JimmyZ

I'm sure we would probably drink each other under the table and have to call some of you guys or get a cab. Didn't mean to take such a simple thread on such a tangent. Sorry guys. In cases like this it is best to respectufully agree to diasgree. Not to open up another can O' worms but it seems many things work like this. There's a lady at work who is on a completely opposite end of the spectrum regarding politcal views. Sure, we tussle a bit but at the end of it all we are great friends and respect each other. Funny thing is that we have ended up shaping each others views a little as a result. Regarding the original subject of the thread...In Florida, Central Auto Parts can get a set of premium points. Can't remember the name on the box but wow! Real quality still exists! I'll get another set and post the name. The body on this set was copper plated. The contact faces were doughnuts, not the typical chrome plated looking caps which cheapies use. These were a different material, possibly the coveted platinum/iridium material?? It would be a good idea for the sake of the board to make this thread a list of places and part#'s for good/real points. Jim

Looks to be wired right except I can't see if condenser is connected on side. Just going through a couple obvious things... You tested for spark from the coil's lead directly right? (As opposed to a plug wire) Testing at this point doesn't require cap or rotor and tells you right away if the points/condenser are doing their job. Is the dizzy plugged all the way in? Does the cam rotate when the engine turns? Did you set the gap right?? (approx) .020" when cam has points in the open position. Not that it makes much diff but did you set the gap when installed on the engine? Set again if not so. In a pinch cereal box cardboard can be used for gap setting. Is the condenser's lead attached to the plastic block's stud? (block in 1:30 position) You might have forgotten to reconnect this. Try wiggling the single harness lead on the spade. (1:30 position) It might not have a good connection. If so clean spade and pinch female conn gently with pliers for a tighter fit. (With female off of course) The wire to the points (from said block) looks a bit old. Did you take it off to check for bare spots/continuity? Might just want to make a temporary wire to test if this one has bit the dust. That sharp bend at the points may have caused a break. 2c Jim

Notice I'm not saying EI is crap? It has great merit and I have very little against it except what has already been discussed in previous posts. This is the last post on this thread I'll make for you Ztrain because it's pointless and wasteful to argue like this. My re-bushed distributor does just fine with points.Like I said.. "Singer sewing machine". So what you're telling me is that the insertion of more electronics in modern cars is a better thing? That mechanical systems became obsolete because electronics were simply better??? My family had an IH diesel tractor with completely "0" electronics save the distributor for gas start. (1940's TD-6 crawler tractor) When sold a few years ago it had only needed routine fuel filter and oil changes over 60 years...Period. Great machine! Fast forward to 2006. The company I work for purchased an International Harvester straight truck (w/DT466E) and had the thing in the shop at least once every two weeks. The newer trucks will have electronic valves... Yes electronically controlled valves! The IH shops are wringing their hands in delight thinking about the dough that will roll in. We average $1000-$2000 per shop visit which now only occurs once every 5-6 months. It's not uncommon for a brand new truck to get 80 miles and have trouble. The Duraspark box and pickup coil on my Ford died eight years after the car was on the road. (At different times) Trust me, they cost more than a few sets of points. (Wasn't too bad though) GM's HEI is nice and cheap at least. Think I bought the power transistor/brain for 13.99. They have decent lifespans too. THE TRUTH IS... The electronics in vehicle powertrains exist primarily for compliance with rising government standards... The added price the consumer pays to put put around. Many have become so addicted to tech that cars are purchased for their bells, whistles, airbags, seat warmers, yada yada. Don't get me wrong some of it's very nice to have. It's a great selling feature in the age of the cupholder/throwaway car. My point is that when you open the door on your 240 and look at the date stamp remember that for many of us points got us here in 2008.

"Point" well taken. (Bad pun) I always thought it was the engineer. That's what I wanted to be at age 4. Thirty four years later I realized my dream of being a guy who likes to tinker. Walter, Interesting about the EMP and condenser. I've only cursory knowlege but it seems to me that the spike contained by the condenser each cycle would be much greater than a single EMP.?? I know a retired electrical engineer with friends at MIT. I'll pick his brain and see. I've heard stories about how a 1kiloton nuke being detonated over Kansas would wipe out a fair portion of the countries computers. Can't imagine it but what do I know. Enrique was in the military. Perhaps he has something.

Unless you're doing 7000+ RPM and/or a high CR and/or whacky/stupid advance does it matter? Most of the systems for EI discussed here don't have a rev limiter. (You have to buy one separate) I can't tell you how many times I missed a gear and slammed my tach. (Actually I CAN say that it was 6 times/18 years) Thank God the "poor little" points were there to kill the engine. The thing just died. Hit the starter after collecting my nerves and vroom everything back to normal. No broom or bucket to collect engine parts required. Like I said.. Bump the starter and it starts. I mean a quick bump at that... like as long as it takes to tap a piano key. Don't think it would start any faster with the EI... at least on mine. Part of the allure of an older car is a melding with the machine. I like the idea of the engineer of old getting out every stop to lube the train. There have been times where I didn't pop the Z's hood for six months and I felt like I was neglecting a child. If you want a no hassle car they still sell Hondas. If someones tired of screwing with points then more power to them. I won't knock them, it's their car. There are circumstances which would make it a legitimate need. To say points are crap is wrong. Although it's a different system (magneto) think about the "points are crap" mentality next time you visit the airport. Light aircraft (GA piston engined A/C) have points. I've never had a forced landing due to ignition problems and neither has anyone I've talked to. (2 mags help)

Not knocking you but I get 28mpg highway and merely "bump" the starter and the singer sewing machine comes to life. I Imagine you are reffering to when the points aren't in adjustment in the above comment and you would be right. Perhaps with fuel injection one could get 30 mpg out of the 2.4L if they tried. The ignition aspect of mileage is very small. Driving 80 miles a day round trip I tinker with my points about every 1-2 months. The real issue is some people have distributors which are worn giving them erratic behavior. When they go to set their points the setting is off because the shaft may shift. A dwell meter helps. In such cases a Pertronix or similar setup would compensate of course. This would be like buying a new dizzy cheap. I agree that the cheapo points most commonly offered SUCK. One place in town offers premium points like Arne mentioned. Just holding them you can "feel" the quality. 2c Jim

It seems more likely to me that your fuel pump is bad but a clogged strainer or something upstream of the pump could be it. I have a 240 so I don't know if there is a pre-filter upstream of the pump. Have you tried replacing the filter? You could always break it open and see what kind of stuff it's catching. If the tank were full to the top it would drain from the output/return lines. Anything less than 7/8 full would just get you a couple of drips. From earlier posts it seems that the 280Z's have a fuel strainer on the pickup in the tank. Laquer thinner does a great job of dissolving varnish. Unfortunately it eats some plastic and rubber. If you were to clean out your tank with LT then you would have to remove the tank so you could tip it and allow all of the LT to drain out. (Or risk damaging components downstream) If the strainer is clogged you can remove the tank, use LT and blow low pressure air through the line. If there is rust then a radiator shop is reccomended. (See link below) Be really careful with gas! Work outdoors in a breezy environment and take precautions against sparks. A flash fire from gas can melt the flesh right off of you in a blink. Years ago I got 2nd and 3rd degree burns over half my body from such a fire. It's not fun when they use a scalpel to cut scar tissue off with no meds! Meds only began to touch the surface of such pain anyway. Here's a link to a gas tank page I made. You can see the pickup is situated near the drain hole. Can you beleive someone would tackle a tank resto after being burned? (Must be nuts) http://warbuddies.homestead.com/gastank.html

BTW My Z was down for a few years. I wasn't surprised to find that the mechanical fuel pump's rubbers were toast. What was surprising were the flakes of white mineral like stuff which in turn clogged my rail. It seems that either the fuel left it behind or the fuel had caused a reaction during drying. Either way I had to flush my fuel rail a couple of times before all was well. Replacing the pump, filter and rubber lines exorcised this little nuisance. 2c Jim

You might want to drain the tank to get rid of any crappy fuel first. Pour a little fresh gas in to flush. (Maybe a quart) Do this all outdoors and on a windy day to avoid a fire/explosion hazard. Serious about the safety thing.. You want to see 2008 right? As mentioned above it would be a good idea to replace the mechanical pump and filter. The rubbers inside the pump are probably cracked. Another problem might be that the fuel rail could have crud in it. Once you get gas flowing past the filter remove the fuel return line from the rail and check for good flow through the pinhole. The pinhole provides a restriction needed to keep pressure in the system so don't drill it if it's clogged. Rather flush the rail repeatedly with laquer thinner and blow with compressed air to clear it. Laquer thinner works VERY quickly on varnish but can also eat/damage plastic or rubber. Don't run laquer thinner through the carbs or any part of the system other than metal lines is what I'm trying to say. It's also remotely possible that the electrical pump is toast. Run some juice to it and see if it comes to life. Easier yet, check for voltage coming from the leads with the ignition on. Make sure there is no raw fuel present or the spark could ignite the gas. If there is no voltage you could always temporarily rig the pump with some wires. Use a FUSE! This could help you get past this hurdle if present. I know you just want to hear it run. I recently de-cruded (tech term) a lawnmower tank that had been sitting for tweleve years using LT. After sitting overnight, the tank was down to bare metal even though the varnish was 1/8" thick! If you have the simpler early model SU's you can fill the fuel chambers 3/4 full of gas. This will run the car long enough to prime if the mech pump is OK. If you have the 1973 carbs.. well.. you're going to do some cranking.

Congrats on the new Z! Carl Beck wote an excellent post regarding this sort of thing. Do a search for it. Wait a minute... Here it is. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1281&highlight=carl+beck+body+shop Go ahead and try some searching this has been discussed quite a bit. Cheers Jim

Warren beat me to the post.

First you need to figure out whether it is a fuel or ignition problem. A quick way to see if it is a fuel problem is to try some starting fluid. Remove the air cleaner and spray a quick shot in one or both carbs. (Spray too much and you might get a fireball/loose some hair) If it runs momentarily on the starting fluid then the fuel system is at fault. It might be that your carbs are gunked up. Do you have the simpler SU carbs or the ones that came with a '73? If it doesn't run on the starting fluid then ignition or an engine mechanical problem exists. To check ignition... Lay a clean plug/wire on the valve cover (Or good ground) and crank. Look for spark. (See link below) If you suspect something upstream such as a wiring harness or ign switch you can always run a wire from the "+" terminal of the battery to the "+" terminal of the coil. The engine needs to be turning when the ignition is on in this manner or by the switch otherwise you will burn your points. In other words, do the "+ to +" thing just long enough to verify whether the ignition system works. Here's a link I made... or started to make for the basic 240z ignition.. http://warbuddies.homestead.com/240Zignition.html

Not sure what it's like on the 1970 model. Mine is a '71 and someone took my fusible link off and just went with straight wires. The link I think he's talking about belongs to the thick white wire going towards the starter about the same level as the starter. If you've ever installed a radio in a car you may have noticed a cylindrical tube holding a fuse. (Tube is usually either clear or black and sometimes opaque.) This is one type of fusible link. The other style is an enlarged inline section in a wire that if overloaded needs to be replaced. I've seen these in a few newer cars. Don't think the Z's use this later type. If it took you a while to jump the starter with a screwdriver and the screwdriver was making GOOD contact then it sounds like a loose battery cable. It could also be that the solenoid is sticking or contacts in the starter are corroded. If you check the battery cables and all is well on both ends of them and all of your starter's wires have clean good connections then it's time to suspect the starter. Do one last thing and turn the lights on an try starting. If the lights dim or go off when trying to start then suspect the aforementioned items. There is a very slim chance that your ignition switch is acting up but I'd suspect everything else first. Voltmeters are cheap a radio shack and harbor freight. Try testing for voltage at the starter's solenoid wire if you think it might be the ignition switch. Sorry for the long winded post. Jim

Are the float levels set right? I just bump my starter and it starts instantly. Sounds like the fuel level could be raised. As kenz240 mentioned a functional choke is needed. In cool weather mine needs a bit of choke or it behaves exactly as you describe. Is the timing set right?? Just thought I'd mention the obvious. Don't know how long you've had your Z.

Warren do you have regular SU's (early style) or the more complicated later style SU's which came on '73's??

How do you get the grain to match? Are you using a silicone mold and alumalite resin? If you need anything I have a lathe, mill and do aluminum casting. I was thinking of making molds the tail lenses out of aluminum for injection molding.

I pressure cleaned my car for a few years and found that it really forces water into places you'd rather not have it. (Such as spot weld joints) Using harsh degreasers also tends to shorten finishes lives. I've seen steam cleaners in use and think they're neat but it would probably do more damage over repeated use. It seems that the gentler you are the less damage you do. (Go figure) This applys to chemicals and method of cleaning. I don't know if you can get simple green in Belgium but it (to me) is the best tool for removing light oil deposits. Sure, pressure or steam clean it if you've got serious buildup but maintain the clean with the gentlest means necessary. Mechanical cleaning (scrubbing) is best since flush cleaning(water/pressure/steam) leaves a fine layer of silt. 2c from a guy who had a pressure cleaning business for 12 years. Jim

Dooh! She's got a nice face etc but the boobs are storebought. If I was single though....

You'll still have to remove some tar around the tranny tunnel. I used a propane torch and 1" metal scraper to get it off. If you warm.. not melt.. the stuff with the torch it scrapes of readily. Remove all flammable stuff such as jute/insulation from tunnel before starting of course. A sharp air chisel is a great aid in removing the rail side of the old pan which is held by spot welds. This should really be used after the spot welds have been drilled a bit. They make spot weld drills which are sold at paint and body suppliers. You can use a regular drill and remove only the thickness need to liberate the spot weld. (Not through drilling) I put in a set of pans for another member. They were stamped and may have been from Charlie O. They were very nice and the frame rail extensions were a plus. The only problem is that they didn't quite conform to the rear seat mount brackets which I was able to salvage and clean up. They needed to be modified a bit. This was my only complaint with the prefab pans. 2c Jim

I never met a Z owner I didn't like... or wouldn't help. (Twist On Will Rogers quote) I don't think there are many car owning fraternities that are as homogenous as ours. I think it has something to do with what the Z represents and the type of person who would own one. I do have some camraderie with other collectible owners and will often exchange waves with them much like motorcycle drivers do. Being with fellow Z owners is a unique experience though. Jim

Just an obvious 2c observation. When I completely stripped my car I found that the harness had rubbed through the insulation in a couple spots. The rubber grommets had rotted and allowed things to start shorting a bit. (Firewall and radiator support grommets) I also had the power drain problem which was somehow fixed when swapping fuseboxes and/or patching the harness. Still can't fugure that one out. At least it's OK now:) FWIW Jim

In your desciption above I didnt see much mention of ignition troubleshooting. I'm assuming you have spark and that the plugs are all clean??

NICE!!!:nervous:

I was...no..wait...still AM where you guys are. I could barely afford to do anything to my Z. It seems that life pulls us and our money in different directions. I think you'd be surprised how easy basecoat/clearcoat is to spray. I sprayed my own since I couldn't afford the $400 the local bodyshop guy wanted to charge me for applying the topcoat. (Yes, I was so strapped I couldn't spare $400:) ) If you screw up the base or clear you can save it with some sanding. The forgiveness of BC/CC is truly amazing compared to the way things were thirty years ago. This is a bad time of year to paint in anything but a heated booth/shop. My bodyshop friend has several diesel fired burners going outside his spray booth when it is cold enough. (Booth enclosed in shop of course) I imagine the paint booths up north need more elaborate heating. The truth is that everyone is affected by our economy and very little is cheap anymore. Women, cars and food are a lot more expensive than they were 20 years ago. Buying paint, primer and other supplies is a real blow to the wallet. If you go with a lesser line like PPG's "Omni" line and can stand/work with it's reduced quality you can achieve decent results. In the Omni line you can get 1gal base and enough clear for around $200-$300. Here's a page I made for DIY types. I've done a few cars and enjoyed this as a hobby while learning from a few mistakes. http://warbuddies.homestead.com/RestoHelp.html 2c Jim

A lot in my immediate area. Much less than there used to be though. I lucked out and met a guy just down the road from me. He has one and there are five of his friends that come over to his place to work on their Z's. Driving in Orlando FL I might see two or three. We have a nice sized Z club here though. There's plenty.