240z restoration standards

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Ed

Couldn't we start another forum with nothing but pictures of factory markings? It would be an excellent source for those who are doing that factory restoration.

In order for the pictures to have any validity it would have to be KNOWN with 100% absolute assurance that the car pictured was not damaged, repaired or modified in any way. Otherwise it's all hearsay. This would be virtually impossible to verify in a open internet forum. i.e. How many of us are original owners of our 30+ year old cars and can document the entire history of said car?

FWIW, No 1972 240Z's were imported with A/C from the factory, it simply was not available. Dealers added A/C units to vehicles, they can at best be described as "factory authorized".

While the roof and quarter panels were welded together, the "seam" was "leaded in" (small amounts of bondo may have been used on top of that) at the factory and the seam was not visable on new cars, and should not be visable on a low mileage, well kept vehicle. It generally only appears after years of chassis flex, or damage to the car.

[richard1]

With respect to your expertise:

Yes, the seams are visible and not filled with bondo as you suggest. Futhermore, spotwelding spots can be noticeable on some body panels. None of these fatory production flaws can be detected on a photo. They can be observed under very close examination.

About A/C suppliers for 72 Z, could you be more explicitabout your sources. There is no reference to A/C unit operation in the owners manual and nothing about it in the original parts catalog I have,so I believe you could be right about the units having been installed at dealeships.

[Bambikiller240]

First, I'm not calling myself an "expert", but I consider myself somewhat "knowledgable" on 240Z's, having owned and taken several apart and carefully put them back together. I've also read quite a bit about them. However, there are certainly more knowledgable folks than I out there.

All seams where body panels are joined by welding have some sort of filler to smooth the transitions. On the Z they are (were) filled with lead (an "old school method" that is becoming a lost art). Beyond that I said bondo MAY have been applied as well. I have seen some spot weld marks on certain body panels, generally very "low" on the body where they would be difficult to see by the casual observer. I wouldn't call these spots "production flaws" since they occur on every car and could have easily (and would have) been covered IF Nissan had desired to do so. These cars were not meant to be "perfect" like one would expect of a low volume specialty car. They were being built quickly, in quantity, and to a price point that made them affordable.

I can only tell you that I have owned 3 240Z's since 1973 and that none of them showed a visable "seam" where the quarter panel joins the roof. I have not examined them with a microscope, but I've looked carefully by eye, & I haven't seen it on my cars, though I have seen cracked paint/filler in this area on 240Z's owned by other people.

Regarding what was and was not available from the "factory", there was only one option from the factory in 1972 for US market 240Z's, and that was the Automatic Transmission. I know this as I shopped for and bought one when they were new. I refer you to www.ZHome.com as that site and it's owner/operator Carl Beck can tell you exactly what was available on 240Z's from the factory. Generally dealers sourced the "Factory Authorized" options from several sources. None of my 240Z's ever had A/C so I cannot tell you any of the brands involved, but I'm sure others with cars fitted with these units can tell you.

[v12horse]

As far as the judging goes, it really depends on the competition(if this is at a Z show, or any show) and who the judges are(spectators or judges). As mentioned before, they are looking for originality mostly. My car is not in perfect shape or even great shape by any means, but because it is almost 100% original I won at that show. Another factor was that there was not that many 260z's, but there were a few comparable to mine. I have seen some Z's restored to original condition, but they had some not as original looking reproduction parts. Those can be a no no. I try to find really good reproduced parts or originals. I think it would be so hard to do a concours car because the paint and protecting coats all have to be original. I don't know where you would find that stuff, but I haven't looked either. Good luck on the resto's mdbrandy.

Bambikiller, you said that no 240's came with factory ac. Do you know if this is true for the 260? I have heard that the 260 was the first year with factory ac, but I am not certain.

Thanks,

Ben

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by v12horse

Bambikiller, you said that no 240's came with factory ac. Do you know if this is true for the 260? I have heard that the 260 was the first year with factory ac, but I am not certain.

Thanks,

Ben

Hi Ben:

Yes, indeed. The 1974 260Z (US market) was available with factory installed A/C. First year is was available installed at the factory.

Carl

[v12horse]

Thanks for the info Carl. We should get together some time and talk Z's. Your town is only 5 minutes away from me. Anyways, take care.

-Ben

[26th-Z]

I have been reading along with you guys and want to comment. Carl brings up several valid points, the first of which cannot be overstated. These cars are assembly line cheap and the construction is by no means considered a crafted art. They were built quickly and economically. All sorts of things vary from one chassis to another. The seam between the roof and the quarter is lead filled and as such should not ever require any other filler. Lead IS the filler.

I am doing a thorough job of "carcheology" as best I can as I take Her Majesty the 26th apart. I have a real original car, very unmolested (until now). What do you guys want pictures of? I have tons of pictures. Every time I get into one of these discussions, I learn something so shoot. I have a great example to talk about.

[mdbrandy]

Originally posted by richard1 About A/C suppliers for 72 Z, could you be more explicitabout your sources. There is no reference to A/C unit operation in the owners manual and nothing about it in the original parts catalog I have,so I believe you could be right about the units having been installed at dealeships.

If you read the judging criteria attached previously for the stock class, it says:

A/C must be factory installed except 240Z which may have same A/C as installed by dealer, i.e. ARA or Frigid King, with basic York compressor.

FWIW.

[richard1]

Thanks Mark. Now my question has an answer.

[Bambikiller240]

Interesting that ZCCA allows one dealer installed option (A/C) in the "stock" class, but deducts points for other dealer installed options. Seems a bit :stupid: to me. IMHO consistancy should be strictly maintained in a "stock" class or it isn't really "stock".

[26th-Z]

I forgot to mention kats' website. Lots of real good pictures and info http://www.geocities.jp/datsunz903/