HS30-H

Hi Enrique, Since nobody else ( as far as I am aware ) has posted any serial / VIN number information on this thread apart from me, I presume you are referring to the figures that I posted - which relate to Japanese market models declared manufactured in 1969. Correct? I posted production figures supplied directly by Nissan Shatai ( the people that made the things ) and also Japanese government ministry records which show the VIN numbers of cars declared manufactured during the 1969. All of the numbers I posted are for JAPANESE market cars, as one of the first posts on this thread quoted "300" cars manufactured for the Japanese market during the 1969 calendar year - which was clearly wrong. Compare these figures to what you see on 'zhome.com' regarding the "first 500" at your leisure. I don't recall seeing ANY mention of the 1969 S30 and S30-S models on that site, and one would be forgiven for imagining that they did not even exist. The irony of seeing Carl Beck posting on this thread - completely ignoring the subject under discussion in the title of the thread, surprise surprise - was not lost on me. Gave me a wry smile, actually. But nevertheless, here is a 1969-build Fairlady being very relevant - in its own thread - and providing interesting conversational matter...... As far as I am aware, zhome.com does not show any information on production quantities provided by Nissan Shatai, or from any Japanese government ministry ( I wonder if a Japanese ministry would have VIN number records for exported cars? ). It seems that the information on the "first 500" ( that's a nice round figure isn't it? ) HLS30-U models on zhome.com is compiled mainly from US-based sources, and somewhat anecdotally to boot. As a guide to what was received in the USA and Canada it may very well be a good source, but what was actually made in Japan could be another thing entirely. Regarding the figures from Nissan Shatai - these are the quantities that Nissan Shatai recorded that they manufactured. We don't have any 100% reliable information that indicates whether all of these cars were assigned a VIN number, or which of them actually made it into the ownership of a private individual ( although Kats has had a very valiant stab at deciphering the numbers for the "Export" cars quoted ). As for the 'Shatai Bango, Ichi Ran Hyo' figures submitted to the Japanese ministry by 'Nihon Jidosha Kogyo Kai', these relate to VIN numbers assigned to Japanese market vehicles, broken down by VIN prefix type and year of manufacture. Pull them apart at your leisure. As I pointed out when I posted them, they don't completely correspond with the Nissan Shatai figures but they DO purport to list actual VIN numbers stamped onto car bodies. They are better than nothing, and I think the 'truth' ( whatever that is ) probably lies in how the figures are deciphered and what is counted ( and not counted ) in the Nissan Shatai figures. If you want to argue that the figures I have posted could be incorrect, then you are welcome to make that observation. However, this thread was started in reference to the car wearing VIN number S30-00144 which is CERTAINLY one of more than 900 'S30' VIN prefixed cars to have been manufactured before the end of 1969, and was almost certainly manufactured during November of that year. Alan T.

26th-Z, Slightly off topic but... Are you referring to the BRE SCCA C-Production cars here? I recall reading that they were using a 5 speed overdrive transmission ( the FS5C71-A ) on the BRE car(s). Was that legal under C-Production rules?

5 Speed ratios for 1969 & 1970 Fairlady Z-L model ( FS5C71-A transmission ): 1st = 2.957 2nd = 1.858 3rd = 1.311 4th = 1.000 5th = 0.852 R = 2.922 Diff ratio = 3.9:1 You keep making the assertion that a 5 speed transmission was fitted to "cover the lack of performance over the 240Z". I'd like to remind you that the Fairlady Z 432 and 432R both had exactly the same transmission ratios as the Z-L, and were rated at 160ps ( ie - more peak power than the HLS30-U ), as did the other non-USA market HLS30 models and HS30 models - which like the HLS30-U had the L24 engine. They were certainly not fitted with the overdrive 5 speed to cover any lack of performance, were they?

I'd say that the main reasons the USA / North American market 'HLS30-U' model was equipped with a 4-speed instead of a 5-speed were first of all COST savings, and secondly the perceived lack of sophistication of the potential market ( whether that was correct or not ). Don't forget that the HLS30-U model also had different ( softer ) spring rates and different ( softer ) damper rates in comparison to all other market models, and - initially at least - no rear Anti Roll Bar ( despite the fact that these were a part of the original design ). The HLS30-U also had a 'softer' front Anti Roll Bar in comparison to all other market models. This idea that all the other market models "needed" the 5-speed to compensate for a lack of power and torque is complete nonsense. Having a 5-speed transmission in that period was something of a luxury, and was still seen as rather fancy and exotic. A close ratio overdrive transmission was an essential part of the sporting drive, with the first four ratios nice and close for fun and the overdrive ratio available for high speed cruising at constant speeds. The fact that many of the other ( mainly European ) sports / GT models pitched at the USA market at the time were also equipped with 4 speeds should tell us more about the USA market than the cars themselves. Many of these cars came with 5 speeds in other markets..... Did the non-USA export-market '240Z' models have a 5-speed and 3.9 ratio diff to compensate for a lack of torque? Did the 432 and 432R have a 5-speed and 4.44 diff ratio to compensate for a lack of power? No. They had them because the buyers of such vehicles expected and wanted a close ratio 5 speed as part of the sports / GT car experience. My everyday-driver Alfa Romeo 156 has a close ratio 6 speed transmission. Does anybody seriously think this is to 'compensate' for something lacking? Do any modern cars have four speed transmissions? I can't think of one. There's a strong case to suggest that the HLS30-U was a 'dumbed down' sports car aimed at a market that was perceived ( perhaps mistakenly, I'd say ) not to require the same level of sporting character as other markets at that time. It seems that most owners of such cars have a hard time coming to terms with that fact. Nevertheless this 'dumbed down' sports car sold like hot cakes in its intended market. So maybe they got it right overall? Call it how you want to call it. The Japanese home market got a big choice of models, specs and optional parts right from the beginning of sales. The cheapest 'base model' Fairlady S30-S was equipped with a 4-speed and suitable diff ratio, with a 5-speed as an extra cost option. All other models were equipped with a 5 speed and suitable diff ratio, with the 4 speed available as an option. You'd have to say that a similar choice of models and specs would have been popular in the USA. Imagine if an official sharpened-up model for the serious enthusiast was available off the showroom floor in the USA; something like Car and Driver magazine's "240 Omega" could have been the perfect choice for the serious sporty driver at the time. Anyone who has driven an early Fairlady with L20A and 5 speed / 3.9 diff combo will know that it is a really nice package. It is irritating to see and hear people who have never even seen one of these cars in the flesh - let alone driven one - implying that they are in some way odd-ball models or are impaired by a matter of 400 cubic centimetres.

Yes. FS5C71-A. From the Factory.

Hi NovaSS, I'm not sure where you got that figure of 300 or so Fairladies for 1969? Nissan Shatai's records show that they had manufactured 969 'Domestic' market S30-series cars ( and 543 'Export' market S30-series cars - which will be 'HS30' and 'HLS30' models ) up to the end of December 1969. Nissan Shatai's figures for 'Domestic' market cars do not differentiate between Fairlady Z S30-S / S30 models ( Z and Z-L ) and Fairlady PS30 / PS30-SB ( Z432 / 432R ) models. However, official records for 'Domestic' chassis numbers ( 'Shatai Bango' in Japanese ) manufactured within the 1968 and 1976 period do exist, and these differentiate between S30 and PS30 variants. These chassis numbers are broken down by year in the records. The chassis numbers quoted for 1969 year manufacture are: *S30 ( Fairlady Z & Fairlady Z-L ) = Chassis Numbers S30-00001~00953 *PS30 ( Fairlady Z432 & Fairlady Z432-R ) = Chassis Numbers PS30-00001~00072 As you can see, Nissan Shatai's figures for the quantities of 'Domestic' bodies manufactured in 1969 ( total 969 ) do not add up with the official records of Chassis Numbers manufactured in 1969 ( 953 'S30' prefixed plus 72 'PS30' prefixed = 1025 cars total ). However, looking at the monthly breakdown of Nissan Shatai's figures, I think its safe to say that your car ( S30-00144 ) would indeed have been manufactured in November 1969. That's a nice low VIN number and I would say its a pretty rare survivor of 1969 production Fairladies. It is definitely worthy of being saved. Just one point: you mentioned that it was "numbers matching", and I know what you mean ( original engine in original chassis ) but the Japanese VIN tags never quoted the actual engine number. They just quoted the engine type related to its taxation class, as can be seen on the VIN tag picture that you posted. Whatever you do ( keep or sell ) I wish you all the best with it. If it wasn't so far away from me I would have been knocking on your door by now Good luck, Alan T.

26th-Z, The earliest L20A-engined Fairladies ( roughly contemporary with your cars ) had the heat shield with the spring tabs at the bottom - same as both your cars, so I don't think the example you have with the spring tabs positioned higher up is a Fairlady item ( at least not early Fairlady anyway ). Here's a scan from the 1969 Japanese-market Factory workshop manual as evidence. It was published in November 1969, and ( as a guide to when the photos were shot ) it uses PS30-00009 as a 'model' in the 432 section......

Would it be considered churlish or denigrating if I suggested that Saran Wrap might be a good low-budget alternative to clear lenses? I'm trying to be diplomatic here....... :tapemouth

Great comedy posting! :laugh: But shouldn't this be in the 'Funnybone' section? bpilati, I think I have a job for you. Get yourself over to 'Eyerack' and sort that mess out. They need somebody with vision, and the ability to cut to the chase and sort out the good guys from the bad guys. After you have finished there are a few other hotspots in the world that need a spot of bpilati-stylee analysis. The Cast: Mr K = White-hatted 'Good Guy' ( in the Gary Cooper mould ). The Idiots In Japan = Black-hatted baddies ( er, no names no pack-drill - so no awkward questions about who they are, OK? ) Goethe = German Philosopher? Only here as a bit-part player ( but hey, he had just as much input on the '240ZEE' as that Goertz guy - so why not? ). Ghosn is about as French as I am ( ie - not very ).

I second that emotion. Thanks for posting data and pics, Guus. Very much appreciated.

Hi Michael, The Nissan Motorsports items are bound to be good ones, but don't ISKENDERIAN still make a couple of cams for the A-series? They were listed last time I looked at the Isky range. Worth giving them a try? If not, then I know for sure that some of the Japanese shops still carry special cams for these engines. Let me know if you want me to look into it. Cheers, Alan T.

bpilati, I've been puzzling over what you wrote ( quoted above ) and I really can't make out exactly what you are referring to. Who are the executive jerks and why would they be boiling in their own juices? And what was Mr Katayama's good idea? The stories surrounding the removal of 'Fairlady' emblems by Katayama have clearly become mixed up over the years, and it is clear that 'whispering grass' syndrome took hold of the story a long time ago and blew it all out of proportion. I've never heard a first-hand account of the Japanese side of that story, and without hearing both sides of the story I think a lot of presumptions are being made. What is clear is that Katayama's personal removal of 'Fairlady' emblems from just three cars ( confirmed as being the three 'Press Cars' - thank you Carl Beck ) proves that this was already an issue that had been settled. Even before those three cars were being shown to the Press and public in the USA, Nissan had shown "Datsun 240Z" emblemed cars to the Japanese press, and displayed a "Datsun 240Z" emblemed HLS30-U ( wearing a sign saying "Fairlady Z - Export Version" ) at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show. The issue must have been resolved before these cars were seen in Japan during October 1969. In fact, it must have been at least several weeks before that - as designing and producing the emblems ( even the first samples ) must have taken something like that amount of time. Even if the new emblems seen on the cars in October 1969 were hand-made prototypes then it surely indicates a firm decision as having been made and agreed a reasonable amount of time beforehand? Katayama's personal removal of the emblems from those cars gets talked-up as though it was a battle of wills that was still ongoing. It was clearly nothing of the sort. No way were Nissan Japan's staff trying to force the 'Fairlady' emblems on Katayama against his will at that point. Katayama's personal removal of the emblems on those three cars was just sweeping-up after the fight if you like. It was clearly already a done deal. Alan T.

The pair of wheels currently running on the Yahoo auction that g72s20 linked us to are a pair of Ise san's second run of replicas. He has had a very limited edition second run manufactured by the Hayashi Racing factory in aluminium, using an original wheel as a pattern. Hayashi were able to meet all the regulatory standards covering road wheels, so they are road legal. Only five sets are available, and they are being sold off in pairs. Expect to see them reach over 250,000 Yen per pair, or not reach the reserve price........ Alan T.

Hi NZeder, Sorry about my PM inbox. I've just been there and cleared it out a bit. I'll send you a PM straight away. Of course you would be most welcome to come and see my ZG ( you can see a half-built 432R replica and some boxes full of junk too :classic: ). Hopefully the weather will be a bit better by that time. I'll have to check dates and see if there are any interesting car-related events worth visiting while you are in the UK. Cheers, Alan T.

Ah, OK I see what you mean. Well, don't forget that the ZG was supplied without the spoiler in most cases, as were most of the Japanese models in fact. The spoilers were often specified as catalogue 'Option' parts, and these were fitted by dealers. When the dealers installed the spoilers, they had to drill the holes to mount them - hence the inconsistency in mounting position that you can see. It seems that the spoilers took a while to catch on in Japan, and many cars got them a good while after leaving the showroom. Here's a couple more illustrative pics from official Nissan documentation:

Nope. I've got his phone number though. I think I'll call him next week some time and see if he is interested in filling in a few gaps. I have a lot of background info from other people. I just sent you an e-mail about it. Tell me what you think.

Hi Mike, I don't understand. Can you clarify what you want me to clarify? The emblems on the rear spoiler of my ZG are correct. A 'Fairlady' emblem ( no 'Z' integral ) and a '240Z' emblem.

Example photos of the two different types:

Christopher, If this is the one that you bought from the UK recently, then I can tell you EXACTLY what car it came from ( and it was categorically NOT HS30-00026 ). I'll contact you directly about it.

Simple really. They were original equipment on any Fairlady 240Z ( which includes the ZG, as Alfadog pointed out ). 'Fairlady Z" models got the one-piece emblem with the Z moulded into it from October 1969 onwards ( S30-S, S30, PS30, PS30-SB and upwards etc). 'Fairlady 240Z' models ( from Oct.71 in Japan ) got a new Fairlady emblem without the Z on the end. This was combined with the '240Z' emblem that was used on the Export models - so a pair of emblems made up the 'Fairlady 240Z' script ( applicable to the HS30-S, HS30, HS30-H and their sub-variants ). The 'FairladyZ' emblem was used over a much longer period, and on many more models - so its much more common. SER240Z, would you consider selling your metal 'Fairlady' emblems? I would be willing to buy them if you were. A couple of years ago some thieving little lowlife prised off the emblems on the front wings ( fenders ) of my ZG, and I had to use my precious spares to replace them. I could do with another couple of spares in case the same thing happens again ( quite likely here in lovely London :disappoin ).......... Cheers, Alan T.

Well I looked and looked, and didn't find a single pic of a Hakosuka Skyline in Police guise....... Seems to be possible to find just about any other model in Police colours, except the C10. Strange. I don't think we can trust the plastic kit versions to be 100% proof that they existed. The manufacturers would often re-pop an old kit in new colours / box art, with a few extra parts, just to get more use out of an old mould. I'll keep looking, though....... :classic:

The R-DRIVE parts books show the bolt coming down into the captive nut, so if the picture is simply upside down then all would appear to be correct? By that I mean that the head of the bolt is UP, and the thread is DOWN, and the captive nut can only work in one way with the bolt this way. But maybe this is a good example of a genuine, original, untouched car, of the same spec ( ie - HLS30-U ) of roughly the same production period, being the ONLY true reference. I'm not 100% sure that we could trust the parts books or FSMs for detail down to this kind of level.......... Top marks for dedication, Kats. :knockedou

Kats, Is that picture upside down?

Short answer - no. The air inlets on the air cleaners simply allow the engine to suck as much air as they need. No tangible 'ram air' effect under a bonnet like that, no matter which direction the air cleaner inlets are pointing in. Don't worry yourself with it. The designers knew what they were doing......... Literally hundreds. If you counted all variants and all years you might even get up into the thousands. The good news is that spares for 'proper' SU carbs are plentiful, and spares for AH Sprites and MG Midgets and their like are no problem either. If only the situation for 'our' cars was so good.....

Ah, you mean S30-00769 for the S30 pics? I think that's a case of owner preference, and the car isn't as it would have left the Factory. As far as non-rubbered bumpers go, Nissan's intended spec for the models released in October 1969 was that only the S30-S and PS30-SB had them. What the owners subsequently fitted was their own business........ Sure it had bumpers. It was an official production model intended for limited sale to the General Public specifically to aid homologation of race cars and race parts. It had to have bumpers. They took them off of the race cars... You can call them 432-R bumpers if you want, but its probably more truthful to call them S30-S bumpers. At least it would be good accompaniment to the "432" mesh grilles which are exactly the same as the mesh grilles on other models......