BAD NEWS-Help!!

[Zlishous]

Well I was trying to find a leak (from inside engine compartment to passenger pan), while i was looking I found a pen sized rust hole behind my battery near the wheel well. I know people who can weld (cheaply) but I am notsure how to proceed. One of the first things I would like to do is pull the engine (for working room and might as well rust proof and paint it now), i am a newbie when it comes to mechanics, are there detailed instructions anywhere that I can follow to pull an engine? Once that is done any suggestions to attack my damage? I am bummed!! The rest of the battery tray looks fine. Suggestions??????

Thanks,

Zlish:tapemouth :tapemouth :tapemouth

[2ManyZs]

If you don't have it already, since you say you are new to mechanics, I would suggest you use the bookstore to pick up a copy of 'How to restore your Z-car". It will give you a lot of pictures and help with just about anything you will be doing with your car.

First, don't bother trying to pull your engine if you don't have access to an engine hoist. Sorry, but you will end up doing a lot more work and cursing if you don't have the right equipment. There is a section in the book about pulling the engine that should be able to get you through it if you can get a hoist of some type. 2 people can pick up the engine if you had to but it isn't easy, I've done it and I'm not going to do it again.

As far as the rust is concerned try to cut out the rusted area and replace it with new metal, if you try to put a patch over it it won't last. You need to get out the rust so that it won't keep on rusting. You may need to take out the battery tray to fix it, it isn't hard to do, and when you are done you can either weld it back in or bolt it in however if you bolt it in you may need to pull the front fender to get to the nuts, unless you weld the nuts to the body.

As far as your water leak, did you check the wiper seal on that side? It could also be a seam in the tray under the wiper panel has separated or you may have some rust under there. You should check under there to be sure. It could also be a hose going to the heater core too, or the core itself. Just giving you a few more places to look if you didn't find the leak.

[AxtellZ]

Ditto to what Keith has said. 2 more things:

i have heard Wick Humble's book may not be available, at least from Amazon (i do have 2 copies, if someone needs 1)

also, depending on your longterm plans/budget etc. You may look into POR-15, or Eastwood's "rust encapsulator"

both are epoxy primer systems that seal the metal extremely well. My 73 had surface rust over the battery due to an idiot (me) leaving a battery charging for way too long- boiled over & ate paint & metal DUH! I cleaned-etched-painted with the POR-15 and it is in really nice shape still. For holes all the way through though, there's no substitute for replacement.

Good luck, JSA

[2ManyZs]

Well, the POR -15 and the Corroless from Eastwoods will work as long the rusted out piece isn't in a structural location. The way you describe it it sounds as if it is near where the inner fender is welded to the firewall, if it is it would be wiser to weld in a patch there, since it is close to a weld seam. The sealer would be better on a piece that hasn't as much to do with the structural integrity of the chassis, or hasn't rusted completely through. If there is a hole there now the you may find that the rust has spread out and when you get to fixing a small hole it turns into a bigger one by the time all the rust is gone. Since I can't see it you will have to use your judgement as to how to proceed.

Use the Z-car Bookstore here to link up with Amazon about the availability of the book, and let's help Mike keep this site for us to use.

[Royce]

I haven't tried to treat rust but have heard good things about POR15! There is quite a bit of room on that side of the engine bay so you could do quite a bit of work with the engine in. But that is your judgement call.

If you do decide to pull the engine, you need a hoist! If you want to make the drive up here you would be welcome to use mine, but it is a big old beast of a cherry picker! You should be able to rent one if you don't have access to one. Also helps to have a load leveler attachment, allows you to manipulate the angle of the engine while it is coming out. I haven't tried the two person technique and don't think I would attempt that, Jeremiah you are the man! Also, I use tow of those tie straps with the metal slip adjuster that you can get at OSH, Home Depot, etc. wrap one around the front of the carbs and front of the hump in the oil pan. The other strap goes around the rear of the carbs and the rear of the hump in the oil pan. Watch out for soft vacuum, fuel, and water lines.

Just pulled the engine out of the 260 parts car last week. Here is what I remember...

- Disconnect battery

- Drain water from radiator and block drain plug (near rear of block under manifolds)

- Drain oil (leave filter on to prevent crap from getting in)

- Remove fan shroud and radiator (I leave the fan on)

- Remove air cleaner, vacuum line to brake booster and disconnect choke cables.

- Disconnect alternater and coil to distrib wires

- Disconnect fuel supply and plug lines.

- Remove starter and unbolt engine from trans.

- Hook up engine hoist

- Remove bolts/nuts from motor mounts

- Pull that big, long heavy engine out.

I am sure I have forgotten something but that should cover most of the details. Next depending on how thorough you want to be you may need to remove the hard lines or just paint over them!

Questions, comments and corrections always welcome!

Have fun!

[Zlishous]

Thanks all! I think I will rent an engine puller and just get the whole engine compartment done correctly! Better now than more damage later, thanks again for advice,

Zlish

[Bill.Oakes]

Hi Guys,

I'm getting close to pulling my first engine out (helped someone once before).

What are your thoughts on pulling it with/without the trans attached?

thanks

-Bill

[2ManyZs]

I have never tried to pull both at once, since they are so long. You can do it but it isn't easy with the amount of room you have to work in, plus you would have to have the car off the ground quite a bit to be able to let the trans. swing down enough to get the front of the engine to clear the radiator support. I usually drop the trans. first with a floor jack, then pull the engine. Or tie the front of the trans. to the hood latch bracket and pull the engine by itself. You can do both but it will be a lot easier on the knuckles to do them one at a time. Not only that but you would have to lift the engine so high to get the trans. to clear it would have go above your head almost, unless you wanted to try to drop the engine and trans. out the bottom the way they do old Mopars, and lift the chassis over it, again not an easy task. Hope that helps...

[kmack]

I've pulled the engine w/ and w/o the trans. Personally, I like pulling both at the same time. (I've usually needed to have both out at the same) It really doesn't take much longer if you pull both.

Disconnect items per Royce's list but add:

remove fan/clutch

remove driveshaft

remove shifter

disconnect speedo cable

loosen trans mount bolts.

Once you get the engine mount bolts out and have the hoist hooked up, then drop the trans mount and let the tranny hang. Make sure you have the hoist attached to the engine so that it picks up the front of the engine first and lets the rear hang a bit. I usually find it's easier to push the car away from the hoist rather than pull the hoist/engine/trans away from the car.

You'll need to pick up the engine high enought to clear the oil pan above the radiator mount. Once you've cleared that, get someone to hold up the back of the tranny as you move the assembly away from the car. That's about it. Reassembly is just the reverse. Plus I find it's easier to attach the tranny with engine out of the car rather than while it's sitting on my chest under the car!

[Royce]

I haven't pulled them out together but I have put them in together. I was putting the engine in myself and just couldn't get the trans lined up so I pulled the trans and put them in together. Anyway, this is when the load leveler attachment really comes in handy, I wouldn't do it without one. I took off the hood and the fan then put a jack under the rear of the car until I got the trans to clear then you can lower the back. I would expect removal to be similar, just get the load secured on the hoist before you start disconnecting the trans mount or lifting the rear of the car.

[2ManyZs]

Well Bill, as you can see we all have different opinions. Guess it will be up to you to decide which way you want to go.

Royce is right, the load leveling attachment is a very handy item to have, it saves a lot of time, and holds the engine in any angle you wish, it also will save you from having any nicks and gouges in the paint if you have just detailed the engine compartment.

One little trick I use when I'm installing the engine to help line up the tranny is to take a block of wood (2x4 or 4x4) and place it across the top of the tranny in the tunnel, place a floor jack under the tranny and jack it up so it will hold the trans still, then use a rope or chain around the bottom of the tranny up through the hood latch bracket and secure it. This makes it so the tranny isn't moving around while you are trying to line them up, a lot of times one person can do it by themselves. With the tranny moving around it almost takes 2 people to put them together, one on the trans and one to work the engine around.