Lead footed B's.

[Alfadog]

Originally posted by datsun260z

Speed Kills.

Guns kill, too. That ad campaign is ridiculous and as Datto-Zed pointed out, complete bollocks. All the speed cameras and millions of dollars put into advertisements hasn't really worked, has it.

The truth of the matter is driver training is what the governments need to put (more) effort into, and they KNOW IT! Personally I went to a defensive driving course as I know I'm not skilled (although admittedly better than some) and I don't want my car to get damaged, let alone myself...

[260DET]

Yeh, you're right the 'speed kills' mantra is utter bullship. No seriously, that campaign is insulting to any remotely intelligent and free thinking person. You drive according to the circumstances, just like you make personal life decisions according to the circumstances.

I hate, that is HATE, governments that try to brainwash.:mad:

[1 Bravo 6]

True, the ad campaign, the speed guns and cameras have failed MISERABLY.

BUT

You can't get away from the fact that the MESSAGE is also true.

When you look at the stopping distances at 60, 70 and 80, even blind freddy can see truth in it. (Refer the ad with the kid running onto the street chasing his toy plane).

The ads depicting accident scenes,--the school girl hit by a car,----the young bloke sitting in the gutter full of anguish and despair,-----THAT'S HOW IT IS IN REALITY. I know, I've seen it first hand.

Speed traps at the bottom of a hill ??? Mates, that's what the big foot pedal is for----to slow you down. No excuse.

Speed guns and cameras ???. No problem at all. Unless you speed.

Speed DOES kill. Every time there's a race at Bathurst you'll see cars spin out. And those drivers are PROFFESSIONALS. So what chance has the every day bloke behind the wheel got.

Part of the problem is our belief in our own individual invulnerability. "It'll NEVER HAPPEN TO ME". CRAP.

Rick.

[Mr Volvo]

Doing 80 in a 60 zone when there are people around probably is dangerous and will increase your risk of an accident.

But what about 103 in a 100 zone?

I have had 3 friends in serious accidents in the last year (turned 18 1 yr and a bit ago now). And all have been caused by poor skills and poor judgement.

A female friend hit a practacly stationary car doing somwhere about 90k's an hour. After a car had flashed its lights at her to warn her of the trouble up ahead. This is the same girl who would sms people on her phone just days after getting her liscence. A driver paying more attention wouldnt run into someone on a large wide road full stop, but especially after someone had warned her of danger.

Another mate swerved to avoid a fox (why i ask?) and overcorrected which resulted in him hitting an embankment and rolling his new corolla 4 times. He wasn't speeding at all, just got caught in the gravel.

And finally I know a guy that got t-boned by a taxi when he turned right in front of it at an intersection in the melbourne CBD.

The point of these stories is that not one person was doing over the speed limit when they had their accident, although all of them were entirely avoidable incidents if they had been paying more attention, had the required skills, or were driving APPROPRIATELY for the conditions.

Speed does kill, the difference between hitting a tree at 103 and 100 though is tiny, the difference between reacting quickly at 100 and having a 'narrow escape' and being just too late however is MASSIVE. And paying attention and taking into acount road conditions will always help more than dropping 3 km's.

Oh, on the subject of women drivers (were we discussing them or am i just using this to tell another story?) I was going to the beach the other day with this girl driving (I offered!) and she locked up the breaks stopping at an orange light. We skidded for about 15 metres. She couln't see that she had done anything wrong! Now where did all that driver training go? Oh, that's right most people never got any!

[TomoHawk]

Mates,

I'm on the north coast U.S.A (Ohio)., and it's winter now, so the roads are covered with snow, ice and other slippery stuff. And I STILL see people doing 45 mph on a 25 or 30 mph street! Then you wonder why they rear-ended a car trying to stop for a stop sign? Same thing on the highway- the sign says "speed LIMIT 60 MPH" but they think it means "safe limit." In the newspapers, EVERY winter, I see a big article trying to point out the dangers of winter driving and why you should slow down and look far ahead of where you ARE, so you can plan your actions. In fact, the article also mentions that when dad conditions exist, you can get cited for driving at the posted limit! I'm thankful for those few, RESPONSIBLE truck drivers out there on the highway, who slow down enough to get all the traffic to slow. I'd rather be a little late than PERMANENTLY LATE.

[datsun260z]

Mr Volvo raises a good point about doing a few kmh's over the limit.

With these increasingly accurate speed traps the police have lowered the tolarence from 10kmh over the limit down to current levels (which I dont know).

Now with a speedo that is only accurate to 10% plus or minus under ADR rules I could be driving over the limit without realising it. Put into the equation hills (accelerate to go up brake when going down) and suddenly I am watching my speedo more than the road in front of me.

Now surely that is unsafer than me doing 10% over the speed limit but with full awareness off the road around me.

[Ben]

Hypothetical situation on the speedo accuracy angle:

1970 240Z (20mph speedo)

Road works/school zone (25km/h limit)

Busted for speeding @ 30km/h

Win or lose?

Yes, it's a joke.

[Murph]

Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6

True, the ad campaign, the speed guns and cameras have failed MISERABLY.

BUT

You can't get away from the fact that the MESSAGE is also true.

When you look at the stopping distances at 60, 70 and 80, even blind freddy can see truth in it. (Refer the ad with the kid running onto the street chasing his toy plane).

The ads depicting accident scenes,--the school girl hit by a car,----the young bloke sitting in the gutter full of anguish and despair,-----THAT'S HOW IT IS IN REALITY. I know, I've seen it first hand.

Well it is quite true, the faster car will take longer to stop and the slower car may safe a life. However, there are MUCH more important factors that are going to save many more lives than lower speeds. I.e. driver training so the driver knows better how to avoid the situation and or control their vehicle in that situation.

I know I'd feel a lot safer on a road at 80km/h with trained drivers rather than on a road at 60km/h with some of the *&%^ that drives on our roads now.

Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6

Speed traps at the bottom of a hill ??? Mates, that's what the big foot pedal is for----to slow you down. No excuse.

You missed my point, which was that despite saying that speed cameras will only be put at black spots, where they might just slow people down and save lives, they instead get put in places where they generate maximum revinue. Eg. at the bottom of a dead straight road going down a hill, or on a 5km long dead straight section of highway, where in neither case there has ever been a death or is there a safety risk. Go figure.

Originally posted by 1 Bravo 6 Speed DOES kill. Every time there's a race at Bathurst you'll see cars spin out. And those drivers are PROFFESSIONALS. So what chance has the every day bloke behind the wheel got.

Part of the problem is our belief in our own individual invulnerability. "It'll NEVER HAPPEN TO ME". CRAP.

Rick.

Keep in mind the race driver pushes much higher limits than you or I would on the road. It comes down to knowing ones limits and staying well within them.

I suppose that's where a large part of the problem lies. You average Joe doesn't know his or her limits if they've never expereinced them, or come close to them. Of course something that should be learned off the road!

Originally posted by TomoHawk I'm on the north coast U.S.A (Ohio)., and it's winter now, so the roads are covered with snow, ice and other slippery stuff. And I STILL see people doing 45 mph on a 25 or 30 mph street!

Was driving my mates skyline this morning on the highway and it was raining that hard that I ended up having to slow to under 50km/h to see anything. Still had some wanker come flying up behind me and almost rear end me because he was going so fast and couldn't see $^!#. :eek:

Originally posted by datsun260z Now with a speedo that is only accurate to 10% plus or minus under ADR rules I could be driving over the limit without realising it. Put into the equation hills (accelerate to go up brake when going down) and suddenly I am watching my speedo more than the road in front of me.

Now surely that is unsafer than me doing 10% over the speed limit but with full awareness off the road around me.

Bingo! We have a winner.

[1 Bravo 6]

Hey there Datto,

You know mate, you and I are actually AGREEING on the main point. The LACK of proper TRAINING. We're just using different words to say the same thing.

Now it's my guess that you're not an old fart like me and from your comments I take it that you know a fair few younger drivers. Have any of them done a defensive driving course or, better still, an Advanced driving course? Perhaps you could suggest those courses to your inexperienced friends.

Not only would I recomend the courses but I believe they should be compulsory for all newly licensed drivers.

Rick.

[Murph]

Agreed.

I'm 22 and do know a lot of drivers in the 18-30 bracket.

Quite a few of them have done advanced and defensive driving courses, although I haven't as yet. However it's certainly right up there on my "when I have some money" to do list. Namely because I'd like to learn more about car control and also because I realise that I'm not the greatest behind the wheel.

[TomoHawk]

That's great idea. I'd like to take one too, someday.

Sarcastically, I sometimres Ii think these courses just give the drivers a little'over-confidence' in their ability, and they end up thinking they can handle anything. So they drive faster, and take more chances.

Until they crash.

Just some food for thought.

[Alfadog]

Yes that's exactly true also. The course I did stressed A LOT that this was purely DEFENSIVE driving, not OFFENSIVE. We did not learn how to drag the cars or go sideways, we learnt braking techniques, avoiding objects and making decisions when you're driving (forward-thinking).

Advanced Driving courses are a little different however and I do suspect a lot of drivers go out after doing that with a somewhat over-confident attitude like you said.