HS30-H

Carl, Lots of people over the years have said that the car in that pic was a "911" - but Matsuo san told me it was actually a 912........ Looking at it, I think he's right. In my opinion ( and I know some others quietly share this view, but hardly dare to speak up ) there is far far too much weight given to what Katayama might or might not have "suggested". Half of the time the things being "suggested" - some going as far to say "ordered", as though Katayama was calling out pizza toppings for a home delivery - were already being taken into account. The Chief Designer and his team were not empty-headed kitchen staff waiting for a 'recipe' from several thousand Km away. They had their own influences, their own ideas and their own inspirations - all the time having the edges knocked off of them by the bean counters and the needs of other departments. The legend of the Katayama influence often overshadows and obscures the stories of the people whose hands and minds actually created the S30-series Z range. Alan T.

I know a little about that car, and we worked out of the same pit garage at the last Nismo Festival at Fuji Speedway. What kind of data are you looking for? Are you familiar with the S20 engine?

Yes, I believe that - theoretically at least - that would have been possible. I can't help thinking that there might have been a catch or two - but then, if somebody actually ordered a fully optioned-up Z-S the factory would probably have built them a Z-L, and told them that this was their 'special' Z-S! It's all a bit chicken-and-egg, isn't it. Standard equipment on all Japanese models from start of production, I believe. The first 'Service Shuho' bulletin in Japan ( November 1969 ) shows it clearly but makes no distinction of applicable models in the way it does with parts not shared between all models. Have you tried to find the torch and its bracket in the early Japanese parts lists? No trace as far as I am aware.........another head-scratcher.

Carl, Given your previous negative comments about the Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L - and indeed just about all of the Japanese home market models in one way or another ( "irrelevant", just an example of Nissan's "vanity" etc etc ) - I find it hard to watch your participation in this thread without expecting some kind of throwaway punch line that damns the cars in comparison to the all-hallowed HLS30-U. Something of a Pavlovian response on my part I admit, but I think quite understandable in the circumstances. So forgive me if I still find it a bit odd that you are here discussing these details, and answering Kerrigan's question about the 'Z-L' spec - which I was under the impression was at least partially rhetorical, since I had already explained a lot about his car's original specs to him before this thread started. Not all of the standard items are listed on the brochures ( which is where the discussion on those two threads was centred ) so we have to fill in some of the gaps ourselves through our own research. I believe that is the situation in all markets and for all models, is it not? The table that you wrote out and posted - although obviously well intentioned - was not factually correct, and I just want us to get these things right so that future searches throw up good info rather than misleading info. The full carpet set, tinted glass, underhood light and map light were standard equipment on the 'Z-L' models ( and extra-cost options on the 'Z' ) when Kerrigan's car was made. The parts lists for that period state that the steering lock was standard on ALL Japanese market models at that time. There are hundreds of other detail differences between the models and my best advice to Kerrigan, or anyone else who wants to know, is to invest in some of the Japanese market parts lists if you want to delve into it a bit deeper. Fair enough. Have a safe and fun trip this weekend. Alan T.

"Back up" what I am saying........? It's not me that needs to do the work my friend - it's you. I already took the time to answer your question. Perhaps it would be more pertinent for me to point out that you obviously haven't read quite as much as you seem to think you have.

I always try to be a gentleman where the ladies are concerned. In my defence, I did write "no disprespect intended.......", but perhaps the red mist got to me a little bit. Can you imagine how frustrating it is just trying to get all this stuff straight and easy to understand ( in my own head, let alone anywhere else ), only to have erroneous info come out of left field and taken as gospel - even if it is only some kind of 'lost in translation' kind of misunderstanding? Surely that Z-L = "Rally option" thing can only have been just that - a misunderstanding? If not, I'd like to see the literature and technical information that it comes from......... Changing the subject a little, I think the challenge that Kerrigan faces in entering his car to be judged at car shows is very interesting. Do you remember me asking about a ( theoretical ) situation that might arise should a Japanese-market car be entered into a ZCCA-judged event? Looks to me like Kerrigan is in the 'front line' of that particular battle. I'd love to be a fly on the wall, and listen to some of the comments from the judges about what was 'correct' and what was not.......... Alan T.

Carl, I'm wondering if you mis-read some of the columns from the original scans? For example - referring to the list you wrote out comparing Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L standard equipment with '240Z' standard equipment in post #10 of this thread - you have blanks next to the spaces for FULL CARPET, TINTED GLASS, UNDERHOOD LIGHT, MAP LIGHT and STEERING WHEEL LOCK on the Fairlady Z-L column. All of those items were standard equipment on the Z-L model, and optional on the Z-S. Here are links to the two main threads where I posted scans of some of the original Japanese market sales brochures and tried to explain the options and standard equipment specs: Japanese market brochure - late 1969 specs: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14422 Japanese market brochure - late 1971 specs: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14501 We discussed quite a lot of things in those threads, so it seems worth referring back to them directly. I put a lot of effort into them if nothing else. In your post #10 on this thread you posted a table comparing Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L specs with a '240Z' specs column ( you explain above that this was a 70/71 US market spec list ) - but it might be fairer and more accurate to look at the later ( ie - late 1971 ) specs for the Japanese models if you are going to compare them to a 1971 north American market spec car, as the Japanese spec was changed and updated during the 69~73 period. And if you are going to do that, then perhaps it would be logical and fair to include the three L24-engined variants introduced to the Japanese market in late 1971 too. At that point there were seven distinct S30-series Z variants on the showroom floors in Japan...... I don't know why your comparison of the Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L models against that north American market 240Z did not also include the Fairlady Z432 and Fairlady Z432-R models, which were available during the same period. It seems - at the very least - unfair to leave them out. Alan T.

PS is the industry abbreviation for the German language term 'Pferdestärke' ( 'Horse strength' / power ). Horsepower X 1.01 = PS (Pferdestärke) PS (Pferdestärke) X 0.986 = Horsepower Kilowatt X 1.36 = PS (Pferdestärke) PS (Pferdestärke) X 0.735 = Kilowatt

Nothing to do with the birthdays of Emperors. It's all to do with ascendancy to the 'Chrysanthemum Throne'. The date that the Emperor's reign effectively starts. In the case of Emperor 'Showa' ( known outside Japan as Hirohito ) it is 1925. Where is this list sourced from anyway? It is chock full of mistakes. I hope nobody uses it as any kind of reference in the future. User beware!

Yahoo auction asking prices are not necessarily the best guides to average prices, and both of those cars look like what you might call 'Resto Mod' examples to me ( ie - often a fair few points lower priced than the best ) but nonetheless, the car on the left has a start price of 4.5 million Yen, and the red one on the right has a reserve of 4.75 million Yen. "As high as 4 million" isn't correct, is it? Take a peep at some of the prices the better respected specialist dealers in Japan are asking for them.

I'd like to see the data that you can present to support that statement - with the emphasis on "like condition". The vast majority of Japanese market S30-series Zs that I have seen being hawked around for sale in the USA over the years have looked misunderstood, messed-with and generally pretty decrepit. It is hard to shake off the impression that most of them arrived in the USA as opportunistic purchases travelling on a free transportation ticket ( I call 'em 'GI Brides' ), and were hardly the creme-de-la-Kremlin in their home country when they were purchased. There are of course the odd exceptions, but 'like condition' I'd like to see proof of. Looking in from the outside, it seems to me that you are only talking about stuff that is right at the bottom end of the market anyway. Hang on - let me say that out loud to myself to see if it sounds any more logical: ....."Given that about 3% of the 240-Z's produced, were sold in Japan....". No, sorry. It doesn't. I don't know if your 3% figure is supposed to represent just '240Z' models ( ie - are you including just models with the '240Z' moniker tacked onto them, and ignoring brothers and sisters that wore other badges? ), but I still don't see how your statement can make any sense either way...... Think about it. LHD export market '240Zs' are not cheaper in Japan than the domestic models because they were made in greater numbers. The re-imported LHD cars are rarer in the main part of the Japanese market ( of course! ). The reason they are generally changing hands for less money in Japan than the domestic models is because they are not very popular there. Simple. Special interest items like the 'Vintage Z Program' cars are exceptions - and I don't blame the Japanese owners of such cars to stick high prices on them if they feel that way inclined ( good luck to them I say ) - but overall the LHD cars are not very sought-after in Japan. It has nothing to do with quantities originally manufactured.

You don't remember? On 7th February you asked about your car on the zcar.com forum ( where one person told you it was a "432" ) mentioning your "rally car" and "Model L" story, and the following day I correctly identified it for you - didn't I? That's why I was dismayed to see you mentioning the bogus "rally car" story again on this thread only a few weeks later as though it is still a possibility. It isn't! I also wrote: .....So yes, 70% of 3800 Z & Z-L models made in 1971 is around the 2700 mark - but when you are quoting stuff like this on forums I think you have a duty to put it into context, otherwise it just screws up the usefulness of the SEARCH function for the next person that uses it. If you recall, I also helped you to identify the build date of your car to within a month or so - and told you where to look to find and cross-reference more data from the car. To see you now write that you "don't remember" is a bit dismaying to say the least........ Alan T.

Broadly speaking, no. The best chance you would have had would be if previous owners had left their documentation ( original purchase order, bill of sale, etc ) with the car when they sold it. If you don't have anything at all then it's going to be all but impossible to track down the dealership in Japan that actually sold the car when it was new. Even if you could it would be most unlikely that they still exist in their original form or that they would have a record of cars sold in 1971........ Nissan Japan would have documented where it was sent to when it was first shipped out of the factory, but you have almost zero chance of getting that data as Nissan claim to have 'destroyed' much of that kind of information. The car would have had an identity plate in the engine bay when it left the factory, but it sounds like it has been taken off or lost at some time in the past before your ownership. To be honest, it would not reveal very much more about the car anyway.... No offence, but there's plenty of data and documentation on the Japanese market models out there just waiting for you to come along and get it. The point is of course that when you are researching a Japanese market model of a Japanese car then your best source of information is going to be in Japan, and in Japanese. You already know quite a lot about the car ( recent bad info excepted ) so realistically there's not a lot left for you to find out. It appears to have been a pretty standard issue silver 1971 Fairlady Z-L model when it left the factory. Researching that model and the other Japanese models, and cross-referencing that with other S30-series Z models sold around the world will tell you pretty much enough to be getting on with...... As far as I can imagine, your biggest obstacle is going to be 'educating' the people that are judging your car when you enter car shows. If they know less about the Japanese market models than you do then you have a steep mountain to climb......

It's an L20A engine. Normal output on the 1971 Fairlady Z-L was 130PS @ 6000rpm, with 125PS on the lower-compression version for use with 'Regular' grade fuel. You'd probably have to look at the distributor type to discern whether you have the low compression version or not. Note the use of PS rather than HP or BHP in the power rating. Sounds like you might have the wrong factory manual for your engine/car? Which one do you have?

All standard equipment on the 1971-build 'Z-L', and extra-cost options on the 'Z' that 'Z' buyers didn't normally specify for fear of totally missing the point.

Oh dear. I thought you had been at least partially cured of 'Beck-O-Vision', but you appear to be having something of a relapse........ You showed a list of 'options' for three models, but you don't mention what year they apply to and you don't mention what market version the 'Datsun 240Z' quoted was. Of course, from late 1969 those Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L models sat side-by-side in the Japanese catalogues and showrooms with the Fairlady Z432 and Fairlady Z432-R models. In late 1971 they were joined by the three new L24-engined models - the Fairlady 240Z, Fairlady 240Z-L and Fairlady 240ZG. That's quite a wide range of variants and specs to choose from - all of which could, of course, be optioned-up or optioned-down should the buyer choose to. He also had the contents of the Nissan 'Sports Option' lists to peruse, should he be that way inclined. I think anyone can see that the Japanese home market had far more choice than any other market. "Aftermarket". So all comparisons of showroom / catalogue specs and options are out of the window because basically any car can be modified one way or another? Where are you going with that line of discussion, then? I don't see the point. How does it relate to what you are quoting? What's your point? I have no idea why you are relying on "Alan or Kats" to post such basic information. I guess it must be linked to the fact that you think the Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L are ( and I quote you here ) "irrelevant". Does it mean that you consciously avoid information about them?

Well, no disprespect intended to the "man at ZTherapy" and/or his wife, but they don't know what they are talking about. The 'L' in 'Z-L' ( the 'S30' model as opposed to the 'S30-S', or 'Standard' model ) denotes 'Luxe' as in Deluxe. You'll sometimes see the two models named 'Z-S' and 'Z-L' as well as 'Z-Std' and 'Z-DX' in other Nissan documentation, such as parts lists etc. I have absolutely no idea where they got the idea that the two-button Stop Watch Clock and Type A 5-speed denoted any kind of "rally option" ( how bizarre ) as a great proportion of the S30-series Zs sold in Japan during that period had exactly the same equipment. There is absolutely no connection with anything remotely "rally" related, and it is not any kind of special edition like the 432, 432-R or ZG. Logical? But I already told you exactly what it is in our direct correspondence! I really don't know what to say to you. You're obviously listening to the wrong people. I'm almost speechless. If you used the SEARCH function on this site you'd find absolutely loads of posts that I've made in the past that would give you the answers to the questions you were asking. It's a nice car, and unusual where you live, but Nissan made thousands of them. "Rally option"............ For heaven's sake..........

".....the rally version......" ? Where did you get that from? I think you have your wires crossed slightly........

Victor, I don't read that katakana as 'KYB' or 'Blue'. I read it as 'Kayaba' ( makers of the KYB brand ) and 'Oil' - but spelled phonetically in katakana with the typical Japanese 'ru' sound on the end, and likewise the phonetic 'Shokku', meaning 'shock' / shock absorber. So I think it should translate as 'Kayaba oil shock(s)' Surely the writer is differentiating between Kayaba / KYB oil-type shocks, and the more expensive gas versions? If he was writing the colour 'blue', he'd have been more likely to use Kanji I reckon. Japanese word for the colour blue ( phonetically "Aoi" ) sounds quite close to phonetic "Oiru" / oil, so maybe that tripped you? I don't agree. I believe the situation is quite the opposite, in fact. Machine translation software has much more problem with accurate translation of Japanese kanji characters than with katakana. It often 'overtranslates' kanji where it is not necessary - such as in place names or family / company names - or comes up with the wrong reading of the character combinations for the context they are being used in. Katakana on the other hand, being a simple phonetic script, is much more easy to machine convert. However, you soon find that syllables in Japanese phonetics don't match up directly with what you would hope or expect their English language pronunciation equivalents to be. This is how you end up with roughly 'Ho-te-ru' for 'Hotel' and 'Su-tsu-case-u' for Suitcase. If using machine translation from Japanese to English, you have to be pragmatic and have a rough idea of the intention of the writer - which is really what language is all about anyway.............

Just to clear up the matter of that symbol on Sakai's Cobra Daytona Coupe: In Japanese this character / symbol is called 'Manji', and is closely associated with the Buddhist religion - where it simply denotes good fortune ( amongst other things ). Sakai's team would have been using it on the car in that context, and not in any other. As has been mentioned, the symbol has a long and complex history - but in Japan it has been used for many centuries in the Buddhist religion, which intertwines with the Japanese 'Shinto' religion. The Manji symbol has been used in dynastic and feudal heraldry ( most notably in Daimyo and family flags ) across the centuries too, so it is quite possible that Sakai's team were using it in that context too. There's nothing sinister about it. Alan T.

Ray appears to have recently signed up as a member ( again going by the screen-name 'Prince' ) over at the Japanese Nostalgic Car forums: http://www.japanesenostalgiccar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=921 Maybe that would be a good place to ask him some questions in public? In my opinion, the man ought to be blackballed by any Nissan / Prince / Datsun community that he is a part of. I can't see how he can claim innocence of this prefix changing. Mat, My impression ( based partly on private e-mails that he sent to me about the car's identity ) was that he didn't originally realise that the KPGC10 had it's own body number sequence, and he was under the impression that all GC110s shared a common body sequence. Hence he didn't alter the body serial number on his car, leaving it as a too-high anomaly. This is one of the things that set the alarm bells ringing. Overall, I think there's a big possibility that he originally started down this path just to satisfy his own needs - and wasn't necessarily thinking about defrauding anyone. I reckon he might have gone too far down the road of no return, and having obtained paperwork to match up with the faked prefix he could not turn back. Ultimately, he just fooled himself. Alan T.

Kats, I'm surprised to see you write that the Z432-R model was not listed in the domestic brochures, as I have two early brochures in my collection where it very clearly was listed. The clearest of these - the 'Your Dream Comes True' campaign poster-size fold-out with the red bonnet front cover - you showed in your latest post....... Here's a close-up of the back cover, with the Z432-R on the top right:

Brian, As has been mentioned, at least you now have the satisfaction of knowing the truth about the car's identity - which clears up a lot of speculation and past mysteries. Hats off to you for getting to the bottom of it and posting your findings here. You obviously have the honesty and integrity that the previous owner was lacking......... Just in case anyone wants to look a little deeper into the story, the car was originally discussed here: Introduction by owner: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12221 Part 2: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12259 ...and then we had a deeper discussion about it here, when it was offered for sale and finally purchased by Brian: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24937 Best wishes to you and the car for the future, Brian. I know you are going to make it into a beauty, and won't need to be telling any fibs about it's true identity in the way that the previous owner did. Alan T

Interesting development with regard to the true identity of the car that this thread originally discussed: http://classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29117

GS31-010985 is a 'Fairlady Z 2/2' model, built in mid-1977. I'd *estimate* a build date of around June or July 1977 judging by the serial number, but if you have a poke around on the car you will easily be able to get closer to the manufacturing month by cross-referencing quality control stamps on the individual components of the car. We have covered the subject many times on this forum in the past, so use the SEARCH button to dredge up some useful info. There are three spec possibilities if the car is manual trans, and two spec possibilities if it is automatic trans: Manual = GS31-S 'Fairlady Z-L', GS31 'Fairlady Z' or GS31-J 'Fairlady Z-T'. Auto = GS31-A 'Fairlady Z-L' or GS31-AJ 'Fairlady Z-T'. 'Z-T' models had the 'higher' ( ie more expensive ) spec. 'Z-L' was considered 'normal' ( or deluxe ) spec. 'Z' was the bargain basement no frills spec. ( ironically rarest these days ). If it has a 4-speed manual trans it is most likely a GS31-S, but I would have thought that if somebody had taken the trouble to export it outside Japan then it will be more likely that it is either a 'Z-L' or 'Z-T' with a 5-speed manual trans or auto. Diff ratio will depend on model, but all the GS31s left the factory with the NAPS ( Nissan Anti Pollution System ) version of the L20AE, and the exact spec of the engine again will depend on model type, and whether manual or auto trans. Original engine numbers for the S31 models ( both two seater and 2/2 ) started at L20-265834 according to period Nissan documentation, so you can expect your engine number to be higher than that by many thousands. Your original engine bay data plate probably would not state the engine number. Specs and details on these late Japanese market S31 models are very complicated, and the customer had many options available to choose from when ordering his new car - so the final product can vary somewhat from original brochure specs. Makes your life as the new owner a little more interesting........ Alan T.