HS30-H

..........continued And what of other manufacturers who hoped to do well in the US market? We had a good parallel with Japan here in the UK during the Fifties and Sixties ( being both RHD native markets who needed to sell abroad to expand ). There was slogan in the factories at that time; "Export or Die!". I give you the example of the Austin A90 Atlantic, a car that was most certainly "aimed" at the US Export market. Austin took a car to Indianapolis and broke a huge number of AAA records by running the thing virually non-stop for days and nights on end - and all in a bid to break the US market. The design was conceived as a car "for" the US market, using an engine, transmission and final drive that were plucked from other domestic models. The styling of the car was what the Austin designers thought America would want. Was it a success? NO! It was widely thought of as neither fish nor fowl.......... Wait another few years and enter the MG sports car series. The T series found a few buyers but America was not really cracked big until the MGA and the MG Roadster. The Triumph sports car range TR2/3/4 etc went over very well in the US compared to the domestic ( UK ) market. Like Japan, Britain was still getting back on its feet after very literally having its back broken in the war. These kinds of cars were a luxury to us, but the US market lapped them up. But were these cars designed "for" the USA? Well, not really. The LHD models have always been regarded as compromises in the same way that a right hand drive Alfa Romeo or a right hand drive Fiat might be; the layout just does not work as well when its switched. They might badge them specially for the US market ( calling the Triumph a "TR250" for example ) and give them a few special doo-dads that they thought you would want - but they were not conceived / designed "for" the US market. You seem to say, however that the S30-series Z WAS. I think you are mixing Mr Katayama's PR speak with reality. The HLS30 model was aimed at the US export market - but the basic layout of the car DOES NOT show any evidence of having been made PRIMARILY for the LHD market. If you think it has - then please point these details out to me and argue them through. I see no evidence to support your theory that this is so. Just because the car sold so well in the US ( taking advantage of a good exchange rate and an easy passage across the Pacific ) does NOT change what the Factory were thinking and hoping for the car when it was designed. The shell was quite clearly designed with some dual-use possibility, but STILL bears all the evidence of the RHD version being prime. Most of the pre-production prototypes and mock-ups that I have seen pictures of are RHD. Isn't that a bit strange for a car that was and "America Sports Car"? Do you think this is Japanese Ego / Bias at work again? There is a certain amount ( not inconsiderable, actually ) of futility in my trying to get you to see the Japanese point of view. Remember - its not just MY opinion that I am putting forward here. There will be a certain amount of flexibility, but basically I think most Japanese people who are interested in the history of this car and have studied it carefully, or who were involved in its inception and manufacture, will be most surprised that anyone could think the way that you do. Alan T.

Wow Carl, The weather in Clearwater must be really bad. You've written the first chapter of War & Peace............... First of all - can I ask you to do me a favour? Take note of how to spell my name? Its A L A N - Alan. If you can't remember it - just take a quick peek at the bottom of my posts. Thank you. Well - after all that, it seems almost futile to resist. Perhaps I should simply cave in and concede to your totally perverse point of view. I've got to hand it to you, you certainly know how to put 'spin' on an argument. You seem to have missed your vocation, as you would have been a very successful politician ( and that is not necessarily a compliment these days ). If I use your style of quoting in great chunks then this post will end up overflowing before I've even added to it. I'll have to try to get away with quoting parts and hope that anybody who is following will refer back to the original text for context. I'm glad that you finally got the message about the HS30, and the fact that I have been trying to make people aware of RHD prototype development and production as NOT being behind the LHD model. I am surprised that you acknowledged the fact, as I see nothing to that effect in your writing on the subject ( yes - on zhome.com - which seems to contain articles that are almost exclusively written by yourself ). Maybe you will update soon? Here's a good quote from your post; " you are of course completely wrong....". Now I certainly have an opinion about this matter as a whole, but its not SOLELY my opinion. I share it with other people, and many of these people are Z enthusiasts. It will not surprise you to know ( as I am sure that you have already guessed ) that the majority of these people are Japanese. Here's a good point to drop in another quote from your posts; they may be exercising their "Japanese Ego / Bias"! I truly think that you are looking down the wrong end of the telescope, Carl. What you are writing, and the style in which you write it, is totally a restrospective view of the situation. Any attempt to poke holes in this perspective is going to be about as futile as arguing with the kind of person who posits that the earth is flat and the Moon is made of cheese. Your opinion is so entrenched, and your defences built so high, that any attack will simply bounce off. You seem also to have plenty of acolytes who wait with eager anticipation at your every utterance, and when I challenge any opinion you hold I take on these people too. Its a tough match, but you might like to reflect that just because you are using high sales figures and market share as your weapons it does not automatically follow that 'he who sells most wins'. So here I stand, faced with your Big Mac philospohy ( we sold billions of them - so they must be the best! ) armed only with the sad prospect of an English Cream Tea, wondering just what part of your defences would be the soft underbelly, and the first point to attack. Did St George have this kind of quandary when he faced The Dragon?, did David think at all before aiming at Goliath? We will probably never know. So what can I do, except swing and hope for the best? Here it is; your stance is TOTALLY wrong! You are saying that what sold most must be king. But take yourself back to the 1968 and 1969 period when NISSAN were putting the final touches to their new creation. They were sure as hell HOPING that the thing would sell well in the Export market. They were sure as hell hoping that the thing would sell well in the largest export market in the World. However - it was certainly NOT a foregone conclusion, and it would have to rely on a lot of factors that were outside their control. One of these would be good timing, and sure enough they found that they had timed their new product very well. Isn't that the point that you are missing? What if the Z had gone down in the US market like a lead balloon? Would you judge it a failure? You probably would, as you seem to be judging success or failure on your Big Mac Principle of who sells ( most ) wins....... You call the non-US market 'nitch' markets ( niche? ). If that is the case, then EVERY product ever made for the Export market will have been aimed at the USA. Its just the single biggest market in the whole World. It makes sense to hope that a product will do well in the USA. We hear it here in the UK particularly with respect to the music business; bands want to "break America" because they know it will make them more money than almost all of their other markets combined. This will keep their record companies happy and allow them the time and artistic freedom to go on and make the music that they want to. There is only one World, and the late Twentieth Century and early part of the Twenty First has been shaped this way; America is King. However, its seems quite clear to many minds outside ( and some inside ) America that tuning your product to the American market does not leave it very pure.................... I wonder if some of these people feel like Robert Johnson at the crossroads - when he sold his soul to the Devil? You call the Japanese domestic model S30S ( Fairlady Z ) a "stripped out model" - but you seem to conveniently forget about the Fairlady Z-L. This was - in all respects apart from its 2 litre engine - of EQUAL or SUPERIOR spec. to the USA model HLS30. How on earth can you posit that the USA-market model HLS30 was in any way superior to the RHD cars EXCEPT in its engine spec.? You are ignoring the fact that these models were arguably better at being "sports" cars than the USA models. Nissan ( probably at Katayama's behest ) gave you a four-speed and matching diff ratio, softer springs and dampers and no rear anti-roll bar. This was a car MADE for the USA? I don't think so. The USA-market HLS30 was a spec. that was aimed at a certain market, but you can't say that the layout of the car made any sense in LHD form. The layout of the engine and trans forced the controls of the driver's side to avoid the induction and exhaust manifolds. Sorry - but that's a fact that was forced on the designers because they had to work with what was available to them. I posit that if the S30-series Z car was, as you quoted, "An American Sports Car - made in Japan" - then they would have made a better job of the LHD version. You can think about that every time you go to use your E-brake. Alan T.

Hi Scaryfast, My project car ( replica of a 432-R ) is currently in the paint shop at FOURWAYS ENGINEERING. You can see some pics of it there in my Gallery. You can take a look at another car restored and painted at FOURWAYS by going to the Gallery of another user ( SAINT ). I was there yesterday actually, checking on the latest progress of my paint job. Its been there a long time, as I agreed to have the car worked on 'when they had space'. Finally the body is panelled up and its being primered next week if all goes according to plan. Yesterday the following cars were in the workshop; *ASTON MARTIN DBR1( 2? ) - full body-off resto. *ASTON MARTIN DB5 - rolling resto. *"PAGODA" MERC SL - engine work. *MGB ROADSTER - Ford Type 9 transmission conversion. *240Z HISTORIC RALLY CAR - half built. *432-R replica project ( mine ) - in paint shop. *240Z "70'S ROADSPORTS" class race car ( between races ). *ASTON MARTIN DB5 or ( DB6? ) VANTAGE CONV. - resto. *ASTON MARTIN "ZAGATO REPLICA" race car - resting. Interestingly, they say they prefer to work on the early Z cars much more than anything else they do. They certainly have very little in the way of compliments for the Astons! Alan T.

........and here's photo 2: Alan T.

Here are a couple of photos of the testing trip that was undertaken. I am told that this was a three month exercise ( August, September & October of 1969 ) during which a route from the Canadian Rockies to Death Valley and back was traversed many times. They wanted to take in extremes of cold and heat whilst racking up some serious mileage on these cars, and reporting their findings back to the Factory. Naturally, making sure that the cars would survive these extremes without giving trouble would be a very important part of making sure of the model's success in that particular market ( the biggest potential market in the World ). On the subject of rubber strips on the bumpers - don't forget that the Japanese Domestic market had more than one choice. The Fairlady Z was the base model with NO rubber trims on the bumpers, and the Fairlady Z-L was the higher grade model which DID have the rubber strips on the bumpers. The Fairlady Z 432 DID have the rubber strips, and the Fairlady Z 432-R did NOT have the rubber strips. Domestic models came both with and without rubbers strips on the bumpers. Here's photo 1:

Hi Carl,

Sounds like he's a little confused about what "matching numbers" means.............. Just like any other car manufacturer, Nissan did have the occasional car that didn't quite come up to standards. These cars would be sent to a special section that would usually fix the problems. A car would have to be REALLY bad for the engine to be taken out and installed in another car, or for the engine not to be installed in the first place. In any case, if this happened the VIN tag on the car could be amended ( replaced ) or if no engine had been installed then the engine number would not be on the tag in the first place. So he's talking rubbish. The engine number is not stamped on the actual "frame" ( body ) of the car - only the VIN number is actually stamped ( on the firewall ). If the engine number on this particular car does not match the engine number stamped on the tag, then its not the original engine. There were some markets where the engine number was not on the tags either............. Alan T.

I afraid I'm only endowed with a very small Hard Drive ( hence the very long nose on the car........... ). Its actually just a very large cupboard. The 'Wife' calls it something else. That's great information from Kats isn't it? Its made my weekend start off with a high. As Kats has shown, there IS more data to be got from its custodians at Nissan and I've never been happy to accept the nonsense figures and guesstimates that have been published before now. Nissan seem to be slowly stirring from their slumber and getting the message that tomorrow's PR might be helped somewhat if they took care of yesterday's heritage. I'm not sure if this is due to the fuss about the Z33 or the effects of a lot of interest and probing from people like Kats - but its certainly been more apparent that they are coming out of their shell a little. The news that they really ARE planning a proper museum in Japan has got to be good news for us all. Hats off to Kats! Alan T.

I'm afraid the figures from that "Datsun 280ZX" book are just nonsense, and cause more confusion than anything else. Its a real shame that Nissan ( USA? ) could publish something like that without making a better job of it. One of the main problems is that it is totally ignoring all the non-"240Z" models. I can't get my head around this. Why do people always talk about the "240Z" without including all the other models of S30-series Z? The HS30 and HLS30 were only TWO types of S30-series Z. I think its a big mistake to think of the 240Z model as being anything other than a PART of the S30-series Z range. I also think the American "model year" system tends to cloud the issue of actual manufacturing date. I'm personally more interested in the actual date that the car went through the Factory than the "Model Year" that the US-market assigned to it ( although I do understand WHY this system was created ). Lots of production and sales figures mix these up, and it makes things even harder to understand. You can see this confusion from the amount of questions that arise over the actual dates of these cars. I'm sorry to say that I have still not seen any DEFINITIVE production figures that include ALL the iterations of the S30 model range. I have several different sets of figures for the Japanese market, let alone any other markets and models:ermm: . Alan T.

..and another; Alan T.

Hi Kats, Well done! Its great to see new information about those early days of pre-production, and I for one certainly appreciate your efforts and the fact that you are sharing this new data. I agree with your translations of "Kojyo Shisaku" and "Seisan Shisaku". In the business that I am involved with, we use virtually the same terms in English and Japanese. We usually translate "Kojyo" as "Factory" and "Seisan" as "Production" in my business, so I would think that you could possibly translate "Kojyo Shisaku" as "Pre-Production Prototype" and "Seisan Shisaku" as "Production Prototype". Perfect translation between English and Japanese is not always possible! At the very least, these figures show that the LHD cars were not produced "first", and that there were indeed RHD cars being pre-productionised at the same time. In fact, up to November 1969 more RHD prototypes had been made than LHD prototypes. That's nice to see, as it might help to get the message across with regard to the LHD cars NOT being the "First" as is sometimes claimed. I had read in some Japanese magazine articles that the test crews in North America had come across problems that caused a hold-up in production. I had also heard that Domestic market cars had not been held up in the same way, and that the 'problems' were mainly caused by the crank vibrations on the L24 engines. Of course, the S30 and PS30 would not have suffered these, so maybe that influenced the decision to press on with Domestic production while Export production was held up? The driveshaft vibration problem was finally fixed much later with the repositioning of the diff. - so I wonder if this was too big a job to redesign in late November and December and they had to leave it until much later? Interesting. Great data, Kats. This should give us good material to discuss for some time to come! Here are some pics. of the North American test crews at work, which may be of interest to some: Alan T.

I posted a pic of the ones on my car back on the last page. Admittedly not the best angle - but you can see where they mount and roughly how they would work. Alan T.

This kind of item used to be mandatory for many other Japanese domestic models too. You can see the same function performed in different ways on different models. The story about it being a 'safety' measure is true and is not just something I dreamed up on my own. Anyone who has walked and driven on the really tight Japanese back streets where cars and trucks share the road space ( with no separation between pavement / sidewalk and road ) with pedestrians and cyclists will know what I mean. The Japanese domestic mirrors of the S30-series Z were spring-mounted for the same purpose ( safety of pedestrians ). They do indeed perform a useful function in cushioning the bumper from the sheetmetal - but that's probably just a spin-off and a piece of simple but clever design. Alan T.

Here's what the real thing looks like installed on my car ( a Japanese domestic market model ): Alan T.

They were actually a genuine Factory part. The original intention of these was to stop pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists ( and stray dogs ) being 'hooked' by the rear bumper end as the car passed close by. They also protected the end of the bumper from digging into the sheetmetal during any contact with solid objects.............. Just about every Japanese domestic market S30-series Z had these fitted to them, and I believe that at least some of the early USA-market cars had them too. Strangely, our UK-market cars did NOT have them as part of the normal spec. - although a few cars with them fitted did arrive here. I think the ones on ebay are reproductions? *19 = Part no. 62692-E4100 - BASE-rubber, bumper ( R.H ) *20 = Part no. 62693-E4100 - BASE-rubber, bumper ( L.H ) See this illustration from one of the Factory Parts Lists: Alan T. ( not necessarily a purist, though........... )

The VIN number is low because its LHD. They made very few LHD cars compared to RHD cars in that model. Remember that the LHD and RHD models had their own number sequences. The "H" in the VIN refers to the L24 engine - which is what the "P30" number on the engine block also denotes. The L24 engines had their own number sequence no matter what they were fitted to - so the engine numbers are consequently difficult to follow unless you are looking at an HLS30 and referring to data for US-import Z cars. I wouldn't want to have the task of looking for parts for this particular car. Hen's teeth and rocking-horse S**t come to mind! Alan T.

If I were you I would log into hybridz.org and do a search for "Showcars" and "G-Nose". A few members over there have dealt with this supplier and seem to be rather less than happy. With any of these 1-piece or 3-piece "G-Nose" kits ( even though they don't look like the Factory G-Nose, they still insist on calling them a G-Nose kit ) there are always fit and finish issues. The proper Factory cars used 5 pieces, and they were of VERY high quality - with captive nuts in all the right places. Even then they are slightly mobile and require a little adjustment every now and then. In my opinion, the best G-Nose replica parts are to be found in Japan, and even then they usually require a bit of work to make them mount properly and fit right. Alan T.

That's good to hear Fred. Were there some UK-mainland owners in attendance? I think I spy a dark green 2+2 in your pics, and if its the same one that I'm thinking of it is an exceptionally good car. Thanks for the report. Alan T.