geezer

Stephen - That's what I didn't know, having never looked over a '77. It's now up to you Jim. I can tell you what to look for. Start at the Brake Warning Switch that is illustrated in Fig. BE-81 that Stephen provided. Using a test light or multimeter, connect to Bat.(+) and use the other probe to test the switch with the wire disconnected. You should not detect a ground. If you do, the switch may be defective, or it is simply doing it's job, warning you of a drop of residual pressure in either the front or rear brake circuits. Check for leaks. If no ground is detected, next test the Brake Warning LampCheck Relay. The black wire should have a ground, the yellow should have 12V only when the engine is running and the green/yellow stripe wire should have a ground only when the Park Brake is applied or a ground signal is recieved from the Brake Indicator Switch (name used in the schematic) or the Brake Warning Switch as it's called in Fig. BE-81 (same thing, different name). If all tests are OK up to this point, the relay itself is suspect. Check it out and let us know what you find.

Hey, I have that on my watchlist. Not because I want one, but because I was curious about it and was thinking of inquiring here about it. Where exactly would it be mounted? Anyone have a pic of one mounted?

That picture is an oldie. It almost looks phoney the way it is suspended with the cable.

Forget the Ebrake handle. It's fine. We know this because you say the light gets brighter when the brake is applied. I don't have these features in my 1970 Z and I don't have a wiring diagram. I went to the AtlanticZ site and had a look at the diagram they have for a 1977 Z. (By the way, it has a ClassicZCars logo on it) I found one thing odd, as if this diagram was for a RH Drive although it didn't state that. The "Brake Indicator Switch" has a label which says "Engine Compartment Firewall Passenger Cabin". On a LH drive the Brake Master Cylinder is on the left side. Since you are the guy with the car in front of you, you will have to confirm the physical locations of the components. They are not shown on a wiring diagram. What I gathered from trying to read the schematics on my computer screen is this. The light can be activated by two methods. The first is when the Park Brake is engaged. I believe the engine must be running because the "Brake LampCheck Relay" gets its 12V power directly from the alternator field wire. By applying the Park Brake you are supplying a ground to the relay. You earlier said the light became brighter. Fact is, the light should have been this bright even before the Park Brake was applied. This means you have a bad ground connection on the black wire, coming from the "Brake Warning Lampcheck Relay" that is screwed/connected to the body. On to the wires at the Brake Master Cylinder. As I've said, I don't have a '77 Z to look at so you need someone else that does to jump in to help. In the past I've worked on two types of Brake Warning Systems. One would supply a ground signal when the fluid level was low in the Brake Master Cylinder and the other would supply a ground signal when the pressure fell below a set parameter in a Brake Pressure Switch on the brake line. We need a FSM. Either way it is just a ground signal being sent to the relay. The other thing I don't know is the nature of the Brake Warning Lampcheck Relay. Is it normally open or closed? This is why you need the vehicle in front of you or at least a FSM to find all the answers. I hope this in some way, helps you understand a little more of how this system works. We need a little input from someone with a '77 to identify the wire(s) at the Brake Indicator Switch.

Will this work?

Carl - Thanks for explaining in terms I can get my head around. You are so right in breaking it down into different markets and the value associated with each market. I know I'm guilty of looking at a car and evaluating it for my own purposes, without giving it the due consideration what it might be worth to someone with a different plan for it. In this case, no matter what market you represent, the seller leaves a lot to be desired and could use a lesson from a real salesman.

That is very impressive! I can't imagine how much time was spent repairing the hood, fender, and door. It goes to show what can be done when you are forced to use what you have. You must be the envy of all your friends, driving what must be a rare car where you live.

Low fluid sounds right. Possibly, when you apply the parking brake you are augmenting the ground signal that the light is getting making it brighter. Is the same light used for a low fluid warning and a parking brake "on" indicator when the key is in the on position?

Hi Greddy - The car looks beautiful. I hope you do hear from the former owner, so we can hear the story behind the damage. It looks like a tree came down on it. I love the color you chose.

Go for it Sailor Bob...the Canadian dollar is still looking pretty good!!

Even if there are some things that need to be corrected in order to bring this car up to the next level, it is a far cry from a restored example. That is the appeal this car has. He is getting cheap global exposure on Ebay. Cars like this have a good chance of changing hands later on from a contact made while this listing was active. Nice car, but priced at a level where you might not want to put too many miles on it, for fear of it being devalued. I think what he is asking for it is a little on the high side, but if I was selling it I probably wouldn't think that way, if that makes any sense. One thought I had. Do those seats look like they have logged 39K?

This thread discussed how to test the clutch. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25817&highlight=fan+clutch+test

If you are going to Sears anyhow, don't discount the advise you got from Kenny P. and also get a bottle of the Craftsman Grip Doctor. Or do like I do and use some coarse valve lapping compound on the tip of the screw driver. Same principal is used, giving you a much better grip on the screw. It could be too late this time, but a little finese should be exercised when you come across a problem screw such as this. Take the extra time to match the screw up with the proper sized screwdriver. I can tell before a screwdriver slips that it is about to. That's when I stop before damaging the screw and assess the situation. I'll use a "screw out" or cut a new slot as a last resort, but the Grip Doctor is a great tip also.

I have been following your efforts to get your car roadworthy and make the long trip home and I hope you are successful. It is admirable that you are making the effort to correct the electrical problems, but you should go about it the right way. There is a correct sequence to follow when trouble shooting electrical problems. You can't just keep making guesses and add new parts such as the BlackDragon harness. You must first correct the existing wiring or at least diagnose the problems. I know none of this seems to be of any value to you and is not giving you any answers, but if you take the time to learn a few basic electrical trouble shooting skills, the time will be paid back to you a hundred fold in the future. Without being there and having a hands on advantage it is difficult for anyone to diagnose these problems online. I'm going to repeat some tips I posted recently. This is all you need to know to find and repair most electrical problems on these cars. In order to diagnose an electrical problem you first should have a thorough understanding of how the system operates. There is no better way to do this than studying the wiring diagrams and understanding the components involved in a particular circuit. Visually check the connectors & harness in this circuit. Try gently manipulating the connectors to expose a temporary power outage or loose or poor connection due to corrosion. On cars this old it never hurts to check the integrity of the terminals and clean them. If nothing obvious turns up, use a digital multimeter set on the resistance function to first do a : Continuity Check (open in the circuit) 1. Disconnect the battery negative cable 2. Start at one end of the circuit and work your way to the other end ( at the fuse block in this case) 3. Connect 1 probe to the fuse block on the load side 4. Check each subsequent point along the circuit with the other probe This should point out a blown fuse, loose or corroded connector or a break in a wire. Or use the Voltage Check method (battery connected) 1. Switch the multimeter to the voltage function 2. Connect one probe to a known good ground 3. Begin at one end of the circuit and work your way to the other end checking for the proper voltage Shorts With the negative battery cable disconnected you can test for shorts in the circuit by connecting one probe of your multimeter (set on the resistance setting) to a good ground and the other probe on each segment of the circuit, broken down to increments by disconnecting connectors or relays. The goal is to isolate the circuit in order to narrow the search for a short. The beep indicating continuity will point out a short. Grounds I can’t stress enough the importance of ground connections. Dirty or corroded connections are the cause of unwanted resistance, severely changing the way a circuit operates. These are just a few basic tips that can be used on just about any circuit on these cars. As I said earlier the first thing you need is a good understanding of the circuit in question and that means a good wiring diagram. Good Luck PS - Avoid using your test light instead of a digital multimeter if there is any chance of letting the smoke out of computers or sensitive controlers.

If you happen to find a source for them, let us know about it. I didn't get too serious in my search for one and decided to just repair the original, but it's still good to know.

A little clarification is needed on my part Randy. What I referred to as Vinyl Wash is a local slang term for what we use to prep the vinyl before painting. It does what the other guys suggested about softening the vinyl promoting adhesion and cleaning the surface with laqueur thinners or rubbing alcohol...kinda. I haven't tried those, so I can't qualify an opinion, but I do know this is safe. I went out to the garage and checked the can. It is actually labeled as Prime Wash. I wipe it on with a saturated rag and then quickly wipe it off with another rag (it evaporates quickly). It will slightly soften the vinyl without any damage to the vinyl or it's grain. It will remove any chalk residue from aged plastics, or any other surface contaniments that were not removed with your initial washing. I've had excellent results so far using this method with no complaints. Good Luck

If you are using paint that you have on hand already, Id suggest getting a product such as Kleenstrip tie coat to mix into the paint. Just make sure it is compatible with your paint. If you have not bought the paint yet, your paint supplier will offer the best solution for the paints they sell. It is a definite adhesion problem which goes hand in hand with a paints ability to flex. Pay particular attention to the paint prep. First use a good wax & grease remover before doing anything. You do not want to sand any contaniments into the surface.

I have done it many times and always had great results. It's not that difficult. For larger pieces it is actually better to use a spray gun because you can stay back a little more and lay on a much more even coat. That is the secret to excellent results..Thin, even coats. With a rattle can, larger panels are more apt to show striping when done. Also, make sure the panels are as clean as possible. I use soap & water with some Windex glass cleaner mixed in. I follow that up by wiping down with a lint free cloth soaked in vinyl wash/prep. Make sure the parts are bone dry and at room temperature before spraying. What product are you planning to use? What ever it is follow their instructions before taking my or anyone elses advise.

Thanks Mike

Woops, I meant introduce yourself in the INTRODUCE YOURSELF thread. Maybe Mike can move this for us. HaHa, welcome Tom. You will learm your way around the site soon enough. And be sure to use the search function as there is a treasure trove of info to be discovered.

That's the estimated time for removing & replacing. Note that it takes just as long to replace the pad as it does to replace the entire assembly. It's not too late, make another post and introduce yourself.

OK, I want to look at kcoke's pictures. What's the easy way to do that? Remember when we could just click on a USER NAME and then click on that user's GALLERY in their PROFILE?

You should have asked this in another thread. There are some good tutorials in the archives if you do a search for them. This might help. It's an exerpt from Mitchell's Foreign Estimator Guide. The time estimates will remain the same or close today. If anything I would allow a bit more time to allow for extra care to be taken with brittle & aged parts. Ignore the prices. I don't have a page covering the console.

You describe it as a "surface prep kit" that was supplied by Motorsport. It should have come with an instruction sheet and also should have been up to the task. It sounds to me that the primer went on fine, but there is an adhesion problem. Out of Enriques 4 possible causes I would first rule out (a) if the primer remained intact. ( is a real possibility and also your fault if you didn't follow the instructions that came with the kit. © would be the fault of Motorsport supplying a sub-standard kit. (d) is also a possibility and again should have been covered in the instructions. The only other things I can think of off hand are the temperature at the time of application and extreme flexing or bumping onto curbing. I don't know where you live or the weather conditions, but I have seen these things shattered easily in the severe cold. Other than us guessing the cause, all you can do now is follow Enriques advise and have the pros at the paint dealer set you up properly with the correct materials and instructions. Good Luck PS-Something tells me we are going to hear more about (a):laugh:

That would have been a shame if the Z suffered any damage. I would talk to the insurance company and let them know it would be mutually beneficial to plant some concrete filled posts connected with steel rails for protection, as a part of the garage repair. After all, this is not the first time, and may not be the last. On a brighter note, looks like it was a beautiful day in Kansas. PS-They don't call them Rams for nothing:cry: