HS30-H

OK, I'll take a shot at explaining to you. My gut reaction (hey, I'm a Kerouac fan, I do stream of consciousness...) was that he is used to telling people all about his "HAKO clone", and that they usually swallow it whole because they've only seen such cars in video games. Hence his 'Wikipedia' comment. Maybe that usually works for him. Not this time. He had no idea that I own a genuine KPGC10 GT-R. OK it's not a poker game, but... I know a bit about C10-series Skylines. I'm going to chew a little before I swallow. I think post #60 is a very wise take on all this. What did he bring to the party? At least bring a bottle. I'd say he didn't want to come in the first place. Part of his first response to me was to note that I'm a 'Supporting Member'. So what? He actually insulted all of us and the forum itself with his Wikipedia comment, as though he was somehow *better*. He wasn't. I'll go a little further (what harm?). People who show up with photos of their 'portfolio' are usually jacks of all trades and masters of none. I don't trust them. There was a similar instance a few months back with a guy trying to sell an S30 Fairlady Z, telling all sorts of stories (ex-race car etc etc) and once he had showed photos of his - and I'll be polite here - somewhat unfocused 'collection' of old cars and his real estate, people here were falling over themselves to compliment him. Somehow that stuff seems to turn heads and make eyes flutter. He too was here to use the forum in the same way as a dog uses a lamp post. Just passing through... But, I'm willing to learn. How would you have advised me to respond? My original point still stands; his term "HAKO clone" makes no sense. What should have followed? A bouquet and a polite note?

Oh, and by the way, This Aint No Party, This Ain't No Disco, This Ain't No Foolin' Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jShMQw2H2cM What a performance...

Either you missed his professed antipathy to forums early in the thread (precis: "I'm usually above all this, but I'm looking for a car...") or you yourself are suffering from a slight dose of cognitive bias. He was only here looking for something. He got it. He doesn't like forums. He's probably not coming back. I didn't push him out. He didn't want to be part of our little tree house community in the first place. Overnight, rain comes and washes away the dog pee from the lamp post. Life goes on. There's probably a Talking Heads lyric that deals with it...

Too late. I've already invested in my outfit. Only other alternative that would work for me is Roman Empire.

Assumptions? Your comeback to a friendly correction included the line "...and to truly clarify further for those whose only reference for these particular cars is Wikipedia...". Pitching up as a newbie on a specialist forum and assuming that its members rely on Wikipedia is - and I'm being polite here - slightly gauche, don't you think? QED. That's what started this. All the stuff about personal contacts, face to face interaction and picking up the phone is nice, but it is not exclusive to non-forum people. I'm guessing it's the same for 99% of the people who inhabit this forum, because it's all part of the same world. We may laugh at the short attention span of Facebook users, but they are by and large the same people we interact with here, elsewhere and yes....in 'real life'.

I suggest you create a dedicated thread to see if this idea would fly. All sorts of hilarity might well ensue, but at least we will find out exactly who would step up onto the stage and profess to being "a purist". Our new friend 'pazt2prezent' certainly 'came out' up-thread, so he could be Member Number One. Any other volunteers? Who's going to administrate? Someone will have to play the part of Torquemada and decide who is a proper purist and who isn't, and when will we have our first auto-da-fé...? To be serious for a moment - this is a marque and series/model-dedicated automotive-themed forum. Nobody should be surprised, let alone scared of a little robust debate every now and then. Maybe it would help to think of it as a Wild West saloon bar occasionally? If Florida Fred bursts in with his green alligator boots on, starts twirling his pearl-handled guns around and asking for a hot lady to be served up on a plate, I'd expect someone to knock his silly hat off. Instead we have a bunch of cowboys buying him drinks and asking him for a date. What happened...!? No, the truth is we actually get along with all this very well. That's probably one of the reasons that 'pazt2prezent' chose to drop in here, despite his professed antipathy towards forums. We know our onions here, don't we? It didn't get that way by meek acceptance of mistakes, falsehoods and revisionist schmistory. There's nothing wrong in trying to get it right. Anyone who pitches up from nowhere and tries to teach Grandma how to suck eggs should have their hide handed to them on a plate. That's really the way all of this works.

A quote for posterity from one of the very people who try to do just that very thing... Presumably you think irony is the hot thing the laundry uses on your shirts.

Oh, and you are 'Cruisin' Cars Inc.' - right? Was that early bird for your 'collection', or for your inventory...?

Your point being what, exactly? If people are telling our fellow member EuroDat that his HLS30 Datsun 280Z "is not a real S30" then they are clearly wrong. We should all rail against such ignorance and attempt to correct it if we have the opportunity. Let me at 'em...

Two things: First of all, you wrote "HAKO clone" and THAT is what I initially corrected (in a fairly friendly manner, I believe). It was your response to that correction which got us off on the wrong foot (especially your "...for those whose only reference for these particular cars is Wikipedia." comment). Don't try to move the goalposts by changing it to "Hakosuka "clone"", as that is a whole other scenario. It's really simple, isn't it? Your car cannot be a "HAKO clone" (ie, a clone of a Hakosuka) because it is always has been a 'Hakosuka' Skyline. Your car is simply a lesser model dolled up (or down, if you prefer) to look like a GT-R. Why not just admit that fact? All the smoke, mirrors and cod justification takes away from what I'm sure is a very nice car. Just be real about what you've got. As I said before, if you don't like it then you should have bought a real GT-R in the first place. Secondly, you have to expect to get some if you give some. Whining about forums as though you are somehow above them, whilst making use of one for your particular requirements, is - again! - delicious irony. For the record, if we met face to face and you told me your car is a "HAKO clone" I'd do the same as I've done here and correct you. I'd correct you on all the other stuff you came out with about Sport Corner, NISMO, the GT-Kai emblem and your inference that we are Wikipedia-referencing neophytes too. It might be interesting to share a cup of tea with a self-professed "purist" though. Most of the car people I hang around with would rather claim to be pragmatists...

This is a specialist forum. Those sailing blithely into such waters might be well advised to pay attention to the charts. 'Here be Monsters'. "...and to truly clarify further for those whose only reference for these particular cars is Wikipedia..." was perhaps - in retrospect - a little unwise, don't you think?

How does any of the above make the term "HAKO clone" appropriate? It's a misnomer when applied to any C10-series Skyline, because ALL C10-series Skylines are - by definition - 'Hakosuka' Skylines. Your "more powerful swap appropriate for the car culture of the time" raised a smile here. What "time" are we talking about? Nobody was putting modified L28 engines into C10-series Skylines whilst they were still in production. That's a phenomenon that didn't really get going until the late 1970s, and even then sparsely and in semi-legal street car culture - not racing. Most cars like yours are fairly recent confections which - let's be honest here - bask in the reflected glory of what the GT-R models achieved and signified in period (ie, when they were still in production), and are based on - again, let's be honest about it - models with no real sporting heritage of their own. Calling yourself a "purist" in the same sentence where you explain your 'GT-Kai' emblem is deliciously ironic. Those 'GT-Kai' emblems are another recent phenomenon, produced in response to exactly the kind of gentle correction I made when I pointed out that the term "HAKO clone" makes no logical sense. GT-R owners have been ribbing the owners of wannabes and lookalikes for years, telling them to take the GT-R emblems off their dolled-up shopping cars. The 'GT-Kai' emblems are an in-joke that goes way over the heads of many. I've even seen a magazine article written by a journalist who believed the 'GT-Kai' was a legitimate factory variant. I can't help thinking that any self-respecting "purist" would balk at the idea of a GT-X having its surflines cut off to become another GT-R lookalike, but there you go... There's some irony in your car wearing a 'Sport Corner' badge too. See that big 'R' in the middle of it? It represents the GT-R models which the Nissan Prince Tokyo Sport Corner dealership specialised in selling and servicing. Your car - being a lesser model - would have been sold in an ordinary dealership, and if you had taken it to Nissan Prince Tokyo Sport Corner for servicing they would have told you to take it elsewhere. Politely, I'm sure. Meanwhile, back here in 2018, there are owners of cars which were sold and serviced by Sport Corner dealers in period who are taking their Sport Corner stickers off of their cars, because too many of the wannabe cars are wearing them. There's a nice in-joke variant - produced recently - with a big letter 'L' in the middle. It might suit your car. While I'm at it, let's get the heritage of NISMO correct shall we? What became NISMO in 1984 was previously two distinct branches of Nissan's motorsport-related activities - essentially the artists formerly known as Prince (based at Murayama) and Nissan's own Works outfit (based at Oppama). The Omori, Tokyo base of the newly-named NISMO was previously known as 'Nissan Omori Works' and was nothing to do with the main Nissan Prince Tokyo 'Sport Corner' dealership. They were two quite distinct entities and existed, until quite recently, in parallel. Nissan Prince Tokyo didn't beget NISMO. My KPGC10 was rebuilt by an ex Nissan Prince Tokyo Sport Corner staff member, so I know a little bit about the subject.

If I have any "problems" on this forum it'll be with people who don't understand the difference between fact and fiction. You now seem to be supporting the idea of fiction as fact. You're backing the wrong horse. The car in question was being described as a "HAKO clone" when the truth is that it left the factory as a C10-series Skyline, and the vernacular 'Hakosuka' applies to ALL C10-series Skylines - regardless of model variant. He is misusing the term. Try describing a 1970 HLS30U as a "Series 1 240Z clone" and see what happens. People will - inevitably - point out the it can't be a "Series 1 240Z clone" when it already IS a 'Series 1 240Z'. That's what we are dealing with here.

Ah, you've taken my correction as some kind of insult I see. Sorry but, as the owner of a genuine KPGC10, I have to stick up for what's right. The term "Hako clone" means only one thing to me, and in you car's case it is clearly inappropriate. Your car left the factory as a C10-series Skyline and it is still a C10-series Skyline. It's left the factory as a 'Hakosuka' and it is still a 'Hakosuka'. If it's a "clone" (actually, merely a lookalike despite your exhortations...) of anything then it's a clone of a KPGC10 GT-R. If you see this as nothing more than "nit picking" then you should probably have bought a genuine KPGC10 in the first place.

My OCD compels me to point out that every C10-series Skyline is a 'Hako'. The vernacular 'Hakosuka' applies to the whole series, no matter what variant. It's either a Hokosuka or it isn't. Your 'Hako' appears to be a (very nice!) GT-R lookalike. There. Said it. And breathe... Love the Pao!

What model/market/build date is the particular car concerned?

As mentioned, I've got both. Hopefully your blonde has matching collar and cuffs.

The same place you are, by the looks of things. I get that you don't like the look of them (even if nobody asked...) but I don't agree that they "get in the way" any more than any other externally-mounted mirror does. And I own and use cars with both factory fender mirrors and factory door mirrors, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Only by lazy or oblivious owners. The factory documentation for the MK63-20S advises on how to trim and re-shape the backing plates to suit.

And presumably you don't find it is "...one more thing to have to work around."..? I have never found the factory-fitted fender mirrors on my cars to have got in my way. As with the mirror on your door, I just sub-consciously work around them. Unless you find yourself walking into your door mirror all the time?

And you have your mirror(s) where, exactly...?

It's for the S20 engine in the PS30 Fairlady Z432 and PS30-SB Fairlady Z432-R, which used transitorised ignition systems. The blue dot marks peak torque (5,600rpm) and the red dot marks peak power (7,000rpm).

I think it's an example of 'Auction Fever', Kats. A typical perfect storm of unwarranted hype ("Barn Find", 'Vintage Z', 'Famous-in-Japan owner') and timing (big hoo-ha auction connected to Tokyo Auto Salon, so all the big car guys are 'in town'...) that is hard to replicate. Elsewhere people are marvelling at the price achieved for the 10km-from-new R34 GT-R too, and thinking - probably mistakenly - that it makes their R34 GT-R equally as valuable. Truth be told, better Zs than the two VZ cars could be bought at much lower prices, but the buyer(s) likely don't really know or even care. It's often the case in car auctions, and I hate them. At least the people at a livestock auction know something about what they are buying... Yes, I feel a bit sorry for the cars too but I feel even more sorry for the KPGC10s and PS30s that went across the block in the USA over the last couple of years. Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under your feet and turn and tear you to pieces".

Is the car actually going to be used in anger as a rally car, or is it more of a 'looks' thing? If it is for serious use then I could give some recommendations, but if it's just a looks thing you could build your own setup with a few pointers.

Good! However, it still looks a little close to the exhaust manifold to me. I'm thinking that the engine needs some space to twist in torque reaction (pivoting on an axis through the crankshaft centre line and transmission main shaft) and you may need to 'cheat' a little extra space by shimming the engine mounts a little more away from the steering shaft? I think you have space to do that.