Watanabe Types?

[NickF]

What is the difference between type A and B? also do the wheels allways have the logo ?

I have 2 sets of wheels 1 with the logo and another set made in Japan but with no logo. To look at, the wheels look the same.

Nick

[HS30-H]

Hi Nick,

The Watanabe eight-spoke wheels have been made for many years ( they started making wheels in the mid Sixties ), and the company themselves ceased trading at one point. Then the original management bought back the rights and the name and everything else, and they have been going from strength to strength. This is a very similar situation to the one that MINILITE ( TECH DEL ) experienced here in the UK.

As the classic eight-spoke design was never patented or copyrighted back in the Sixties, many companies have made their own versions. This occasionally leads to some confusion as to the actual makers of some wheels.

I would think that the wheels you have thataremarked with the Watanabe emblem are definitely made by Watanabe. The ones that do not seem to have any marking could have been made by a number of companies. If they were Enkei eight-spokes ( introduced in 1978, I think ) they would be clearly marked - so you can rule Enkei out. There is a very small chance that they are original Kobe Seiko wheels ( offered in the official Sports Option lists for the 432 / 432R & 240 / 260 ) but these were made from Magnesium and were quite light - so I think you would notice that they were a bit special ( the sizes are also quite distictive ). In many cases, they were not clearly marked with any stamps or casting marks. Without a picture, it would be very hard to identify them.

You asked about the Type "A" and "B" Watanabe identifications for their Eight-Spoke wheels. They also make a Type "R" ( we won't go into the F8 and the other more modern types here ) and these letters basically refer to the STANDARD offset for any particular size. For example, they make a 14 x 6.5j wheel in both "A" and "B" types, and these are identical except for their offsets, so the stamping is a way to identify the offset for a particular wheel without needing to actually measure it. Watanabes usually have the size cast into the reverse, and the Type is stamped onto the front of the wheel on the hub casting near the holes. The offset is different for each sizing and application - so there are hundreds of permutations. The Type "R" is usually a wider wheel with more negative offset ( deeper 'dish' ) and they have a subtly different spoke shape in some sizings.

The Type "R" was often specified in Magnesium, but they HAVE also been made in Aluminium in the past. Watanabe have also made the Type "A" and "B" in Magnesium as well as the usual Aluminium. They have been making wheels for so long, and for so many applications, that anything might turn up. You have to be quite careful not to end up with something that isn't quite suited to the application.

Hope that helps.

Alan T.

[NickF]

Alan

Thanks for the information on the wheels.

heres a snap of the markinge on the unbranded wheel.

Nick

[HS30-H]

Hi Nick,

I don't recognise them from those markings, but maybe somebody else here might?

One thing I would say is that they don't look all that old, at least not to my eye. They look like they are good quality - which some of the older ones can't claim! The fact that they are marked "Japan" might well be a clue to the intended market for the wheel being non-Japanese. Most of the older Watanabes that I have seen do not have any "Made in Japan" or anything like that cast into them, and the older Japanese race-use and Works / Sports Option wheels had virtually nothing on them at all. I wonder if this might have been a wheel that was INTENDED for export markets? Do you think they might be Panasports, or a close relative? The only other Watanabe / Minilite clone that I can think of offhand is the "Black Racing" rim - which usually has a "BR" monogram cast or stamped into the front face. If they were Enkeis they would be clearly marked with the Enkei logo.

Are they 9.5J? I would have thought that the "95" stamp was what this signified. Can't help with any of the others I'm afraid, although I can't make out the characters from the casting marks in the bottom section of your picture. Can you make them out? It might be a casting date from the foundry.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Cheers,

Alan T.

[NickF]

Hello Alan

The circle at the bottom is a casting date.

The Japanese safety mark is on the the front, so I guess made in Japan.

The inside of the rim is painted bright blue.

They weigh 12 lbs.

Nick

[HS30-H]

Nick,

Can you read the casting date? It might be a clue.

That blue-painted inner rim might be a clue to somebody too. That's unusual. It makes me think of the "BR" ( Black Racing ) wheels, which used to come in a kind of French Blue and Bright Red colourways as well as black.

Would be nice to identify them. I'm off to Japan agin on 28th so I might ask the wheel shop guys about them. That blue paint might mean something to them.

I'll see what I can come up with. Fingers crossed for a positive identification:classic:

All the best,

Alan T.