HS30-H

That would be because the 'Nissan' parent company name was not being promoted outside Japan. But I feel sure the reason why the Nissan name wasn't being promoted was not anything to do with it possibly looking or sounding like 'Nippon' ( we will have to agree to disagree on that point ). Well, the first L4 & L6 cam covers had the word 'NISSAN' on them ( because they were first sold in the Japanese market ). I don't know too much about the Australian market, but I'm 100% sure that the L24 engines fitted to the Australian market HS30 'Datsun 240Z' models had 'NISSAN 2400 OHC' and then 'NISSAN OHC' on their cam covers, and the first of these started arriving in Australia in 1970. L6 cam covers without either 'Nissan' or 'Datsun' on them I have never seen, apart from aftermarket ( non Nissan ) product. That's just what I was thinking when I read what you wrote, and it is why the car ( cars? ) sound like grey import one-offs to me. Two things intrigue me here. First of all, the KPGC10 came from the Factory with RADIAL tyres. A special glovebox sticker unique to the C10 GT-R model reminded owners of this fact ( and the pressures which they were to be inflated to ). Why did the car you saw have crossplies on it if it was new? Secondly, I don't believe any KPGC10s came from the Factory with flat black bonnets. They were steel ( as opposed to FRP ) and were always body colour. I'm beginning to think that the car you saw in the Australian showroom might have been 'pre-owned' ( ie - used, and not Factory fresh ). I'm intrigued. Alan T.

aarc240, Yes, I have heard of a Nissan P510 Bluebird. They were sold as Nissans in Japan. The reason we are discussing this question of rebadging Nissans as 'Datsuns' is because you linked the 'Nissan' brand name with the word 'Nippon' - suggesting that it might have offended Australian sensibilities so soon after the war. But I don't think there's much substance to such a suggestion; the engines of the cars had 'NISSAN' written in bloody great letters across the valve covers anyway......... There must be photos of the car somewhere, and some documentary evidence ( sales literature etc ) from the dealer. I'd LOVE to see that. I've never seen evidence of a complete S20-engined car displayed for sale outside Japan, and I still find it amazing to read. Only thing I have ever seen was a part cut-away display S20 race engine ( on injection ) which was shown by Nissan in Germany during the mid-Seventies. No other sightings whatsoever. Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that NOTHING was ever reported in the motoring press. To my mind, that just makes it even more likely that we are talking about a one-off ( or possibly two-off ) grey import. And I don't see what the looks of the KPGC10 have to do with it ( even though I'd say that it looked pretty damned interesting for '71 / '72 ) especially when you mention the 1200 coupe and 1600SSS ( which were pretty enough, but hardly drop-dead gorgeous ). It was the specification of the KPGC10 that was worth talking about, and worth coverage in the press - especially considering that it's race success was current and on-going at the time. "Officially sanctioned" to what level? I'm sorry, but this whole thing sounds like an exception that proves a rule. When you first mentioned official sales of S20-engined cars in Australia further back in this thread, I took it to mean that some kind of sales volume and dealer back-up was involved - possibly with some advertising and press coverage to back up the effort. Seems to me like nothing of the sort happened, and we are still talking about a one or two-off exception. I obviously made the mistake of reading more into than there ever really was ( ? ). On the contrary, I am well aware of the power of such feelings. My uncle was with the Chindits in Burma, and was taken prisoner by the Japanese. He was imprisoned as a POW first in Burma and then Thailand, and we all know what happened to those guys don't we? The Pacific War was very real here in the UK, so don't go thinking for one minute that this was a theatre of war that the British people have forgotten all about. I had to grow up with the stories ( and some of the irrational prejudices ) - so I don't think I need to be reminded of anything to do with war-related stories and their legacies. I don't think I EVER underestimate it, for I have heard the stories of the 'victors' and compared them with first-hand tales from the mouths of the 'vanquished' - some of whom I now count as relatives. I have first-hand experience of Japan over a 20-odd year period which includes an extended period of living and working there. My partner's father was an Imperial Navy surgeon during the Pacific War years, and has recounted many stories of those times to me. I have also met the parents and grandparents of many friends and work colleagues, who eventually discussed things that they had kept quiet about for many years. I even met one friend's grandfather who told me - upon meeting me for the first time - that the last time he had seen an Englishman, he was looking at him down the sight of his gun. Above all, I have come to believe that there was bravery, cowardice, chivalry and cruelty on both sides - and that the power of the victor to write the history and make the moral judgements afterwards did not change the fact that the common man and woman have always been the ones to pay for the greed, ambition and pride of a relatively small few. There are two sides to the stories, and most of us usually only ever hear one. Alan T.

26th-Z, Many thanks for your kind offer, but I did find the mag on the news stands here eventually. I think they sea-freight them over, so they are already out of date by the time they reach here....... Thanks for thinking of me. :-) Ad, I'm looking forward to seeing the Sardinia video footage. I have good memories of driving holidays in Sardinia and Corsica. Cheers, Alan T.

So, did you actually look at the KPGC10 in the showroom? Or was this actually a matter of looking at brochures / spec sheets / pictures etc for comparison with the 240Z? Was it the case that the dealer told you he could get a KPGC10 in from Japan if you paid for it? If a PGC10 / KPGC10 / KPGC110 was ever displayed in a dealer's showroom in Australia, I would have thought there would be photos / press reports etc at the time. Surely it would have been seen as fairly unusual / exotic, and the dealer would have used it as a promotional tool to attract attention? I'm just finding it hard to believe that we are talking about anything more than one or even two unofficial 'grey imports' here. Did I miss the point? Alan T.

No I didn't miss it. I read it and understood what you were saying, but I don't think the possibility that 'Nissan' might have reminded people of 'Nippon' had anything to do with official sales of PGC10 and KPGC10 models in Australia ( which is what I was interested in hearing about ). After all, if Nissan had wanted to sell the PGC10 and KPGC10 models in Australia, they would simply have re-badged them - just as they did with all the other Nissans they sold as 'Datsuns' there. So that single KPGC10 that you report was sold in Australia was probably badged as a 'Nissan', and was effectively a grey import, yes? I think it is clear that Nissan never made any attempt to market the S20-engined models outside Japan. Some of their dealers outside Japan obviously knew about the cars, and a couple of them might have imported one ( or even two ) privately or even semi-officially - but it clearly wasn't a factory-backed sales programme, or we would have seen the cars displayed at shows, and tested by the motoring press, in Australia. Alan T.

aarc240, Thanks for the additional info. So, there was at least one KPGC10 in Australia, and it then went to Germany? Sounds like it was a 'personal import' to Australia rather than an officially-marketed product. I thought you meant official factory-backed sales with advertising / marketing / promotion behind it. My mistake. I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence of 'interesting' cars being bought and sold here in the UK over the years too. Unfortunately, most of it turns out to be either complete fabrication or that "my friend's dad's cousin's postman's uncle's sister's son used to have one of those twin cam versions - but he sold it...." kind of tale. I've lost count of the number of times people have come up to me in my ZG and told me that they "used to have one of them" or in fact "used to have a genuine factory-built race version with the twin cam motor" I still hear the occasional tales of "ex-Works rally cars" in somebody's shed and the "432 in a lock-up in north London" ( er, that'll probably be my 432R replica project actually ), but the sources of the stories are usually not what they are claimed to be. I'd LOVE it if some exotica did turn up occasionally - but I'm afraid most of it never actually arrived in this country in the first place, or was lost long ago. The pond is all but fished-out. Alan T.

Like I say, that's a new one on me. So, what happened to the cars that they sold in Australia? I presume some people actually bought them? Are there any left? If not - what happened to them? Have you got any period press / advertising / sales info? Any other documentary evidence? Call me a doubting Thomas if you like, but I've never heard of proper S20-engined C10-series GT-Rs being officially sold anywhere outside Japan. The only car I know of - and this is a huge exception, and quite a unique case - was bought by Ewold van Bergen in South Africa. It was a very early PGC10. As far as I am aware, that's still the only C10 or C110 GT-R outside Japan. Alan T.

Proper S20-engined PGC10 and KPGC10 models officially sold in Australia? That's a new one on me. Or were they something else other than proper GT-Rs?

Actually, I reckon it looks worse than it really is. It is structurally sound, and very complete. It just needs a lot of time and a fair bit of money spent on it. Hopefully it will live again. If not in the hands of the present owner then in the hands of somebody else. It has lasted this long in storage after all..... I should imagine the soft trim parts would be the hardest part of a restoration on one of these?

Hello Ad, Welcome! :classic: Your car has been discussed on this thread: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20754 Alan T.

Not as far as I remember. Do you know the car / owner? Its in Japan, by the way - in case that wasn't obvious from what I wrote. Unfortunately I didn't take any front-end photos - apart from the engine bay - as I couldn't get far enough away from it to get it in frame ( with it being face-in to the garage ). It was also bloody dark in the back there........ I took more photos of the car parked up next to it; a fairly unrusty Japanese-market HS30 'Fairlady 240Z' with some nice period accessories:

Jim, I think you'll find it was a 432 type S20 rather than the more common ( ) GT-R type. Whilst we are straying onto the subject of Prince products here, I thought you might be interested in the contents of my friend's shed. He used to drive this car to college every day back in the 1970s. When he graduated, he parked it up and bought a Z. It hasn't been on the road since. Good 'barn find' - eh? :classic:

Miles is right - we have discussed inspection / manufacturing date stamps many times on this forum, so you have come to the right place Actually, if you start looking closely you will find these little clues all over the componentry of your car. The coding can differ depending on the manufacturer of the part ( there were a lot of independent companies and Nissan affiliates involved in supply ) but most of them can be deciphered with a little work. If you cross-reference as many as possible, you can often take a pretty fair stab at the likely manufacturing date-of-birth for your car ( which may or may not correspond with the date stamped on the door-jamb tag of the USA-market cars ). Look for threads and posts by the likes of forum members 'Kats' and '26th-Z' ( as well as many others ). The 'SEARCH' function of this forum is a positive gold mine. I don't think I use it enough myself - let alone advising anyone else to make use of it. To continue this discussion ( if you wish ) I recommend you try to take some close-up photos and post them here. There are a number of us here who love to see this kind of 'carchaeological' excavation ........... Good luck! Miles, Hope you have a nice 'Golden Week' holiday. This is a very nice time of year in Japan. I'm feeling nostalgic. Cheers, Alan T.

Yes, it's a real GT-R transmission. This one is the FS5C71-B for the C110 'Ken & Mary'. These were still available from Nissan up until around a year or so ago. I was tempted to get one for my project car when I was told that Nissan still had a few in stock, but I really wanted to stick to the correct 'A' type 5-speed for my 1970 'shell. I should have bought one and laid it down to mature like a fine wine. Looks like Nissan's stock has run out and prices will be climbing whilst those who salted them away will be feeling smug ( but good luck to 'em ). I wish I had the budget to be buying stuff when it pops up, and to sit on it until I need it......... Alan T.

Depends what month the original car was made. Either the FS5C71-A with the S20-type bellhousing, or the FS5C71-B with the integral S20-type bellhousing and front case. I tell you what, if anyone here buys that S20 I'll give them the correct tranny as a 'congratulations' gift. I have a couple of spares. You'll need the correct front crossmember and quite a few other parts too though......... Alan T.

Really? I thought you knew, and that was why you made the accusation. I found your contribution to the thread to be absolutely priceless too. Very constructive. Keep up the good work.

I'm not Japanese ( I'm English ) but I'll give it a shot. The 'Ken & Mary' advertising campaign characters actually predate the C110 range. They were first used on the preceding C10 range, and were carried over onto the C110 ad campaigns in print, on TV commercials, and in longer films shown in cinemas. Hold on there - that's TWO completely different scenarios in the same sentence......... I don't think anybody could seriously claim that the C110 series Skyline was ever planned to be released in the USA market. I've certainly never even heard the slightest suggestion of such a plan. I can't see how that would ever have been seen as having a good chance of commercial success. You'd have to say that the Skyline would be neither fish nor fowl in the USA market, and probably would not have a stood much chance of bulk sales against the so-called 'compacts' of the USA manufacturers ( in my opinion ). But "American styled / flavoured" is another matter altogether. I don't think there is any doubt that the image of the USA at that time was very attractive to the target customer base in Japan ( as it is now, for perhaps different reasons ). Nissan's ad campaigns certainly brought this angle to the fore - even if it was in a very 'Japanesque' way. The different actors / actresses / models who played the parts of the 'Ken & Mary' characters ( and there were many of them ) were purposely chosen to look half Japanese and half 'American' - and indeed several of them were just that. The C110 Skyline was never nicknamed the 'Ken & Mary' Skyline ( or - in the vernacular - "Kenmeri" ) until well into its production, and when the ad campaign first started the characters' names were not even used. It was only when the ad campaign became hugely popular in its own right that the characters were developed and given names. In just the same way, the C10 Skyline was never officially called the 'Hakosuka' until its nickname stuck, which was well after its launch. I suspect that this whole tale is probably an urban myth that has grown from a small grain of truth, in the same way that a pearl grows from a grain of sand. Like most urban myths, it is difficult to prove as 'false' - simply because it sounds feasible and is at least partly self-perpetuating. Most of this seems to emanate from the coincidence that 'Kenmeri' sounds a little like (A)'MeriKen' if you stick your fingers in your ears and speak backwards - which is an urban myth-maker's dream. I'm off to listen to my Led Zeppelin records played backwards at 78rpm now :eek: . Alan T. ps - I once worked with the daughter of one of the original 'Mary' actresses when I lived in Japan.

Anybody who said anything like that ( and meant it ) would be worth throwing off the forum, don't you think Chris?

Learning Japanese is a lifetime's work - even for the Japanese. One of the doubtful joys being that - even if you become fairly proficient at spoken Japanese - you will always come across Japanese people who tell you that you don't really understand what you are saying, "because you are not Japanese......". I've never tried saying that about the English language - but one day I might. :hurt: No, the 'LY' was never fitted to a Works car other than the S30-series Z. I wonder if you are getting it confused with the FJ24 engine that was used in the BS110 '240RS' model? I have a fair bit of 'LY'-specific information and data, and it would probably be easier to send this direct to you rather than add it to this thread - which started out talking about rocker covers, and grew like topsy. Alan T.

Hi daddz, I'm afraid the best sources of information about such subjects are almost always written in Japanese....... There have been a number of good articles on the L-series engine published in 'Nostalgic Hero' since it was first launched. 'Old Timer' magazine has had some good articles too. There was a really good one in 'Car' magazine a few years back, and there have also been a couple of good books covering the subject too. Period Japanese magazine and press articles from the Sixties and Seventies are also a good source ( I have quoted from them in this thread ) and give a nice glimpse of the zeitgeist of the times. Japanese car magazines of that period were ( I find ) quite intellectual, and covered subjects in great depth. Publications such as 'Car Graphic', 'Motor Fan', 'Play Drive', 'Auto Technic'. 'Autosport', 'Motor Magazine' etc etc are a mine of useful and interesting data. As for the 'RB' engine - well, we are talking about the mid 1980s here and articles from contemporary books on the Skyline range in particular are a great source, but so are most of the mags mentioned above. To be honest, you have to collect a lot of reference material and piece it together for yourself. That means getting accurate technical translations too I'm afraid. If all that seems like too much bother, you could always take the option of believing that 'Year Zero' for Nissan's L-series engines was when Katayama 'designed' the L16 over the telephone, and that the L24 was just an L16 with two extra pots. It certainly saves a whole lot of hard work......... Oh yeah, and then there's this kind of attitude to contend with: So remember, be careful not to misinterpret the "quality, content and meaning" of those Japanese "wittings"...... :classic: Alan T.

As far as I understand it, the truth is that PMC ( Prince Motor Co. ) licensed some Mercedes-patented design details ( not a whole engine design ) for their 'G7' engine - which debuted in June 1963. Hiroshi Iida and his team at Nissan designed the new 'L-gata' engine 'module' during 1964 as a direct response to arch-competitor Toyota's new 'M' series OHC sixes. Iida himself admits to having been influenced by the Mercedes engine design, and says that they used this as a "reference". However, they did not license any Mercedes patents...... I think it would be fair for us to expect Iida san and his team to have been influenced by the Prince 'G7' engine design details ( even if he is too proud to admit it ), but Prince was not merged with Nissan until well after the Nissan 'L-gata' engine module was designed and in production. There was no direct 'inheritance' of Mercedes-licensed patents transferring from Prince to Nissan in relation to the 'L-gata' module. We quite often see the history of the Nissan engine reported as a smooth sequence along the lines of 'Mercedes patents to Prince, and Prince taken over by Nissan' - but this is well wide of the mark. The situation was far more complex than that. When Dr Shinichiro Sakurai and his largely ex-Prince team at Nissan were designing the new 'RB' engine module during 1982 & 1983, they purposely used the bore spacing and head bolt pattern of the 'L' series engine as part of the design. Sakurai has been quoted as saying that they wanted the 'RB' to be a worthy successor to the long and diverse history of the 'L' series. Higher management were pushing Sakurai and his team to drop the straight six and concentrate solely on 'V' configurations, but Sakurai and many of his team wanted to preserve the Prince / Nissan straight six lineage and history, and keep the straight six layout for the Skyline and Laurel models in particular. We can draw many parallels between the 'RB' module and the 'L' module. Both of them were designed specifically to accommodate both long and short strokes, and small and large bore sizings. Both were designed to accommodate the possibility of 'high' performance and more sedate uses. So yes, an RB torque plate can be used on an 'L' series six - and it is not just a happy accident. Alan T.

The 45DCOE-13 was a 'conversion' kit carburettor, never used as standard equipment on a production road car. That means its internal spec might have been changed to suit the engine it was originally supplied for ( anything from a Mini Cooper 1275S to the Renault engine in a Lotus Europa ). They were most often fitted singly to four cylinder engines. You don't mention it, but I presume these carbs came already fitted in Japan to the original L20A in your car? If this was done a long time ago then there is a good chance that they were originally supplied as a kit by 'Far East Trading' ( 'F.E.T' ) and therefore have been supplied with changed internals to suit the L-gata engine. That's a good thing; hopefully they will already be pretty close to what you need. But personally, I would want to check and see what Accelerator Pump Rod stroke they have. The Nissan L-series 6 seems to like a 'short' ( 10mm ) Pump Rod stroke, and this improves driveability. No sense in messing with venturis, emulsion tubes and jet sizings when your Pump Rod stroke is too long. They are easy to take out ( even with the carbs installed ) so I'd recommend you confirm what you have before going any further. Alan T.

What series of 45DCOE are they, and roughly what vintage? This is very important data. No point in giving you pointers on jetting without knowing what exact model of 45DCOE carbs you are starting out with. Alan T.

Very pretty car - but you are describing it as though it is a real GTR. Is it a real S20-engined KPGC110?

Ha ha ha ha ha....... :stupid: Perhaps you'll teach me how I should quote you quoting a quote that hasn't actually been made in this thread? And I don't need to validate anything, my friend.