We made the cover!!

[Royce]

Kmack,

I was just there, they now have the Feb '04 issue on the main page. You want the Jan '04 issue. They don't have the complete article but you can see some of the info by clicking on Issue Details then in the Back Issue Search box select Issue January '04.

I have a question, what is with the front turn signalsf? I see the red cover car and gold car in the article both have the 240Z valance with the turn signals filled in and then rectangular turn signals attached to the bottom of the bumpers. Is this the way they came in Europe? But then the two cars look way too similar to be by chance. I am wondering if they didn't just modify the photo and change the color for the cover.

Mark, thanks for pointing out the article. Always good to see the Z in print!

[v12horse]

mmagnus, I knew what the point of the article was, but in my opinion it was muttled with false information. Also, as far as design, the Z does resemble a bit of a e-type with the long hood and there are some other cues to other cars on parts of the car, but all in all in it is something very unique. The Z may have some european ties, and it was designed with a larger interior to accomodate taller people, but the whole packeage is very Japanese. like I said, stylish, reliable, ergonomical, and compact. Here is a question for you mmagnus. Is the new z or any of the other z's after the first generation worthy of this same treatment in this article? Would non-car enthusiasts still think it was a jag or a prancing horse? I would think not, but I would like to see what you say. The new Z is nice to look at, but I does not remind me of the 1st gen Z at all. People may disagree on this one with me, but I really feel that no matter what Z they make, it will never commemorate the original.

Zrush, you say that the z is referred to as the poor mans corvette. I thought that was the opel. Was it the Z too? Also, were all of the sports cars of Japan at the time very small? What about th Toyota 2000gt? Besides its price tag and low production number I don't think it would be referred to as a shoebox. I say this because I have seen one up close, but never sat in one so I could be miskaten. Also, it was made in 1967, not the early 70's. I do agree with you that the Z was ahead of its time. (thought you implied that)

Royce, yes the turn signals were not in the valence like the rest of the imports and home market cars for the european spec cars. I believe that the Z on the cover was for a different article. The one for buying a inexpensive sports car at 5000 pounds. I do not have the mag in front of me so I can't tell you right off the bat.

Anyways, I am just being an opinionated butt and I am not trying offend anyone.

Regards,

Ben

[Zrush]

v12horse

I have always heard that the Z was the poor mans corvette. At least thats what all my old school Chevy friends say. I've forgotten about the opel, but I can see where that phrase would fit with that car. Don't see to many of those around anymore.

[mmagnus]

Ben,

Let me clarify my point. The reason I mentioned the new Z and 300ZX was reiterate was the article was saying as do many car experts say about the later model Z's. With regards to the late 90's Z car, the only reason it was discontinued was that the sales fell off becuase no body was going to spend $40k on a japanese sports car and Nissan could not produce it cheaper due to the inflation of the Yen. Subsequently the discontinued production. Now the point here is that if the 96 Z had a prancing horse on it, or a prouncing cat, THEN it would be considered a car that people would pay $40k for, even though its performance was comparable to cars twice the price. This is what the writer of the article was trying to say.

Finally, no I was not trying to compare the late model Z cars to the 240Z. One thing I will agree with you on is that the 240Z is the best car Nissan ever built. They completely lost focus from 1979 onwards. The Z was no longer considered a "good deal"

anymore and was considered an expensive car in the 80's and 90's. Completely contrary to what Mr.K was striving for and why the Z car was then, and still is today a very desirable car. As far as design goes, well that is very subjective. I cant stand next to my 1970 Z and say it looks "Very Japanese". Comparing it to the Toyota is a little bit of a stretch. You couldnt say the Z nor the Toyota 2000 was indicitave of what was coming out of Japan in the late 60's and early 70's.

The bottom line here is we agree to disagree on this article. The good news is we both respect the car and continue to enjoy its legacy.

Mark

[v12horse]

Well said Mark. My apologies. I see that I did stir this thread up a bit, but as you said, we both love the Zcar and the legacy it left behind. From this I only hope that Z enthusiasts such as you, myself, and everyone who loves the Z for that matter to portray the Z as accurately as possible by minusing the falicies that detract from its true history(if that is even possible).

I could not agree more with the things that you said Mark.

Take care,

Ben

[mmagnus]

Thank you for your input. I always like a good debate, especially when it is about something I really care about.

All the best

Mark

[daddz]

Thanks to mmagnus for posting the link; the website is pretty well organized. I have been purchasing copies of this magazine (I think it was formerly "Thoroughbred and Classic Cars"?) as well as Classic and Sportscar since the early '90's. It is interesting to read the European perspective with regard to the Z cars from 1970 onwards and especially now that the cars have attained "classic" status.

datto,

Ben was correct in stating that a proper E-type Jag would blow off an early 240Z. By 1969 the E-type was reduced to a reasonably quick car but, not in the same vain as an early Series 1 XKE. To compare a '69 XKE, a proper frame of reference might be a 280ZX 2+2! In having a 3.8 or 4.2 Inline 6 capable of producing 265bhp (SAE gross) attached to a body that weighed between 2464 and 2600lb with a final drive ratio of 4.17 you can rest assured that a stock 240Z wouldn't have a chance.

[LEE240ZPERTH]

Thanks for the lead on the magazine guy's I'll be off to the Newsagents in five minutes

BTW the indicators in the UK are situated (normally) on top of the front bumper in the grill area, this is due to legislation, the wrap arounds in the valance you see in the US and Australia were deemed to low and were therefore a safety issue.

zrush

The Opel GT was known as a baby corvette by many in the UK, many people didn't know what it was at all (it was never imported officially in to the UK)

The lines of the Opel are IMO very similar to that of a Corvette (I actually owned a couple of these cars, I seemed to remeber it handled really well but the performance sucked, it had a 1900cc engine but no get up and go, the funny thing is they actually made a 1100cc version which must have performed like a drunken slug, what were opel thinking!

Anyway the results of the article (yet to be read ) don't surprise me, I would say most people not in the know about cars would come up with the more exotic marques when looking at a 240z without badges.

There is a lot of ignorance in the world about our cars, my car is just about at the end of an extensive ground up restoration, when I told a few of the guy's at work I was restoring a Datsun they just about wet their pants with laughter:mad:

Let's see how they laugh when I park my car next to their's:classic:

Right, off to add to my mag collection

Lee

[mmagnus]

Lee,

I get the same response here in the US when I tell someone I am restoring a Datsun. Usually the older guys (40's an up) remember the cars and can appreciate it, but when I explain to someone in their late 20's or 30's they realy dont see the appeal.

Mark

[v12horse]

I know what you guys mean about the whole anti-old Z thingie with other people. Many of my friends just don't understand what I see in the old Z's. They say,"well, the old Z is cool, but you like the new one better, right Ben?." I give them the very serious, "uhhh, no." They just don't get it. They think that I am in love with this aweful looking woman, yet I think they are the ones that are wrong because she is the sexiest of them all. Why are cars always referred to as one of the opposite sex??? Oh well. Anyways, the point at hand is that one of my friends dad's who is a major car buff was ecstatic when he found out that I got the Z. I let him drive it, and in that moment it seemed as if it was 1974 again because he had the Z going 85 mph in third and the mile wide smerk on his face was priceless. Not something I have done, but it is one of the highlights I have had with the car. The car buff said that in 1974 he wanted to get a Z, but they were a little out of his price range at the time, so he bought a bright green X1-9. He loved that car.

I know how you guys feel about the whole thing with old Z's and the criticism it gets from "car enthusiasts." Those people should realize that the Z paved the road for sports cars to come, especially for all the Japanese sports cars now because without the influence of the Z, being the first affordable GT sports car for the country, the newer cars may not have existed. This could start many new topics, like, people should know their history? Oh well, keep up the great posts.

Regards,

Ben