HS30-H

Here's one of several previous classiczcars.com threads where they have been discussed in the past: http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/3621-fog-lamp-switch/

Like I said, you're playing the man not the ball.

Maybe so, but that's the auction environment for you. I could counter by putting forward the possibility that the previous - long term, Japanese - owner undersold it. In any case, asking prices and selling prices of 432s (and 432-Rs...) have been rising steadily for years and high profile cases like this one will reinforce that. The 'blue bullet holes' were evidence of (I believe) the previously-fitted aftermarket ignition system. It was an Ultra MDI system, if I remember correctly from when I saw the car in Japan. As presented, the car was probably not that different to how it was in the hands of the previous owner in Japan: A regularly used and 'honest' classic, with a number of "incorrect" details that would theoretically mark it down in a concours competition but - like all my cars and like many of ours I'm sure - didn't bother the previous long-term owner too much. It's perhaps surprising (or maybe not...) that the seller didn't put a few things more 'right' (I'm thinking the top radiator hose, the plug leads and stuff like that) before the auction, but at least it gives the new owner a chance to put some work into it if he wants.

As before, you're making this more about me than the car itself. Things would still be the way they are even if I didn't exist. What's this nonsense about making me special? It's laughable. The world doesn't work like that. You - and your pal Blue - are concentrating on playing the man rather than the ball. Just like the diamond/Matisse/Patek Phillipe analogy, it's how human society works and unless you go to live in a mud hut and opt out of society you will have to buy into the economics of it to some extent. The products that you use every day - even the food you eat - is subject to market forces and the 'hype' that you point at. If you bought into the idea of the 'cheap, affordable and uncomplicated sports car' (and I presume you did, since you are here...) then you've bought into exactly the same system that causes somebody to pay the price that's just been paid for the Amelia 432. It's just a matter of degree. So yes, I'll take that 'mystique' thank you very much. It's the same mystique that causes a Porsche 911R to change hands for more than a 911L, and the Patek change hands for more than the G-Shock. You might want to sit down before I tell you this, but here's another newsflash: The PS30 Fairlady Z 432 IS "a Z with different badging." Go back to late 1969 and have another look. Nissan designed, engineered, built and sold a family of models at launch. They were all Zs. What you call "The Datsun community" is - if recent experience is anything to go on - still living under a rock. Most of them haven't got the faintest clue about the model we are discussing, and I reckon 99.99% of first generation Z owners don't even realise that many parts and details on their cars are the way the are because other models in other markets were also on the drawing board and factory floor at the same time. So I counter your inverted snobbery of "pretentiousness" by pointing at that ignorance. By calling the buyer a "sucker" you're making a judgement that I believe you don't have enough information to make. That 250-odd thousand may be chump change to him, or not. He might drink bottles of wine that cost as much, or he may not. He may wear a Patek Phillipe, he may wear a G-Shock. You never know - he might be the kind of guy who owns and wears both and knows the 'value' of both in all senses. It seems to me that you're heading down the road that leads to Philistinism, and in that case I'll wave you on your way and wish you good luck.

Get back in your radio shack, Radar.

Depends who's writing the 'history', doesn't it? If it's a single-source, non peer-group critiqued specialist website, then probably the one the author thought was the only one until relatively recently...

No $^!#, Sherlock. The mistake you are making is to comment on the 432 as though it has become something else overnight, simply because somebody paid a high price for one and it popped up on your radar screen. Newsflash: The 432 - along with several other Japanese market S30-series Z models - has always changed hands for higher prices than your equivalent year HLS30-U. Nothing has changed except your perception of what they are 'worth' in comparison with the 'price' that somebody just paid. As I said before, welcome to November 1969. There's a whole family of models that has just been launched, and guess which one is the most expensive? Guess which one is the most sporting package, the most complete sporting driver's car? Here's a clue: It's not the dumbed down, softened up and de-contented HLS30-U. If you're looking for Emperor's New Clothes, why not comment on the 3+ million Dollar Ferraris and the like that were in the same auction? Moonpup probably doesn't like this.

No need to wind a G-Shock... You'd have to go some to wind me up any more than the sillier Facebook comments do. It's like the Flat Earth Society out there.

Quite. He's quite clearly mixing his super lightweight PZRs up with his full fat PZs. Probably wears a G-Shock 'cos it's "better".

Nope. Not just the engine. It's the whole package. Including the chassis prefix. If anybody who is a member of classiczcars.com doesn't get it, then I have to wonder why they are a member of classiczcars.com.

You could ask the same thing about anything. Why would you want a vintage Patek Philippe when a G-Shock keeps better time? Why would you want a painting by Matisse hanging on your wall when that poster of the tennis girl pulling her panties out of her crack is so much cheaper? Next from you: "Diamonds? They're just rocks, man...!"

In the spirit of what? The only fibreglass pieces on a 1969/70 PS30 Fairlady Z 432 are the headlamp cases / 'sugar scoops'. Same as on any Z built in that same period. Part of the fallout from the chatter about this sale is the revelation that people still don't know what they are talking about with regard to these cars. The amount of people who are mixing up specs and details between PS30s and PS30-SBs is unreal, and apocryphal stories are popping up all over. Just yesterday there was a guy on Facebook who was convinced that 432s had been sold in a primer finish so that "race teams" could paint them as they chose. Where in heaven's name did he get that from?

Moot point. It was sold where it was and how it was, and was bought (and underbid) by who it was. Doesn't make it any more or less of a car. At half that sale price, or double, it would still be an important and rare piece of the jigsaw puzzle that is the story of these cars. Unless you think a high auction price suddenly changes what this car has always been?

It really didn't break anything, except perhaps the bubble of self-certified complacency that has believed the HLS30 'Datsun 240Z' was the whole story and that nothing else mattered. So, welcome to 1969.

Correct in the case of the B680X, but incorrect in the case of the L20 itself. Lots of other small inaccuracies on earlydatsun.com. Be careful of single-source, non peer-group critiqued websites. Best to cross-reference from multiple independent sources.

Even calling him the "architect" is going too far. It's too late to turn back the clock now, but ideally we'd be going back to Year Zero and simply not thinking of Yutaka Katayama as being any kind of product creator. Katayama had no such remit. He simply wasn't tasked with being a product planner, and nor was any Vice President or President of NMC-USA during the period before Nissan started manufacturing automobiles in the USA. Not only that, but the cars that Katayama's name has been synonymous with (namely the 510-series Bluebird and the S30-series Z) were not created at his sole request or designed and engineered solely for one market. In fact, during the period we are talking about - and for long afterward - there were no vehicles that were conceived, designed and engineered solely for the USA market that Katayama was responsible for when he was President. The 510 and S30 would have been created whether Katayama existed or not. Perhaps we could argue that they might not have been quite the same, but it's unlikely - if not impossible - that Nissan would not have had updated and re-designed Bluebirds and Fairladies (take those 'Bluebird' and 'Fairlady' emblems off and stick a '510' and '240' in their place if you want) to bring to market to meet new laws and regulations as well as consumer expectations. A big company like Nissan had to have models in those market sectors. After all, it had everything else in its line-up. I don't think the Steve Jobs / Bill Gates comparison stands up to scrutiny as Katayama was never the 'boss' of a company which designed and built the product it sold whilst he was boss. He was President of NMC-USA from 1965 to 1975, and during that period NMC-USA could only lobby Nissan Motors Japan for influence over what it wanted to sell, and that had to fit into the bigger picture - ie what was possible and what was convenient considering Nissan's other Export commitments and - most importantly for a Japanese auto maker in that period - its Domestic activities. Somehow we have arrived at a situation where a great man - a seminal figure in Nissan's history - is being remembered for the wrong reasons. Platitudes "thanking" Katayama for giving/bringing/creating certain cars are well-intentioned but are starting out with a premise that is mistaken. In contrast, the tributes from the likes of Bob Bondurant and Pete Brock tell of their personal respect for the man, and how he was both a help and an inspiration to them and their work. That's the kind of thing we should be remembering him for. It was Yutaka Katayama's fine work (along with that of Soichi Kawazoe and many others) in building NMC-USA's dealer and servicing network, and in being the friendly, approachable and trustworthy face of an otherwise slightly anonymous and deeply foreign company that was the big achievement here. They sold the product. MNC-USA could probably have sold plenty of product in the north American market during the period we are talking about, but if it wasn't for Katayama we probably wouldn't hold it in quite the same affection as we do. There's plenty more I could write on the subject - and it's a BIG subject - but people see much of this as some kind of attack on Katayama and his memory. That's not the intention, and I hope that - in time - we will start to understand Yutaka Katayama's life and legacy in a more realistic and accurate way. I think all great men deserve that.

And so am I.

This was Rob Janssen's personal car, with his own modifications, wasn't it? I notice they repeated the mistake with regard to the diff. ratio: They state 3.363:1, when this car had the FS5C71-A transmission and the 3.9:1 diff. ratio.

Except that he wasn't. The 'Mr Yamura' character in the film 'Grand Prix' is a composite of the real-life Yoshio Nakamura (Honda Grand Prix team chief) and Soichiro Honda himself. The fictional team 'Yamura Motors' is clearly based on Honda, and the Yamura GP cars carry Yamura's name on them. Both Nakamura and Honda were engineers. Katayama was not an engineer, a designer, 'stylist' or product planner, and the cars we talk about here are not called 'Katayamas'. So, Mr K. was not a bit like 'Mr Yamura'.

Excellent. Best tribute I've seen yet.

But he is - mistakenly - being credited as a "designer": ...which is untrue. Where does this misinformation come from? Is it in fact just a misunderstanding that stems from being called "The Father Of The Z"...? I've sent a comment to Hagerty, but it hasn't been acknowledged yet.

Yes, but it's WRONG.

Fffffffffffffffffff...... FACTORY.

You've got that the wrong way around: 4-speed diff ratio is 3.364:1 and 5-speed diff ratio is 3.9:1 (4.44:1 with S20 engine).

I've tried contributing to Wikipedia in the past (notably on the subject of Albrecht Goertz) but my input was soon edited back again. Far better to make sure that we have the correct information here. And unlike Wikipedia, we have the knowledge, ability and format to discuss topics at length - with supporting evidence in the form of documents and photos - and come to a conclusion (or at least an 'open verdict' on the more contentious points) and all this can be accessed and researched. We have it here. Please don't lose sight of that.