear to move the input shaft, etc.... it's just being stubborn

victor i'd love to take you up on your offer but the hoist place closes at 5pm and i get off work at 5pm... i'd have to go to dave's garage over lunch, balance the engine on something in the engine bay or take it out entirely, drop it on the ground, disassemble the hoist, return it etc....

I guess all of that is possible... it's just that we're so freaking close - maybe 3/4" from getting that puppy in there - it just won't go... $#%^ &*&^@%*#)%%...

I guess before i return the hoist I should ask is yours the kind that disassembles cause I'd have to put it in the back of a 96 civic coupe to get it to Thousand Oaks (that's my loaner car) also courtesy of "team slidesquad garage"....

let me know...

-e

[240ZX]

Eric, I understand what you are going through. When I installed my late model 5 speed onto my L28 (on an engine stand) I had one hell of a time getting mine to go together also. I checked everything I could think of. I felt confident that all was correct so with everything in place and about 3/4" left (this is the position I could obtain by hand) to go, before obtaining contact between the trans and engine, I used through bolts to slowly and evenly suck it together. All along I was thinking this is not good but it did go together smoothly and I've been driving it for over a year now without a problem. I'm not suggesting this as a recommendation for assembly but, it worked for me. Just don't force anything, it could become costly. By the way I live in Santa Paula, less than an hour away from you. Check your private messages for my phone number.

[2ManyZs]

Eric, if you are getting it within 3/4 inch of it mating up, it sounds like it is hanging up in the pilot bushing or bearing and not the clutch.

Perhaps the tail end of the trans is either too low or too high for the input shaft to line up right with the pilot bushing and it is not allowing the input shaft to go into the pilot bushing. The input shaft needs to be in almost perfect alignment horizonally with the crank for it to go into the pilot bushing, due to the clearance required for the pilot bushing to do it's job.

Just another idea to work with. Moving either the tailshaft of the trans up and down while pushing forward into the engine, or wiggling the front of the engine up or down should allow it to go into the pilot.

Before you do this, just to be on the safe side, double check the pilot bushing and input shaft of the trans for any possible burrs that could cause problems, and put a little dab of grease on the end of the input shaft.

[Bambikiller240]

3/4" is about the depth of the pilot bushing. Are you *sure* that the pilot bushing installed is the correct one? I.D. of bushing compatible with the O.D. of the input shaft? There is little clearance between the input shaft and pilot bushing so everything must be lined up VERY close to perfect, or it will not slide in completely.

Return the cherry picker, and get some blocks of wood to support the rear of the engine. When you are ready to try intalling the trans again, get a transmission jack and use that to install it. When I installed my engine and trans this summer, the trans hung up a bit at the point you are at, but a little wiggling side to side and up/down while supported on the jack got it to slide home within about 15-20 minutes total time. Sure beat having the trans supported by my arms and on my chest.

(guess Keith types faster than I do)

[EricB]

yes i greased up both the input shaft and the splines inside the friction disk and the inside of the pilot bushing

yes i test fit the pilot bushing on the end of the input shaft before putting it into the crank

and BTW checking part numbers and such at Nissan yesterday they are identical from 74-83 - there's only one part number

so since the tranny is a 5spd out of a 77-8 280Z and the engine is out of an 81ZX then that settles that.

I realize we need perfect alignement - I understand how close I am and trust me I've been wiggling and rotating and pushing and hoisting up and down with no results....

do you guys try to line it up with the engine dangling on the hoist by first removing the engine mounts altogether so as to give you more clearance - but then it's a bit of a tight fit to get all the motor mounts bolt back on once in the engine bay....

or do you always drop the tranny.

bolt up the engine

then reinstall the tranny as if you were just doing a clutch job or equivalent...

thanks,

-e

[2ManyZs]

I've usually ended up installing the trans after the engine is bolted down.

One other little trick I have used is to use a short 2x4 layed lenghtwise on top of the bellhousing inside the trans tunnel, then using a piece of rope around the bellhousing, tie the trans up as tight as you can with the rope through the hood latch support. The block of wood will help keep the trans from moving around while you are trying to line the engine up with the trans. That would help to line everything up when installing the engine with the trans already in the car, by holding the front of the trans slighly inclined you shouldn't have to remove the engine mounts.

[EricB]

well i'll just see if i can't drop the tranny, bolt the engine up, disassemble the hoist & return it all in one hour...

then i don't need a hoist anymore...

wish me luck

t-minus 45min and counting until I run out the door to do this

-e

[Bambikiller240]

I install the engine to the point where it is sitting on the front two engine mounts (nuts NOT installed where the mounts pass through the frame) and the rear of the engine is supported with a *slight* downward tilt with 4X4 and 2X4 blocks of wood. Then I use a transmission jack to support the trans at a *slight* upward tilt at the front.

I have never tried to install the engine with the trans already installed in the car. It's only a few extra bolts to drop it and that's what I have done.

Good Luck!

[EricB]

1h30

tranny on the floor

engine bolted to front mounts and with a jack supporting the back part

hoist disassembled and returned

back at work...

thanks guys...

[EricB]

ok so i'm frustrated...

another night after work, another 3hours wasted away...

instead of only being 3/4" out from success we made it down to 1/2", maybe even 1/4"

then it fell back out

yes the splines were engaged for that brief second

so we dropped tranny again - reinserted nissan alignement tool, loosened pressure plate to ensure the friction disk was correctly lined up and re-tightened it again

ran my finger over the pilot bushing and it still feels smooth, i noticed no burrs or mushrooming from all these attempts in vain...

anyone have any objection to me inserting four longer than normal tranny bolts and next time we get close simply and evenly tightening the bellhousing until it goes all the way in?

I am only wary of doing this because i've seen a front wheel drive tranny casing break doing the exact same thing because it was being forced in at the slightest angle away from dead on...

it's just so hard to get a good strong grip under there to give it the forward motion it needs to pop in place...

are the tolerances really always that tight between input shaft and new pilot bushing on a Z? I've done plenty of tranny installs before (on Hondas) but this is the first time on a Z and the first time it is giving me so much trouble...

-e