HS30-H

To continue the story of Kevin's Works car; The photos for the OCTANE Magazine feature were taken soon after the car was finally legal for road use ( M.O.T. test passed, Road Fund License obtained and insurance paid ), but at that point Kevin had not really driven the car other than - shall we say - carefully and respectfully. However, Kevin was invited to take part in the 'Hamilton Classic Motor Sport History of Rallying' display at the 2008 'Rally Show' at the Chatsworth House stately home in Derbyshire, England on 6th and 7th June. Members of the 'Slowly Sideways' group ( all owners and users of historic rally machinery ) would display their cars at the show, and also take part in 'demo' runs on the rally stage. Typical English rallying weather prevailed ( torrential rain for the whole weekend ) and the other modern and historic cars running on the stage turned it into a quagmire with some extremely deep ridges. But undaunted, Kevin still took the car around twice on each day and put on a great display for the brave spectators. I was lucky enough to be asked to sit-in as pretend navigator ( actually no more than ballast ) and enjoyed myself immensely. It was a great privilege and an honour, and I am very grateful to Kevin for asking me. You can see some great shots of the car in action at Chatsworth, taken by photographer Mark Sims, on his 'Rally Gallery' website: http://www.rallygallery.com/2009_CHATS.aspx ( just click on the 'History of Rallying' tab ) As you can see, 'TKS 33 SA 3640' once again wore English mud as a badge of honour, and paid tribute to the men in Japan who built her, the men who drove and serviced her in-period, and bore testament to the dedication and determination of Kevin, who rescued her and made her live again....... Alan T.

This photo perhaps? Just to confirm, this is Kevin's other historic rally 240Z - UK registration number 'OMT 868K':

Thanks Carl, Money was one thing, but I have the deepest respect for Kevin's forensic mindset and the superhuman effort he put into understanding the details of this car during the time he applied himself to saving it. He seemed to put himself in the place of the Works fabricators and technicians who actually built the car so that he could understand why and how they did what they did. As the article says, he really did manage to keep the lightning in the bottle. Unfortunately, the complex nature of the car, along with the level of detailing, original feeling and patina of the car cannot be conveyed adequately in the printed media. I wish you could all see this car in the metal ( and plastic! ), to appreciate both what the Works staff built, and what Kevin has managed to save. It is truly amazing. I'm sure it has some distribution in the USA. Their website address is: www.octane-magazine.com If anybody really wants a copy, but struggles to get a single copy in the USA or Canada without subscription, please let me know and I will be happy to try and help. Cheers, Alan T.

I think you might be getting this car confused with Kevin's other 240Z historic rally car ( UK registration number 'OMT 868K' ) which is yellow, with a red stripe. That car has been rallying for most of it's life, but Kevin has a long and successful history with it ( winning the UK championship with it one year ) and still owns it. The ex-Works car ( Japanese carnet registration number 'TKS 33 SA 3640', subsequently UK registration number 'PTE 338L' ) is quite a different car, and has been occupying his free time for much of the last twelve years or so. Now that the restoration of the ex-Works car is finished, Kevin may be taking part in the occasional competitive outing in 'OMT' again..... Here's a pic of 'OMT' a couple of years or so ago:

The odd mistake did creep in.....

The August 2009 issue of OCTANE Magazine ( already on sale here in the UK ) carries a very nicely photographed five page feature on Kevin Bristow's ex-Works 1971 Datsun 240Z rally car. This car debuted on the 1971 RAC Rally here in the UK, crewed by East African Safari Rally-winning team Edgar Herrmann and Hans Schuller. Kevin has recently completed a marathon restoration that he took to extraordinary levels, and the article - written by Paul Hardiman and photographed in a studio by John Colley - describes the "Incredible, sensitive restoration of a unique survivor". It's nice to see a genuine Works-built 240Z being featured in the pages of a mainstream - and fairly swanky - magazine such as OCTANE. Kevin's car is rubbing shoulders in the pages with some pretty illustrious company..... Definitely worth picking up this mag if you have an interest in the Works cars. Alan T.

The black car is wearing replicas of the factory ( Nissan ) 240ZG 'G-Nose' panels, combined with the Nissan 'Sports Option' wide Overfenders and 'Type B' front spoiler / air dam. Nissan's own 'works' race cars used even wider versions of these Overfenders. Replicas of the factory parts are still available in Japan. The "BAMF" flares are something completely different. I believe that "BAMF" stands for something like "Big Ass Mother F****r", which I suspect is possibly not a factory designation...... :tapemouth

And it continues to be used on certain small commercials sold in Japan to this day. However, I don't think anybody in Japan mistakes the 'Datsun' brand as that of a manufacturer, and I don't believe that they ever did. Unfortunately, many people outside Japan came to believe that 'Datsun' was a manufacturer. Their dismay at the dropping of 'Datsun' as a brand must have been all the greater because of this misconception. I see you are discussing the US market as though it is the only market again. The fact is that the 'Datsun' brand was applied to Export market models sold in several other countries before the north American market was seriously entered. This is not solely a north American market related issue, and it is clear that Nissan were thinking of the broader worldwide market. I don't know how it is possible to speculate that using the 'Nissan' name as the brand instead of 'Datsun' would have led to any difference in sales preformance? In any case, you didn't have to look very hard to see that the cars were clearly marked with the NISSAN name too. This wasn't exactly a complete 'cover up', was it? What I'm still struggling to understand is the philosophy behind the 'DHM'. I don't see how this 'Datsun' brand thing can be refined down ( and seemingly divorced from its very real Nissan-related heritage ) to make a subject that can be successfully curated in a museum? I don't see how we can draw lines so arbitrarily and say "...this is part of the story, but this is not..."? If Nissan's products - regardless of target market - were ALL sold with the 'DATSUN' brand name then I could perhaps begin to see it, but when what were essentially the same designs were being sold in different markets as either Datsuns or Nissans then I don't see how you can say that the Datsun branded car is relevant to the museum, but the Nissan branded car is not. As far as I can see, they are both part of the same story.... Alan T.

On the contrary. For my part I'm enjoying the discussion, and you are bringing a lot to it. It is very informative to hear other points of view, especially when they are so well put. I attempted to address this in post #8, when I wrote that ( the 'Datsun' brand / emblem ) ".....didn't actually represent anything that could not have been more accurately attributed to NMC USA or indeed Nissan Motor Co. of Japan." I understand the feeling and all those other abstract things that the 'Datsun' name will have grown to represent for the people that invested their emotions ( and money ) in 'Datsun' products, but I still can't help believing that pretty much all of that was just as applicable - and more rightfully owned by - Nissan Motors Japan. This is brought home to me all the more when I see people writing "Datsun made" such-and-such, or "Datsun did" whatever, as though 'Datsun' made or did anything at all. That use of the 'Datsun' brand would have made much more sense if Nissan had a brace of other brand names to line up alongside it. This would be useful for delineating between - for example - pickups / light commercials, sports / GT cars and more luxurious sedan segments. We can see this happening all the time today, but Nissan never used that idea and the whole 'Datsun' thing looks like a dead end to me. The best - and I think most plausible - explanation for its use ( apart from that "fear of failure" story, which makes less and less sense every time I hear it ) is that Nissan did not want to use the 'Nissan' name on its export products for fear of association with the Nissan brand seen on war materiel. This in itself seems somewhat paranoid, as it didn't seem to hinder manufacturers like BMW, Messerschmidt, Heinkel or Daimler Benz too much. I'm sorry but the main source for this 'Datsun=good, Nissan=bad' mindset seems to be north America. A lot of it seems to be connected with all this "poor Mr K." type of thinking, and I can't help thinking that much of it is politicking and recrimination, and dirty washing being aired in public. All quite regrettable, really. I'm afraid I still can't see how "Datsun Heritage" - as a concept - can be divided from Nissan's heritage in a way that makes it possible to curate a museum dedicated to it, and named after it. I still have an open mind though...... Alan T.

"Down grade the museum"? When you open a museum to the public, you also take on some implicit responsibility. Likewise, Mr Lance Lambert with his 'Vintage Vehicle Show' takes on the implicit responsibility to get it right when he makes these films and sells them for broadcast ( a commercial product! ). Neither are immune to critique. Ironically enough, I believe that my first exchanges with you on this forum related to you calling your car a "240ZG". You seemed to take exception to me making the point that it is not, and never will be. You made some stupid ( personal ) comments that you subsequently deleted. Perhaps I ought to thank you for making the extra effort there? I have not seen you make any informed or even interesting written contribution to this forum since then, but there's always hope.... You don't seem to be able to understand what has already been written on this thread. Nobody is questioning Mr Jordan's status as a gentleman, but he was led astray perhaps a little too easily in this video interview - was he not? The "432 cubic inch" gaffe is simply amusing ( it is too silly to take seriously ) but Mr Lance Lambert must expect to have his work judged by its audience and I don't see any problem with pointing out the mistakes. In fact the home page for this 'Vintage Vehicle Show' of his invites such comments, and by now I'm sure he has realised just how bad this clip is ( it would be interesting to see the rest of it..... ). This is one of the ways we can try to make things better for the future, and hopefully lessen the chances of it happening again. Alan T.

Bob, I understand the pressures involved, and have been put 'on the spot' myself on occasion. It's never easy. Fred Jordan has my sympathy as far as that is concerned. But what I can't understand is how the production that this video clip was taken from actually made it as far as broadcast without being fully researched / edited / corrected. In fact, it's possible to hear the interviewer leading the interviewee into the mistakes. It quite simply should not have made it to air. It's as simple as that. As I wrote in my first post, I think Fred Jordan could have been a little better prepared / rehearsed - but the interviewer must have had some kind of script that was already prepared ( even if it was only in his head ) and that's where the buck stops in this instance. If the production company in question made such mistakes whilst inside the walls of the 'Datsun Heritage Museum', then what chance is there to ever get this stuff discussed with any accuracy? As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink...... Alan T.

Well - as far as I am aware - Chevrolet products are still sold as 'Chevrolet' branded products. Is there any place in the world where something that would normally wear a Chevrolet emblem is sold wearing a 'GM' emblem, and all mention of 'Chevrolet' is expunged? What I'm trying to get across is that the 'Datsun' brand / emblem was essentially just a badge stuck onto a Nissan product. It didn't actually represent anything that could not have been more accurately attributed to NMC USA or indeed Nissan Motor Co. of Japan. I don't think the modern day 'GM' conglomerate is strictly comparable to Nissan in this question of brand names. The cars that we discuss here ( and that form the basis of this 'Datsun Heritage Museum' as far as I can see ) were all designed and manufactured by Nissan in Japan. You might say that "Datsuns are Datsuns", but not all Nissans of that same period were Datsuns, were they? I find it difficult to understand the mindset that wishes to so strongly differentiate between the 'Nissan' and 'Datsun' emblems that it perpetuates misconceptions. The kind of misconceptions that lead people to think ( as seen in this video clip ) that 'Datsun' was the manufacturer..... There's also the view that the very idea of using that 'Datsun' brand name on a Nissan product was the first big gaffe that made the second ( doing away with the 'Datsun' brand ) an eventual inevitability. Having used it, I completely agree that they should have kept it. But in retrospect I think it is easy to see that it was largely a mistake to use it in the first place..... I guess Fred Jordan - having been on the inside - will quite rightly feel that he has a mandate for this 'protest', but most of the rest of us are ( merely? ) paying customers for a commercial product. What I'm still failing to see is the sense in this 'Datsun=good, Nissan=bad' kind of undertone that bubbles up between the lines. It all seems to be linked into that simplistic 'Mr K.=good guy, dark shadowy figures in Japan=bad guys' type of scenario that we often see being perpetuated. I really don't see how you can divorce that use of the 'Datsun' brand from the fact that Nissan were behind it all. The red Fairlady Z in this video clip is a brother ( sister? ) to the north American market cars that it is standing next to, but is it to be treated as something far away from them just because it never wore a 'Datsun' emblem? I often see respected figures in the north American 'early Datsun Z community' telling us that such cars are not part of the story, and that they are "irrelevant". It is nice to see the car in the 'DHM', but it would be nicer if it was being accurately described. More on that below....

"....actually from Japan..." Unlike the north American market cars, which were from - er, what was the name of that place again? Oh yeah, Gardena. That's it. "....twin double overhead cam..." And quadruple four valves too, I think? "....the Skylines are manufactured by Datsun?" "Yes" But seriously, can anybody tell me what this particular car is doing in the 'Datsun Heritage Museum'? Is it pretending to be a 'Datsun' or something? When that car left the factory it was marketed and sold as a 'Nissan'. Is it not the case that this obsession with the 'Datsun' name appears to be obscuring the fact that all of the cars in this 'Datsun Heritage Museum' are actually - first and foremost - Nissans.....? I'm sorry, I'm just not seeing it. Can anyone explain that to me?

I'm wondering which 'Datsun 240Z' they are thinking of, as - quite obviously - they were not all created equal..... And if homologation specials like the NSX-R and R390 GT1 are included, then why not the Nissan Fairlady Z432-R too? I'd say the 432 and 432-R were fairly exotic for their time, and certainly more appropriate to a list of "Japanese Supercars" than the 240Z is........

I'm sure Mr Fred Jordan is a very nice man with the best of intentions, but he could perhaps have been a little better prepared for this interview:

I often find that there are never enough hangers in the closet when I check into a hotel.......

But what? Walter, I'm quite sure the truth of the matter is that we are very likely to see eye-to-eye on many more things than we don't. Maybe that doesn't fit the 'script', but I'll bet it's true...... I look forward to it. Fingers crossed. Thanks for being receptive to my query on this. To my eyes, the first version of the thread did read like classic 'advertorial', but without the 'advert' that would justify (and pay for ) the 'editorial'.......

I take your point, but this is just one of what seems like several BRE-related posts that - basically - have been linked to something that BRE are selling. Posters, photos, that kind of stuff. It has been starting to look to me like BRE have been getting quite a bit of subliminal advertising on the forum, and it's much more than people just discussing / comparing the product. It seems a little out of proportion in comparison to other suppliers, and its relevance in the 'Z History' forum seems extremely tenuous to me. Considering that BRE control the use of their logo and ( even ) their 'trademark' paint schemes - and charge people for the right to use them - I think a little bit of what's good for Paul is good for Peter too....., no? So am I.

Will, How about putting it in the 'Chit Chat' forums after BRE pay for a banner ad? MSA pay for a banner ad here, and they sell car covers too. If I were MSA I would not be amused to see BRE's car covers getting a free endorsement and their own thread here. BRE are a commercial enterprise, after all.

What's this doing in the 'Z Car History Forum'? If BRE have something to sell, they should sell it in the Classifieds section just like everyone else. If they want a bit more exposure, they can contact Admin to negotiate a banner ad at a suitable fee, I'm sure.

Needs to be an early L20A, and ( possibly ) an FS5C71-A....... It's a nice gesture, but I don't think these are going to be a problem to find in Japan.

Yes, thanks Mike - I saw where the text came from. The point I'm trying to make is that it is being repeated as though it actually means something..... I'm pretty sure it doesn't....!

Sorry, I don't know very much about the 'ZZZap' or 'Black Pearl' special editions at all. And what little I do know about them has been gleaned from previous posts on this forum. My impression is that there seems to be a lot of difficulty in authenticating genuine examples of both, so judging them in car shows must be a little tricky? Glad to hear you have a new source for Japanese literature. Volume 2 of 'Showa Motors' ( NEWs Publishing, ISBN978-4-89107-581-1 ) has that three page article on the modified VZ car in Japan, and also a nice interview with Matsuo san. Recommended. Whilst teacher is away, can I ask you to have a stab at explaining what this might mean: .....especially those bits about "...the first....", "...the second..." and "...the third...". You can tell he used to sell cars for a living, can't you?

Or even an English correction. That'll be 'you're' and 'invasion'. Feel free to make a note of them for the next time you want to take a shot at the correct use of the English language.

Sorry for my late reply to this. I forgot all about it. You should be able to see the dated quality control stamp ( 'hanko' or 'ken' ) on one of the originals. It's on the gold passivate coloured part of the mechanism that you can't see when the wheel is in situ. They were made by 'Izumi' - the same company that made the original steering wheels for the cars - so the dated stamp is in the same place as you see it on the stock S30 steering wheels. Actually, I'll have to look at my NISMO 10th Anniversary reissue and see if it too has a dated stamp. I can't recall off the top of my head whether it did or not...... But anyway, I think a genuine early wheel that has 'had a life' will certainly show some patina. They go smooth and shiny with use, whilst sweat and strong sunlight attacks the soft urethane. In extreme cases they shrink and crack. A 10th Anniversary reissue is already fairly old, but it would have to have led a hard life to show the kind of patina that an original would get from even normal use.