HS30-H

Hi Kats, Glad you liked the photo. I will send you a high resolution copy direct by e-mail. File size will be quite big, but it might be worth it. Its interesting that they called it a "Fairlady Z Export Model" on the Nissan stand, but its already emblemed-up as a "Datsun" and "240Z". Is this evidence of Nissan's thinking at the time, or can it be explained away by the fact that they were showing the car in Tokyo and thought it easier to call the car a Fairlady Z "Export Model" just for the Japanese show? I have some other angles - but all mono I'm afraid. Here are some:

Hi Gee, Well - we don't get as much hot sunshine as other countries, but the interior trim panels seem to go brittle and crack up just the same. I've been hunting for good early interior panels for my project car ( it came with NO interior except the dash ) and I have to say that its been really tough. Most of the used ones you come across are trashed. There are quite a few people sniffing around for good parts over here, and when they find them they lay them down like fine wines. Shipping from the UK to Australia is going to cost more than shipping from USA / Canada too - so all in all it kind of nixes the idea somewhat. There will be those RHD only parts that might have no alternative but to come from another RHD market - but you are so far away from the UK. Japan is so much closer to you - but the Yen is mighty strong at the moment. Sorry if it all sounds negative, but good stuff is VERY difficult to find over here these days. If you need anything smallish or less likely to be trashed then don't hesitate to ask me. All the best, Alan T.

Lots of good differences pointed out - well done everybody. I've been looking at this photo for a long time, and keep seeing more and more things that are strange - but some of the comments have made me look again. Great fun. I would have thought that this crash test car WOULD have had an engine and transmission installed, or the crash test results would have been rather meaningless? Its clear that this crash test car has many features that are different to the production specs, but its possibly a bit dangerous to comment in too much detail on the front end as its so mashed up from the impact. I think I can see an inspection lid still in its horizontal position, and its possible that the bonnet ( hood ) has overlapped the scuttle panel after impact too. Nobody has mentioned that its another RHD prototype. I would suppose that is a large block of something heavy on the drivers seat - simulating the weight of the driver? Here's a clearer pic of the pressed steel four-spoke wheels on one of the prototypes. They were quite different to the Magnesium wheels on the 432 ( made by Kobe Seiko ). This car has similarities and differences to the crash test car: Alan T.

That pic of the blue car I posted in another thread was actually the "Export Model" ( a USA-market car ) at the '69 Tokyo Motor Show. Isn't that the one you mean? Maybe I confused the issue by discussing the fact that it was emblemed-up as both a 'Datsun' and a '240Z' - but where the number plates would be they had attached cards that said "Fairlady Z Export Model". It has the ( non-vent type ) '240Z' pillar emblems, whereas the Japanese-market cars just had the round 'Z' emblem that looked a little bit like the later ( vented ) 'Z' emblem that ALL markets got when they went to vented pillars. Perhaps its too late at night for me to try to remember all this properly! Anyway, the 432 & 432R were emblemed in the same way as the other Fairlady models - but with the addition of the pot-metal ( later plastic ) '432' emblem above the 'Fairlady Z' emblem at the bottom of the front wings ( fenders ) and underneath the 'Fairlady Z' emblem on the rear hatch. If a rear spoiler was chosen then the '432' emblem usually went below the 'Fairlady Z' emblem on that too,( edit: although the 432R shown at the 1969 Press Preview event in Tokyo did not seem to have the '432' emblem on the rear spoiler, most production models with the spoiler DID have it ). There was a sticker-pack available for the 432R, which consisted of two black or white stripes fitting around '432' and 'Fairlady Z' emblems, which went along the lower part of the sides of the body. Very rare. Alan T.

Here's a close-up of one:

2Many, Common mistake about the Japanese-market cars, that. In fact, the 432 ( and 432R ) emblem was round, and it had a 'Z' in it, but it was NOT a vent. It was just a flat emblem, and a bit like the bonnet ( hood ) badge of the Japanese-market cars. Not quite the same though. In fact, all of the early Japanese-market cars had this round 'Z' emblem. They could not fit them with the '240z' emblem for obvious reasons. They fitted in the same holes as the early-type '240Z' emblem - so if you took the emblems off both cars you could swap them around. Its interesting that the later 'vented' emblem became round in shape again, like the original Japanese-market version. There must be a tale to be told about this, and I'm wondering whether it links in to the story of Mr K's 'editing' of the original emblems on the USA-market cars? Interesting isn't it? Alan T.

taikaki, If Kats does not mind, I can answer this for you with an immediate illustration. The 432 and 432R are included in my particular area of interest. The normal 432 ( PS30 model ) had a pressed steel Splash Pan. The 432R ( PS30-SB model ) model on the other hand had an FRP engine and transmission pan. It was tucked UNDER the front valance panel ( which was also FRP, and a slightly different shape to that of the 432 and other models ) and was fitted as much for aerodynamic reasons as for other functions, according to Japanese press reports and Factory descriptions of the period. Here's a picture of the 432R version from one of the Japanese Sports Option lists. They also fitted them to some of the Factory race cars ( Z432-R & 240ZR ) in Japan: Alan T.

Here's what happened to some of the prototypes at the Factory. Interesting details on the car. How many differences can you spot from the final production models? Alan T.

Kats, Great stuff. Keep it coming. This is 'proper' Z history. I'm still waiting to see the DEFINITIVE book on the early Z, and I hope Matsuo san will one day be able to find the time and the energy to put down in print the FULL story from the his point of view ( and that of his team ). I'm getting more and more encouraged that Matsuo san has kept enough documentation and evidence about the design, prototyping, and the early production of these cars to make a fascinating book. It would have to be the 'final word' on the subject - if that is even possible. Kats - you have been posting some great pics. Here's one for you by way of a 'thank you'. I know you have other pics of this car and this event - but maybe not one from this angle? Maybe you have............ Anyway, if you HAVE already got it, then I'm sure that others will be interested. I have always thought it was good fun to see the car emblemed up as a 'Datsun 240Z' as well as a "Fairlady Z Export Model" on the same car. Event is the 16th Tokyo Motor Show of 1969. All the best, Alan T.

taikaki ( who posted the original question ) now has a decision to make. I presume ( ? ) that based on his location, his car is a US-market version. He also stated that he has a "Dealer Option" Splash Pan. Does he paint it black, paint it grey, paint it silver, clear-coat bare steel or leave it to 'ripen' nicely with a smart coat of natural rust? Surely if its a "Dealer Option" ( and not originally supplied on his car ) he will paint it black? Is that the correct assumption of what is "correct"? Of course, if his car turns out to be a non-US version then it will be a slightly different matter. What have you got taikaki?:classic: Alan T.

Yes, lucky no.7 We don't have the whole building though. Just the dark and damp bit. Built in 1796 ( yes - 18th Century cardboard ). Alan T.

Good God, You lot live like lords. My place doesn't even have its own garage.......... Alan T.

Yep - Z Kid has given a good explanation on the yoke / flange question. Most of the early "A" type boxes had the bolt-together flange type ( with a sliding spline propshaft ) and most of the "B" type boxes had a sliding spline rear output with a solid propshaft. Gee, many thanks for offering to follow up on any enquiries I might have in Australia. That's very kind of you - I appreciate it. Cheers. Generally-speaking, I would define "Ex Works" as meaning the part / vehicle was actually USED / owned by the Factory Works rally or race teams. For example, my "OPTION 1" and "Rally Option" transmissions were never ( to my knowledge ) owned or used by Nissan's Factory race or rally teams - but they ARE genuine Sports Option "race" parts. Contrast this with for example my genuine 6pcs ex-Works magnesium "Rally Mag" wheels - which were indeed used on Factory run rally cars here in Europe. One of the team drivers 'liberated' them from the back of a Works service barge and put them away for a rainy day. Naughty naughty. Don't tell Nissan as they might want them back........... If anyone wants to buy my "Rally" Option box ( unused after mega-expensive full rebuild ) they are welcome to contact me, but might need to have a chair nearby so that they can sit down when I tell them the price............... Alan T.

Hi Joseph, I can't comment on the cover picture of Brian Long's book, as I think my edition has a different cover pic to yours? The car on the cover of my copy is at an angle where you can't see underneath at all. I think different markets got different covers? It may well be an official Factory press photo, in which case it would probably have been taken VERY early in production or even pre-production? Sometimes these press release photos showed details that were altered when they went into final production. I can think of an example of this; in the well-known Factory press and brochure shots of the HS30-H ( Fairlady 240ZG ) there is an easily-spotted difference between the spec pictured and that of the actual production cars. It means that you can't trust the press and brochure shots 100%.............. I'm still scratching my head about this bare metal finish for the Splash Pan though. Surely they would have started to go rusty before they even got on the car? Did they not have ANY kind of coating ( phosphate / electroplate / primer / clear lacquer? ) on them whatsoever? How come mine had a part number sticker OVER the black paint on the inside of it? My car was built early in 1972, and I don't think its a replacement part. Joseph, I'm not doubting your word and the finish of this part is something that I profess I am unsure about - but it does not make complete sense to me. I know Nissan left some parts on these cars unpainted, but they were usually concealed in areas that were either difficult to paint or were hidden by trim etc. It just does not seem to make sense that they would leave an easily-seen and substantial part to go rusty. Anybody got any thoughts on this? Alan T.

Yes - they are changing hands for quite high prices these days. They never were what you might call 'cheap', but they cost more now than they ever did. A full rebuild ( and I mean full, with all new synchros, bearings etc and proper blueprinting ) runs to a LOT of money. Can I ask if you think that guy's description of his box as a genuine "ex-Works" Option 1 box is accurate? What I mean is, do you think it really came from one of Nissan's Factory-backed race programmes, or is it just a loose description of a genuine Sports Option item? The reason I ask is that ( to people like me anyway ) there is a fairly big difference between ex-Team stuff and stuff that could be bought over the counter. Whenever I read or hear "ex-Works" I start getting excited and begin to think that if I follow the trail back I might find the holy grail of a genuine ex-Works car. Most of the time it proves not to be the case.:classic: Alan T.

Hi Gee, Yes - that's it. Sorry to hear yours is not an Option 1 after all. Warner synchros can't be bad as it seems to be a popular swap. Having said that, one of the BEST boxes that I have ever experienced in an early Z was an FS5C71-A "straight stick" box that had recently been rebuilt with the original Porsche type synchros. It had been blueprinted and assembled by a specialist who had really taken his time over it. Lovely. Alan T.

Er, I don't think so. If they were I think Australia would be a happy hunting ground for people like myself...........:classic: The "Option 1 Race Transmission" ( part no. 32010-N3220 ) was a Close-Ratio unit with a direct ( 1:1 ) fifth gear. Gear ratios were: 2.818 / 1.973 / 1.470 / 1.192 / 1.000 and they have a 'Dogleg' shift pattern ( 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th gears are arranged in the normal "H" pattern, with 1st gear on the 'Dogleg' sprung left and back ). This was useful for competition in that first gear would presumably be used only once, and then other gears could be used smoothly, quickly and safely with less chance of mis-shift and damage. The Factory called these direct-top "Option 1 / Option 2 / Option 3 & Rally" transmissions the "F5C71-B" - not to be confused with the "FS5C71-B" & "FS5W71-B" overdrive boxes. What might be confusing you is the fact that non-USA markets got the Close-Ratio Overdrive ( "CROD" 32010-N3130 ) and Wide-Ratio Overdrive ( "WROD" 32010-N3030 ) on standard cars before the USA did. Both these boxes were sold through Datsun Competition in the USA as 'Option' / Sports boxes when in fact they were standard equipment for other markets. Some of the 4-cylinder models ( like the 180B SSS as Z Kid pointed out ) got a different transmission that also had a 'Dogleg' shift pattern, and these are often confused with the true "Option" boxes. Complicated isn't it? Maybe I'm not explaining it properly. Alan T.

Amen to that. I reckon if anybody thinks they understand EVERYTHING about the detail changes of these cars then they probably do not know what they are talking about. We can get pretty close on some specs. ( based on reference with other cars ) but I can't see how anyone could say with 100% certainty what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' for each particular car that came off the line. Maybe we could get 99% there, but that last 1% is impossible to prove. Its fun to TRY and understand it all, and people like us should keep discussing it and throwing ideas and evidence around. In the end, some of it starts to make sense. With regard to the Splash Pan ( "BOARD-Splash" or "Splash Board - Engine Lower" according to the Factory ) - it is listed in the 1969-on parts lists for the Japanese domestic market. I think most Japanese domestic market models had them from the very beginning of production, along with other markets that were expected to be "wet" ( like the UK! ). They get beaten-up pretty easily and fall foul of the demon rust at their mounting points, so they are probably missing from a lot of cars that originally had them. Here's a pic from the 1969 Japanese parts list: Alan T.

Hi Gee, I have two "Option" boxes ( one is an 'Option 1' direct top, and the other is the 'Rally' option direct top ). What you have described seems to be quite popular now. The later Warner type synchros last much longer and are cheaper too. In some cases, the parts for the early Option boxes are no longer available. A friend of mine has just rebuilt his 'Rally' Option box with the Warners, and he reports that it feels great. He was expecting that it might not be as good as the original Porsche type synchros ( he was expecting slower shifts ) but he says that it is just as good as it ever was. I don't know about 'stronger' - but the Warner synchros should not have the teeth fall off them like the Porsche ones sometimes do. It will probably stand up better to punishment. I've got this type of rebuild to look forward to ( not! ) in the near future on my Option 1 too. Good luck! Alan T.

This is curious. Like most Japanese domestic market models, my ZG had the Splash Pan fitted from the Factory. The Factory actually called it "BOARD-splash" part no. 78410-E4100. I took it off to paint it last year, and took it back to bare metal. It had a very Factory-looking coat of semi-gloss black paint on the inside, and somebody had hand-painted the outside at least once in the past. The inside paint was covered with a nice layer of accumulated oil and dust residue that had protected it. There was an original Factory part number sticker still attached to the inside, and it was attached OVER the layer of semi-gloss black paint. When I got my first early Z car ( a 1971 UK-market HS30 ) it too had a VERY scruffy Splash Pan on it, and that was also semi-gloss black painted. Something about that paint looked "Factory" to me. It just looked like a nice thin protective layer in the 'correct' colour. I don't know if anyone will grasp what I mean when I say it LOOKED Factory / original finish - but that's what I am trying to get across. When you buy Nissan parts as spares, I have noticed that they are often supplied in a different finish to how they were when they came attached to the car. When they were putting cars together at the Factory, they did not have to worry about how the parts would fare in storage; they just put them together and painted them with the rest of the car. Parts that went into the spare parts network were sometimes painted or plated to protect them in storage. I would cite bonnet hinges and tailgate hinges as an example of this; when you buy new bonnet hinges from Nissan they come in the gold-passivated Zinc finish that so many other parts come in. When they were originally attached to a car on the production line I BELIEVE they were NOT plated - and were just painted on the car. Maybe they had a thin layer of primer at the point they were manufactured, but I don't think they were electroplated. So, what I am saying is that I think the situation for parts bought over the spares counter, and parts that were originally attached to the car on the production line, is different on a case-by-case basis. I think this must confuse the situation as regards to what is the correct "Factory" finish for an assembled car? Having said all the above, its curious that Joseph's story details a different ( opposite ) case to what you might expect. I would have expected that a part coming through the official Nissan spares system would have been protected in some way whilst in storage / transport. It would not surprise me to learn that Nissan put the Splash Pans on the cars at assembly time without painting them ( seems they did a fair bit of that ) but I would have expected a spare one to be at least primed or phosphate coated like the Factory replacement body panels were? Another conundrum! Alan T.

Robot voice:"I have already made my position quite clear with regard to this piece of audiovisual entertainment". I think we did it to death ( and I made enough enemies ) last time we disgusted - er sorry - discussed it. Wasn't the conclusion that it was an American production and therefore it would naturally reflect the American viewpoint? I think its always a missed opportunity when they make these kinds of films. The researchers naturally refer to books and magazine articles, and you get the same stuff being repeated until it becomes truth. If anything, I would have thought that a film about Yukata Katayama and his life would have been just as valid. NHK in Japan did a similar film as part of their "Project X" series a few years ago, and to their credit they did at least bring a few more relevant people into the story. However - they still cocked it up by making lots of gaffes. Shame. Nobody's immune. When I went to the "Sports Car Graffiti" event at Nissan's Ginza showrooms a couple of months ago, I saw that whoever had written out the show placards that accompanied some static displays had gone and copied the oft-repeated spelling mistakes that you see in many books and mag articles ( and on the web ). The worst was the wrong spelling of the name of "Kaishinsha" as "Kwaishinsha" - which you see EVERYWHERE. If Nissan can't even get it right themselves then what chance does anyone else stand? Everybody's eyes have glazed over already and its time for my medication, straight-jacket and padded cell. So I'll stop. Alan T.

Hi Nick, Basically, what I'm describing as unsuitable is ( yes ) the amount of wheel rim that 'sticks out'............. On these particular wheels ( his 6J on the front - not the 6.5J on the rear ) the offset is either zero or 'positive'. That suits the smaller Nissan models, but not really the Z. I'm sure they would fit - but they just would not look as good as a wheel that has a bit more 'negative' offset. Its only my opinion, and should not put anyone off making a bid of they want to. Its only a visual consideration. In my opinion ( and take that for what you will ) the R.S.Watanabe 8-spoke ( "Hachi-Spo" ) design looks better on an early Z when it starts getting a little wider than 6J. Watanabe made a bewildering amount of sizes and offsets in this design over the years ( yes - they started making wheels in the Sixties ) and have altered the design slightly for some sizes down the years too. I think a nice size for the early Z is 7J or 7.5J - and 15 inch is probably easier to find tyres for than 14 inch these days. 8J x 14 & 15 look tough, and once you get up to these sizes the 'negative offset' starts becoming more apparent. They really do look more deeply 'dished' - as we used to say. The Minilite style changed over the years too, and some of the very early ones looked almost 'flat' too - with quite fat and round spokes. The ones they are making now look quite different to that. The Panasports are not my specialist area ( ask one of our American friends about those ) and I think the Superlites look rather 'heavy' with their 10 spokes and wide centre casting. These days you can also get the Compomotive "ML" design ( made in UK ) which, as its name suggests, is rather like the Minilite. The Watanabes have a spoke profile that is slightly peaked, and it helps it to look lighter and more airy ( I think so, anyway ). If you look at different sizes and offsets, they sometimes change the way and position that the spokes join the outer rim. As long as you keep them in pairs ( per axle ) then all is usually OK. There have been a fair few other similar-looking Japanese wheels over the years too. Enkei made a very similar 8-spoked design in the mid-Seventies, and Black Racing ( BR ) also made a very similar design in the mid-Eighties while R.S.Watanabe were technically out of business. The Watanabes have been made in both Aluminium alloy and Magnesium. Most of the time you tend to find the Aluminium ones for sale rather than the Mag ones. The Mag ones are immensely strong but brittle, whereas the Aluminium ones tend to bend and are easier to repair. Mag is probably not the best choice for everyday use. Watanabe have gone bust and come back at least once to my knowledge ( maybe more than that ), and I'm pleased they are still making wheels. They are also pretty well in-touch with their heritage - which is good to see. If you need more info then drop me a PM and I could try to put together some detail photos for you as reference? To sum up ( and try to answer your main question ) - the more 'negative' the Offset - the more the wheel rim looks 'deeper' to the eye. 'Offset' and 'Backspacing' are essentially the same thing, and they are a measurement of the distance between the true centre line of the wheel and the hub mounting face at the rear of the wheel. Hope that makes sense. All the best, Alan T.

They are packed up in their original boxes ( a bit ragged ) and stashed in one of my garages. I'll be going over there tomorrow. I'll take some digital photos and some measurements and e-mail them to you. They are the old "Adjustable-D" ( or was it "D-Adjustable" ) that I don't think you can get any more ( not sure about that ). They are not gas though - they are oil type. You have to set them BEFORE they are on the car, by pushing the rod all the way to the bottom and then turning it. Know the ones I mean? I'll ship them to you gratis if you want them. I'll get photos and measurements to you tomorrow. Alan T.

Mr Camouflage posted a link to these and the sellers' other set a couple of days ago. I think the 6J size is not going to look too good on a Z, as the offset / backspacing is not really suited. The 6.5J would be OK though, as the offset backspacing in that width is ideal. I have a set of 6.5J x 14 RS Watanabe 8-spokes, and they used to be fitted to my old everyday-driver Z. You can see what they looked like on the car here: 6.5j x 14 Watanabe on 73 240Z Alan T.