HS30-H

Is this comment directed at one particular individual, or a group of individuals, or even a nationality? If you're pissed off with something, then get it out in the open. I don't personally see that the mention of "American arrogance" was aimed at a particular person. More a kind of generality based on the perceptions that people outside the USA sometimes have. They don't come from nowhere. This is a site dedicated to a Japanese car. Sometimes the chat here makes me believe that "American car, made in Japan" quote is really taken to heart in the USA. That's an example of what people like me see as "American arrogance". We should all bear in mind what others might find 'insulting'. Personally speaking, I found the inappropriate use of the word "Factory" somewhat insulting to the memory of the people who designed and built the cars originally, but I don't see any chance of an apology in the near future. On the contrary, it seems I'm an "asshole" for taking issue with it.

Here's the second section. Again, reading from left to right across the top: *Dual Exhaust. ( that's the full twin-pipe system, standard equipment on the Z432 ) *Leather Top. ( actually vinyl ) *Racing Stripe. *Rubber Bumper. ( refers to the bumper trim which was standard on the Z-L and Z432 ) *Over Rider. *Electrically Heated Rear Glass. *Headlamp Covers. *Roll Bar. *Air Spoiler. ( that's the early-shape one, often mistakenly called the "BRE" spoiler in the USA ) *Assistant's Footrest. *FM Pack. There's a sub-note that says colours nos. 904 ( Grand Prix White ), 907 ( Grand Prix Green ) and 918 ( Grand Prix Orange ) are "Option" colours. 918 was actually standard on the Z432-R.

:classic: :classic: :classic: :paranoid:

daddz, Good question, and I'm glad you brought it up. If by "S30" you mean a Fairlady Z or Fairlady Z-L, then I can tell you that the very best examples of these models can and already do command higher sale prices than any of the NMC USA project restored cars. The big point is that this happens in Japan - not the USA ( so I guess it might not qualify as relevant? ). It also tends to happen privately between the two parties ( not on Ebay, in the back of a magazine, or on a Dealer sales lot ). We even have cars that have changed hands for extremely high prices here in the UK. Translate those prices into Dollars and you might be very surprised. Naturally, the best examples of the rarer models will change hands for bigger money. For this you have to look to Japan. Excellent Z432 models regularly change hands for big money, and when Z432-R models change hands the price can be stratospheric in Z terms. I had a serious offer a couple of years ago from Japan to buy my ZG. Price offered was £17,500 ( work that out in US Dollars at current exchange rates ). I turned it down. I would not be able to replace it for that kind of money. The market dictates the prices, and anything is only "worth" what somebody is willing to pay. Think of it in World market terms and the USA is actually one of the cheaper places in the world to buy a good car.

I have scanned some of the rest of that page of the brochure, to help clarify the unpictured options and the standard equipment on the three model types concerned. Grey dot = OPTION Grey square = STANDARD EQUIPMENT Reading down the side of the page, you can see the three models concerned ( Fairlady Z, Fairlady Z-L and Fairlady Z432 in that order ). Read across the columns to see what is Option and what is Standard Equipment. A blank means it is not available on that model. Column headings ( across the top of the page ) for the first image read: *5-speed Transmission. *165HR-14 Tyres. *Air Con Kit. *Leather Handle. ( 'Handle' = steering wheel in the Japanese vernacular ) *Leather Shift Lever Knob. *Car Stereo. *Stop Watch Clock. *Two Hands style Clock. ( the normal clock ) *Reclining Seat Device. *Passing Light. *Fog Lamp. So - for example - reading across the list you can see that the 5-speed Transmission is standard equipment on the Fairlady Z-L and Fairlady Z432, but is an Option on the Fairlady Z. Second example: The Air Con Kit is not available as an Option on the Fairlady Z or Fairlady Z432, but IS available as an Option on the Fairlady Z-L. Here's the first scan:

I've re-scanned the brochure and broken it down into sections. Hopefully this will show more detail from the photos, but the originals are actually TINY. Everybody needs to bear in mind that the pictured options are not the only options. There's a longer list of optional equipment next to the photos in the brochure, and its laid out in a way that shows what is available on each of the three basic models concerned. These three basic models are: *Fairlady Z ( S30-S ) - the 'basic' no-frills model. *Fairlady Z-L ( S30 ) - the 'luxury' model. *Fairlady Z432 ( PS30 ) - the S20 twin cam engined model. The numbered photos translate as follows: 1. Car Stereo. 2. Clock with Stop Watch. 3. Reclining Seat Device. 4. Passing Light. 5. Fog Lamps. 6. Dual Exhaust. ( thats the full twin-pipe system ) 7. Leather Top. ( actually vinyl ) 8. Racing Stripe. 9. Rubber Bumper. 10. Over Rider. 11. Rear Glass with Electric Heater. 12. Air Spoiler. 13. Footrest ( Assistant ). 14. FM Pack. Here are the photos. I'm trying to attach the largest reasonable size possible:

Alfadog, Enrique was going to start the thread when I had sent him some better scans of the photos. I was also going to translate the captions and give more details as to what the descriptions referred to, and what models they applied to. Since he pledged his idea to start the thread less than 24 hours ago, I hardly think you have given it enough of a chance to claim that "nobody started the thread". I haven't even had a chance to dig out the brochure and re-scan it yet. Now its gone off half cocked. What's the point of guessing games when I can tell you exactly what everything is and what it applies to, and with much better photos as reference? I've got the late 1971 brochure too, which has different options and different pictures. I was going to scan that for comparisons.

Double post edit

I still think you don't understand. My whole post ( the one you pulled the "pompous" quote from ) was in answer to the post by ALT_255, which asked a question ( maybe rhetorically? ) that was difficult to answer elegantly - at least for me it was...... I chose to start another line ( paragraph even, wow! ) for emphasis and - dare I say - style. It just looks neater to me, and scans a bit better. Posts that scan better really ought to be easier for all to understand too. I still don't understand how you can say the post was "pompous". I'd really like to ask you to put yourself in my position and answer ALT_255's question, whilst avoiding being both pompous and flippant. Go on, try it. Educate me. How's that for pompous?

I'm still waiting for your answer. Why don't Bristol Cars Ltd's activities qualify as a precedent to the NMC USA "Vintage Z Pre-Owned Vehicle" program? Just how was the NMC USA project a "World First"? Maybe if Bristol dreamed up the exercise as a marketing ploy, and then contracted private restoration companies to carry out the work for them, it might qualify? But no, they did it all in house ( and out of your line of sight ) so it does not count. So come on, if you know why - why not tell me? Just why can I not use Bristol as an example?

Bambikiller240, I think I can see a big gap between the way you think and the way I think. Maybe the above comment came off as more than a little "pompous" to you ( not the first time I've been accused of that on this site, and probably not the last ) but to extract the LAST part of the quote, isolate it from its context, and then insert it with relation to quite a different subject, comes across - to me at least - as missing the point and *possibly* trying to make another altogether............. Do you actually understand the point I was trying to make? I don't mean do you agree; I mean do you actually understand? Did you understand that it was written in reply to the question from ALT_ 255: "HS30-H.. is there anything datsun related you dont know about?"? How would you recommend I answer such a question? There's a quote ( James Boswell, as far as I remember ) about London: "He who is tired of London is tired of life itself". That's the kind of thinking I was trying to sum up. Obviously not well enough. Of course everybody should, and ought to, enjoy these cars on their own terms. I'm not saying otherwise, am I? Where I come from, my comment would be seen as somewhat self-deprecating ( especially in the light of the post to which it was replying ). But I guess maybe that just doesn't come across where you come from? Note to self: I'll have to be much more careful about what I write and the way I write it on here in future. Alan T.

Bambikiller240, What point exactly are you trying to make with the quote above? If you want to mix-and-match quotes from me, and then apply them to subjects that are different to those which they were originally connected with, then it kind of defeats the point I was originally trying to make. You don't agree? The point I was trying to make on the original subject of the "Assistant's Footrest" was that the thread came to an abrupt halt when I posted some information and pics relevant to the subject matter. Neither the person who started the thread, nor any of the original posters on the thread, came back with any further comment related to the subject. It just stalled. I found that odd, that's all. Made me wonder if I'd killed it. I thought there was a least a little more life left in the thread subject, but I was obviously mistaken. Alan T.

Hi Enrique, This is another one of those Lazarus-like thread revivals, isn't it? I'll take a shot at scanning that Japanese sales catalogue accessories page, but you have to remember that the original photos and original text are very small. They might not scan up all that well....... I applaud and support your intentions, but are you sure that the members here will be interested enough to discuss each item? The thread died pretty quickly when I posted the scan of the Japanese sales brochure, didn't it? I got the impression that it was 'Tits On A Bull' to the vast majority of members here, which is sad. Cheers, Alan T.

Short answer: YES. Long answer: There's more I don't know than I do know. I'm still looking for answers to questions that I asked many years ago, and there are many questions that I didn't even ask yet ( probably because I don't know what these questions actually are ). In fact, I don't even know what I don't know. If you've got me down as any kind of guru or oracle then you are greatly mistaken. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If anybody thinks they know everything about first-generation Z cars, and there is nothing worth knowing left to know, then they would have to be deluded, conceited and - frankly - rather sad. Personally, I enjoy a lot of the mystery and intrigue around the cars. Cheers, Alan T.

Hi Ben, I'm having new plastic parts made for the three used sets that I have, but I'm not planning on making any of the surrounds. I don't think its as easy as it looks. Additionally, I have lent a pair of NOS covers to a Z resto specialist company here in England. This was in order for them to investigate the possibilities of tooling up for the manufacture of exact replicas, but its taking some time........ What I can say is that its not as easy as it might at first seem. These are complicated shapes to bend a u-shaped channel into without puckering and stretching the corners. Nissan's original supplier didn't do such a great job themselves ( although I love them ) and stress fractures are not uncommon. The earliest of these covers were a Chrome finish, but later covers were made from Stainless. Sometimes its necessary to 'tweak' them a little when fitting for the first time, and this can sometimes cause cracks in the butt weld that joins the two ends of the channel together - especially on the stainless versions. The plastic tends to crack from the fixing holes to the outside edge as it gets older and more brittle, especially in extremes of heat and cold ( and when you go very very very fast ). The original fixings are hilariously crap too. That can be rectified with better mounting hardware that will not be seen once they are fitted ( 'Rivnuts' for example ), but I have no idea how any 'improvement' to the misting / dirt build-up problems can be made without changing the look of the things. Alan T.

The Japanese market cars changed from the 'S30' model code to 'S31' in late 1975. All the 'S31' cars used the injected L20E engine, but previous domestic models used the L20, L24 and S20 engines. There was a brief period in Japan where RS30 ( L26 engined ) models were being made for domestic sale, but after problems with them the Factory converted these cars to L20 engines and restamped the VINs accordingly. rusty260z, That 'G' prefix on your car denotes a 2+2, and the fact that its a a 'GS31' shows that it is a Japanese home market 'Fairlady 2/2' model. I think you know that already. Most of the panels are interchangeable on a like-for-like basis ( S30 / S31 2 seater for S30 / S31 2 seater and S30 / S31 2+2 or 2/2 for S30 / S31 2+2 or 2/2 ). Of course, 2 seater-specific panels will not fit a 2+2 / 2/2 and vice-versa. That's all you need to look out for really. What panels specifically? Maybe we can help in more detail if we have more info.

Hi Ben, Mr Duncan Pearcey of The Z Farm built both cars ( and drives the rally car himself too ). As far as I understand it, Nissan UK paid for the restoration of the car and sourced some of the parts from the USA and Japan. Duncan also supplied some NOS and good used parts from his own stock. I'm very interested to hear what people think of this car, and indeed what it can be classified as ( seeing as Nissan UK commissioned the job ). Another pic from the Nissan stand at Goodwood for you:

Hi Ben, Thanks for your support on this point. It seems like pointless nitpicking to some, I know - but people have already misunderstood the situation and ( as I mentioned before ) some journalists in the past have already written that the cars were sent back to Japan! If nobody stands up for clarification of the facts then its the start of the slippery slope. This is how myth becomes legend. Thanks too for confirming that some Americans at least will have heard of Bristol Cars Ltd ( and not just their engines ). I'm still waiting for 26th-Z to tell me why Bristol don't count as an example of auto manufacturers who have bought back, restored and re-sold their own product........... My thanks to Vicky for quoting NMC USA's description of the "Nissan Vintage Z Pre-Owned Vehicle" program. Its especially good to hear this from an owner of one of these cars. I'll try to remember and use that description for these cars in future. Ben, Yes indeed, the car in the photo is the very one that has been loaned to journalists here in the UK for magazine articles, and has been used on Nissan UK's show stands at several events. Its on the cover of the Sept. edition of Practical Classics magazine. The journalist quotes the designer as Goertz again...... More pics of the car:

gruvyz, What's wrong with discussing this subject "deep & long"? If you are going to be a regular participant, then you will - hopefully - start to understand that deep & long discussions, by people with "WAY too much time" on their hands, are the lifeblood of a forum like this. When people cannot be bothered to reply, or even be bothered to post in the first place, is when you should worry............ You asked: "....who REALLY cares about the inference to whether or not they were actually done in Nissan's factory!" Well, as you can probably tell from my posts - I care. If you are going to throw the word 'Factory' around freely then you really ought to think deep & long about what it means, and what you are inferring by using it in connection with your car. Your car was restored by an American specialist restoration company on behalf of NMC USA. That's a quite different thing to being restored "by the original manufacturer". I like to ask your opinion on a related subject; A couple of years ago, Nissan UK decided that they would like to have a good example of a UK-market HS30 "240Z" of their own - to use as a promotional tool. They looked around in the UK for a car to buy, and contracted the services of a Z specialist here to undertake the restoration for them. They supplied the funding and sourced some of the parts for the project. Now, other than the fact that this car was never destined to be sold to the general public, and was not part of a 'program' or well publicised advertising project, how is it any different to your car? Are you going to call this car a "Factory Restored" car too? I'm very eager to hear your answer, and any comments from anybody else.............. I attach a photo of the car in question. It was taken on the Nissan UK stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. I applaud your intention to use your car and enjoy it. Alan T.