HS30-H

Hi Mike, I'm wary of generalising about the Australian and NZ markets, as it seems like the situations and specs there were even more 'rubbery' than elsewhere. I know what I see in the R-Drive parts lists, but - as we know - there were always exceptions and anomalies. Maybe somebody from those territories might like to comment? As far as the UK market was concerned, I think the situation was that the dealers usually made what little choice was available from the concessionaires, and the customers simply chose the car they liked 'as is' from the showroom floor or asked for a particular colour to be sent from Japan ( which would have taken a long time ). As far as factory-fitted 'options' were concerned, I believe Datsun UK Concessionaires actively discouraged most of the dealers from dabbling in complicated orders. The family of one of my good friends here were one of the original UK Datsun dealers, and I'm told they were aware of certain options but had trouble getting exactly what they wanted. I believe the standard UK market spec cars were seen as being a good package for the period anyway. Standard spec included the 5-speed transmissions and 3.9:1 diff ratio, and they had the 'firm' springing, damping and ARBs. They came with the clock, radio, electric antenna, heated rear window and carpets, and the front and rear spoilers were also stock. This was seen as a pretty good specification in comparison to British or European models of the time. Many buyers would have wanted to change the wheels, but there was a big choice of aftermarket wheels available here anyway. This was something the buyers could do themselves, rather than pay the dealer to do..... So, generally speaking, little or no true 'Factory Options' for the UK market cars.... Alan T.

Discussions surrounding the definition of the term "Factory" - as it relates to 'our' cars - were, as far as I remember, quite important for classiczcars.com. I think we all learned something from it ( OK - maybe not everybody...... ) and the legacy of that runs far beyond any "F-word" or "Factory Police" jokes. The word may raise both smiles and hackles here, but I think it is important that we all appreciate just what it means in reference to the cars that we are discussing here. That's what it all comes down to. Depends what market you are talking about. For the Japanese market, true factory options were very far from being mythical. These are all Japanese cars we are talking about here, and they were sold in many parts of the world. Parts and specs were sometimes shared between different market models, and the existence of certain specs and options in one market model often affected the details of another market model, whether those 'options' were fitted or not. Ignore the big picture, and you probably won't understand what you have in front of you. Sweeping generalisations about these details are very likely to be wrong, so it's usually worth pointing out the specific market / model you are referring to when you come out with statements like this: See? Madame Guillotine has passed her judgement, and your head is now laying in a basket at her feet. Does anything need changing? We've discussed the topic of 'Options' ( and for most markets ) many times on classiczcars, and much interesting data can be found by using the SEARCH function of the site. Here are a couple of examples: First Japanese 'home' market options for S30-series Z models: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14422 Japanese 'home' market options on introduction of HS30 models: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14501 Alan T.

'S30-101781' would be correct for an 'S30-S' model 'Fairlady Z-L' ( 'ZDx' / Deluxe ) or an 'S30' model 'Fairlady Z' ( 'ZS' / Standard ) built very early in 1973 ( most likely January 1973 ). Body serial numbers for the Japanese market cars changed from five digit to six digit at the beginning of 1972, so the six digit serial on your car would be seem to be correct. It would have come from the factory with the L20A engine. Other specs will have depended on whether it was the Deluxe or Standard model, and what showroom options the original purchaser chose when he ordered the car new. A good look through the parts with the car, and the car itself, should give you some clues as to whether it was the base 'Fairlady Z' or the better-equipped 'Fairlady Z-L' when it was new. We've discussed these cars on the forum many times in the past, and the search function should reveal many threads with useful data. I wouldn't place too much hope in finding any information about the car on zhome.com if I were you. If you get stuck, give me a shout and I'll do my best to help. I've got a 1970-build Fairlady Z-L and a couple of other Japanese market Zs, and a fair bit of literature on them. I'm afraid it's hard to give an estimate on value without knowing the condition of the body, and without knowing what's missing...... Cheers, Alan T.

For the sake of completeness, here is what the chart says: Two rows reading from the left can be read as 'Stock' above, and 'Modified' below that. The column headings, left to right, can be read as 'D hole dia.', then 'L1 length', then 'L2 length', and finally 'Pedal Ratio'. The notes underneath point out that - roughly translated - "Accelerator and brake pedal settings should be set according to driver preference", and that "When pedal stroke is decreased, pedal effort increases". It also mentions a pedal pressure example of 30kg effort translating to a 0.1g decrease in speed for the above mods, and recommends 'Golden Cruiser HWB-II' brake fluid ( which is obviously the Unfair Advantage we are all missing ). Personally speaking, I'm not messing about with manual brakes on any of my cars - 'track oriented' or not. I'm sticking with the FIA-legal vented type MK63s and the small Master Vac, and 'stock' master cylinder sizes. All I'll mess about with is the friction material of the pads. I'm a fan of ENDLESS pads since I got a few sets for free....... Alan T.

Glad if I can be of some practical use occasionally! Here's a scan from a page in one of the Nissan Sports prep manuals from the early Seventies. I think It's fairly self-explanatory. If any questions, fire away:

The normal 'production' spec of the PS30-SB 'Fairlady Z432-R had no Master Vac booster, but had a unique master cylinder ( 3/4" ) and brake pedal assembly. The brake pedal itself had a different operating leverage ratio, and a stronger clevis pin: 46520-E4100 PEDAL arse'Y BRAKE ( PZR ) 46123-08700 PIN-CLEVIS ( PZR ) 46010-E4101 CYL-arse'Y - tandem brake master ( PZR ) Of course, some people who bought a 432R new requested the Master Vac be fitted for 'normal' street driving, and this is why we sometimes see them fitted to surviving PZRs. It was mainly done to save weight on the homologation of the PZR model for the JAF 'GTS' class. Nissan homologated the PZR for the 'Special GT' class at a weight of 855kg, which was not all that easy to get down to...... Factory 'works' and privateer / works-supported PZRs all used the Sumitomo MK63-20S four-pot front brake calipers with ventilated discs when racing, and first of all these were used without a Master Vac. This gave a very heavy pedal ( relieved a little by the brake pedal leverage ratio ) but it was reportedly more consistent in feel than the Master Vac-assisted setup. Alan T.

I wouldn't say no to "#13".....

Walter, I have nothing to gloat about. It's good that we can have a fair and frank exchange of views and opinions on this forum without fear of being edited, subbed or even deleted altogether ( unlike some other forums.... ) and I believe the bottom line is that we all respect eachother. We don't always have to agree. Some of these topics are subjective, and opinions can differ. 'Our' cars ( the S30-series Z car family ) were made in Nissan Shatai's plant at Hiratsuka. They were never made at Zama. Nissan simply houses their 'Heritage Collection' at the old Zama truck plant, although they are currently working on a proper interactive museum to house it in the Yokohama area. As Chris points out, the Z34 is made at Nissan's Tochigi plant. Cheers, Alan T.

Slightly tougher crowd here than you get on the CTZCC forum, eh Carl?

Matt, If it's for a 2-seater '260Z' then it will fit your car. The '260Z 2+2' is the one that is longer, but the 2-seater / coupe versions are all the same. Do watch out for some of the lower quality 'pattern' parts, which were never as good as the original Nissan-made panels.

Kudos to 26th-Z for fighting the good fight, again. Yes, we've been here - or hereabouts - before, haven't we? It seems that the word "Factory" means different things to different people, and may change depending on the situation. But, like most of the other times we've been here, I think it most strongly implies a direct link with the manufacturing plant that the cars came out of, and the company ( in Japan! ) which designed, engineered and commissioned that manufacturing process. I don't think NMC USA is the same thing at all....... Carl, I think you're trying to have your cake, and eat it. Historically, it is clear to see that - in the period we are talking about here especially - NMC USA was indeed one step away from Nissan Motors Ltd. of Japan. To use the term "Factory" in relation to NMC USA or its activities in the USA smacks of the kind of mumbo jumbo that salesmen and (m)ad men are apt to use. And this whole thing is about selling cars and the little nick-nacks that go on them, isn't it? Part of that snake-oil selling is the reassurance that is given to the customer, hence the "Factory Approved" moniker. It's just sales patter, that's all. Here in Great Britain, 'Datsun UK' also authorised little nick-nacks and gew-gaws to be sold alongside - or attached to - the cars they sold. It's very hard to think of these as "Factory Approved" items, in any sense of the term. If you saw any of them attached to a car, I think you'd agree. Looking at this another way, were any of those "Factory Approved" AMCO accessories sold through the dealers in Japan? I don't think they were.... Alan T.

Tom, They were manufactured to very high tolerances by a company that specialises in Magnesium castings for the motorsport industry here in the UK. They make stuff for Formula 1, FIA GT and Le Mans car constructors, amongst many others. They have produced many different 'historic' wheels in the past, for old racing cars that need new 'old' wheels for safety reasons. It kind of pains me to say ( I do love 'period' motorsports parts, warts and all when applicable! ) but they are probably better than the original works items. Not surprising considering the technological advances in casting and CNC machining since 1969/70. I believe the Elektron Magnesium used is superior to that used in the originals too. Again, not surprising. My advice is 'get 'em while they're hot'. Less than 40pcs were made in 15", and less than 50pcs were made in 14" diameter. Another batch is probably a long way off, or never going to happen at all....... If you think it would help, please get in touch with me direct and I'll introduce you to the guys that made them. Cheers, Alan T.

Good point, Mr C. I didn't have a photos of that one. It seems clear where the stylised 'NP' emblem came from. It's just a tweak of that 'P' emblem you showed. Cheers, Alan T.

Carl, The figures are from the 'Nihon Jidosha Kogyo Kai' in their 'Shadai ( Shatai ) Bango Ichi Ran Hyo'. I've mentioned the document on here before. As for the discrepancy in quantities between this document and Nissan Shatai's own records, I've mentioned that before here too. The NJKK listing gives ranges of body serial numbers issued with licence plates per calendar year for each prefix ( Domestic only, of course ) but only partially takes account of gaps in serial number sequences. Watch out for the gaps....... And I'd say that there's a good chance that both sets of figures will always be a bit rubbery, depending on what exactly was being counted, and why it was being counted ( especially when you take the matter of public Revenue into account..... ). Given everything else we know, everything else we don't know, and everything that we don't even know we don't know, I'm not all that surprised at small differences in numbers. But anyway, you take my point don't you? Big headlines like "Earliest Production Z Car Discovered" don't seem to be taking stuff like this into account, do they? Alan T.

I wonder if you might have been thinking of the combined 'N' and 'P' cypher ( as seen on the Nissan R380 A-II, R380 A-III, R381, R382 & R383 sports racers ) as opposed to the stylised, brush-stroke 'P' shield logo ( as seen on the Prince R380-I & R380 A-I )? The 'NP' cypher is often mistaken for a stylised 'P'. It seems likely that Nissan were making a conscious effort to acknowledge the 'Prince' heritage of the R380-series with this badge. Example photos: 'NP' emblem on Nissan R381, and Prince 'P' shield on 'Prince Jidosha' sticker ( on my toolbox! ):

Depends who you trust, but the latest ( and therefore possibly the more accurate ) figure is 32. There's also the question of whether you count some of the Works race cars - some of which may or may not have had accurate chassis numbers ( due to duplication, etc ). Nissan needed to make 25 432Rs in order to homologate the 432R for the JAF Special GT class, so I think it's fair to say that at least 25 were made. Alan T.

Mike, Thanks for clarifying your intention. Of course, I knew you hadn't forgotten ( you are always very thorough and correct ), but others may well have missed the 'other' prefixes. According to public record in Japan, PS30s of chassis numbers PS30-00001 through PS30-00072 were all made in calendar year 1969 ( not to mention over 950 S30-prefixed cars ) so I think it's fairly certain that many of them went to their first private owners before HLS30-00013 and HLS30-00016 even left Japan on their way to the USA. Cheers, Alan T.

Or perhaps some of us would just like a little less hyperbole, a wider perspective and more accuracy in the reporting. Case in point: The 'Nissan Sport' magazine covering the story of this car has the ( priceless! ) blurb on the front cover - "Earliest Production Z Car Discovered". Er, no..........

GREAT to see a real PS30 outside Japan finally. Tom has great taste, and that looks like a really nice example. Early car too! Mmmmmmm, lovely! :classic: PS30-SB 'Fairlady Z432-R' subject is quite tricky. Final spec on some details ( glovebox, heater etc etc ) was often chosen or altered by the first owner. No two cars it seems were exactly the same. Most important point for me is the difference in gauge of sheetmetal used in production ( roof, rear quarters, door skins, scuttle panel, front wings / fenders etc etc ) which essentially make it completely different from the 'ordinary' PS30 Z432. These cars are world-class when it comes to rarity / 'homologation special' type rank of importance in the manner of Porsche 911T/R for example. Kats, Isn't that Tezuka san's PZR? I believe his Ikeda Bussan seats ( correct for Z432-R ) were recovered at some point in the past. The fabric and vinyl combination in the picture is not OEM. Originals should be 'hopsack' weave wool / acryl blend on the face ( office chair material! ) with black vinyl on the reverse side and headrest. Cheers, Alan T. ( ps - Chris, thanks for the 'endorsement' - but I still consider myself a 'student' of the PZR. You learn something new every day ).

Mike, Don't forget PS30-00009, PS30-00010, PS30-00011 and PS30-00012, as well as S30-00006, S30-00007, S30-00008 etc etc. Anyone talking about "first sold to the public" might be well advised to take them into account. I've seen PS30-00013 in Japan several times ( it was also used in several Japanese magazine road tests in early 1970, so it is quite a 'star' ) and I always think of it when anyone mentions "#13" or "Lucky #13" etc. Of course, if we want to refine it down to "first 240Z sold to the public", then we might be well advised to remember HS30-00003, which could easily be in with a shout......... Alan T.

Aren't the Hayashi Racing-manufactured works Rallye mag replicas ( sold by Nishi san's 'Revive Jalopy' ) only made in Aluminium? And I thought they had all sold out long ago, too? The replicas being advertised on ebay are made from Elektron magnesium ( just like the originals ) and are superbly manufactured. They have also scaled-up the design to make a 15" diameter version - which is a great help with competition tyre choice and is now FIA legal. I have six original works Rallye mags ( one of them was used as the sample for this replica batch ) and six of the 14" replicas in magnesium. I think the replicas are a lot safer to use in anger, and also incorporate a safety bead on both the inner and outer side of the inner rim, whereas the originals only had one. You wouldn't believe how much it costs to get wheels like these into small-run production. I don't think there's very much profit - if any at all - built into the price that is being quoted in the ebay ad. Here's a pic of an original: Alan T.

Thanks Chris. No hurry, as I'm playing in the snow up in Sapporo at the moment.....

Do you happen to know if R L Polk & Co. claim to cover the whole world? They would need to if they were going to make claims about "...all Porsches ever made....", for example. Ｉ bet they don't know about my cars!

The 'Datsun Compe' steering wheels were of course based on the Japanese market steering wheels - which had a different 'dish' compared to the Export versions. The Japanese market turn signal switches had a different angle on them to cope with the different dish of the steering wheels. Just gently bend your turn signal switch stalk to suit.

Ah! Seeds that may grow up to be a fully fledged myth are sown...... Just a couple of days ago I was pedalling furiously on another forum, trying to refute a story that the 'Fairlady Z432' was so-named because it had been conceived in 'Room No.432'.......