HS30-H

I went back to remind myself of what this character actually said. He bumped the bidding from 15k to 100k in one shot, then dropped this comment: Despite Chrystal's words, I feel that people *should* question such antics. If this MRM character doesn't go on to bid "250k+++" then what is the true nature and purpose of his participation? On the face of it, this looks like a classic example of market pumping. Of course these sorts of shananigans go on in all kinds of fields, most obviously in the art market. Public auctions are a strange circus at the best of times, but the Bring-A-Trailer format has that extra ingredient of allowing comments (well, not all comments...) and where early S30-series Zs are concerned there seems to be a relatively small cast of characters sitting in the front row:

It appears that many comments are vetted by admin and weeded out before publication, whilst certain 'known' characters get free reign and treat BaT like it is their own personal club. Some of the loudest voices on there clearly don't know their stuff. This 'MRM' character bumped up the bidding by 85k in one bid, then passed comment on it being a '200k car'. Is it only me that finds this kind of behaviour totally lacking in credibility? This is not the technique of a smart buyer, nor the action of an informed marque enthusiast. Apparently this same guy owns the 432 that just won an award at ZCON 2020, so it figures that he doesn't actually know what he's looking at. Seems like the ZCON judges don't either. These are all symptoms of a bubble that is inflating too quickly.

Glad to help. But you are still under suspicion as a potential enemy collaborator.

Unless you've signed up to the 'Made For The USA' club, I didn't mean you in particular.

I think its interesting that some of the people who are evangelical about the similarities between Nissan's L-Gata engine range and the Mercedes M180 OHC engines and descendants are the very same people who want to deny that the L16 and L24 were direct descendants of Nissan's L20 six of 1964/65. We also get all the 'Made For The USA' stuff when the Mercedes engines had inlet and exhaust on the opposite side to the L-Gata. Funny old world, isn't it?

Great post, and I think an excellent illustration of the fact that the authorship (and Intellectual Property) of the wheels in question is firmly in the hands of M-Speed Japan, as they are THEIR interpretation of the original Kobe Seiko styling.

You're not exactly a shining star of innocence in that respect, are you? Is this the old 'Non Disclosure Agreement' thing again? It's a great technique for trying to get off the hook, but unless all cards are on the table how is anyone able to make a balanced judgment? What can you PM to people that excuses your actions in all this? I'll remind you that (setting aside M-Speed Japan's legitimate sales over the last two years) they first "came up for sale" on a Facebook post by some kid in Bulgaria who had bought them direct from the Chinese factory. And that's where you started getting actively involved, isn't it? You can call concerns for the ethics of this situation and questions over quality control "fake news" and "scaremongering", but so far you don't appear to have anything to base your reassurances on. You are attempting to sell 'new' (as in unused) wheels which carry markings that you cannot account for because you are not overseeing their manufacture. Putting your stickers on somebody else's product doesn't give you much control of quality, does it? Huh? You were the one who came up with this! So Sean, what markings do the wheels that M-Speed Japan have retailed in Japan over the last two years carry? Have you seen them? If markings are being ground off - or the moulds have been altered - then you will need to show who is responsible (and, ideally, why) but I'd want to hear both sides of the story wherever possible. I didn't see any ground-off marking on the wheels that I saw in-person in Japan. And yes, I made recommendations of the M-Speed Japan wheels as being good quality (visually) and good value, based on what I saw and what I had been told by others who had bought them. You will remember (or maybe you won't...) that you are also telling us that I'm trying to stop sales, and that I don't really want anyone else to have them. Bizarre. So, once again you're talking about 'factory price' for two products which M-Speed Japan invested in and created. Without that investment, IP and everything that goes with it you'd be nowhere. You are - quite simply - taking a free ride on somebody else's ticket. NOTHING has been stopping people buying these wheels from M-Speed Japan over the last two years. I know people pretty much all over the world who have bought them direct from Japan. I see you make these assertions as though they are fact - and I guess some people swallow it whole - allowing you to ride to the rescue, setting yourself up as some sort of saviour. And what is wrong with 14" wheels? The originals were 14". Painting this as a "grave error" is just... bizarre. Yes, a limited production 15" scale-up version of the 'Rally Mag' style was made over 10 years ago (and very nice they are too...!) but that was simply about widening the tyre options. We are in a better position now with tyres like Advan's HF Type D once again on the market, so 14" is less of a problem for tyre choice. Three suppliers in the US? You're in France. M-Speed Japan's sales are not limited to Yahoo Japan auctions. Anyone can contact them, and they have. You're talking about 'monopolies' (!?!) for a product which M-Speed Japan have brought to market? Would this line of thought also apply to your Z-Story exhausts then? I can't imagine you would accept somebody approaching your Chinese exhaust manufacturer for supply of Z-Story product, and your Chinese manufacturer selling to them. Or would you? Apparently you think its all fair game? So you're painting M-Speed Japan as one of these "un-named" (err...) and "faceless" websites? They can be contacted - in English! - and will sell overseas. What's the problem? Painting yourself as this Robin Hood 'one of us' type figure is all well and good, but when you call into question the integrity of a company whose product you have essentially picked out of their pocket, it doesn't wash with me. If you wanted to do this you should have done it clean. You should have approached M-Speed Japan to work out some kind of deal or clearance, and then put that on the table for potential customers to see before attempting to sell this product with your name on it. The situation needed to be clarified. You got ahead of yourself.

I enquired about this some months back. M-Speed Japan's representative told me that they had made a legal contract with the Chinese casting foundry when they had engaged them to manufacture their wheels for them, and that the Chinese factory had breached this contract by selling these wheels to third parties. M-Speed Japan were quite clear that they do not authorise these parallel - effectively 'back door' - sales, and that the Chinese factory are in breach of contract.

Says the factory to you, right? The factory which apparently has absolutely impeccable ethics... ...a factory you can definitely trust, right? So, to clarify, you're standing behind the quality if these wheels with what? Their word? There's that baloney again. I suppose you think that if you keep repeating it, some of it might stick. Deluded. Nurse! No, what you have done - to all intents and purposes - is collaborate with the Chinese factory in what at the very least is sharp practice and, at worst, sheer grifting. You will be in no position whatsoever to comment on the situation between the Chinese factory and M-Speed Japan unless you have spoken to both sides and come to some kind of agreement with all sides. I don't know how I can make it any more plain to you and I honestly wonder why the people close to you are not advising you to wind your neck in and to go about this the right way. I think a lawyer would give you some wise words at this point. Setting aside the fact that JDM Car Parts have no obligation to you, to M-Speed Japan or anybody else to indulge you in your 'test' idea: What exactly will you be providing? How does one of the wheels that you have got in your hands represent what will be coming out of the Chinese factory in future? That's THE WHOLE POINT about the quality. You didn't specify anything in this project. You have not created anything. There would be nothing for you to peddle if it had not been for M-Speed Japan's investment, IP, R&D, QC and everything else that goes with a project like that. M-Speed Japan had a contractual agreement with the Chinese factory so there would naturally be some control of material, quality and consistency over the last two+ years of operations, but you've stepped in out of the blue and you somehow seem to expect that you can inherit all of that? Why? Nobody needs to be "rich" to buy these wheels from M-Speed in Japan. M-Speed Japan's prices are perfectly reasonable considering the costs that will have been incurred in setting up the project, the overheads that a Japanese company incur in day-to-day operations and the profit margins that they levy on their products. That's business, and it is their business. Their main expected market was, and still is, Japan and their prices are perfectly reasonable for that market. You don't have any god-given right to step into that picture and accuse them of both "profiteering" and insufficient sell-through. It's none of your business. I'll say it again. You should have approached M-Speed Japan and talked to them about this situation before you started dealing with the Chinese factory. The possibility of a distribution deal, an agency or commission based sales would have been good topics for discussion. Did that not even occur to you? Really, what has happened to you, Sean?

Change of menu? Up to now you've been serving plenty of baloney.

@Gav240z Care to comment on this, Gavin? I don't get Sean's constant reference to the words 'Reproduction', 'Replica' - or whatever rubbery and blurred-around-the-edges terms we care to use - as being so troublesome. We all know these terms are moveable feasts at the best of times. It's just a distraction.

Everyone - but everyone! - knows that they are made in China! When M-Speed first put them on the market in Japan there was much discussion about the price points only being possible because they were made in China. I've even heard people in Japan refer to them as "the Chinese ones". It is in no way a secret. You seem to be way out of your depth here. You don't appear to have any concept of the Japanese costings, let alone the politics involved in all of this. And I'm going to point - once again - at your bizarre Straw Man style technique of putting words in someone else's mouth and then refuting them, as though it's a real thing. It isn't.

Are you honestly saying that you haven't even got M-Speed Japan's website, Yahoo Japan auctions listings or magazine ads to hand? It's not like they've been hiding their light under a bushel for the last few years, is it? You've pinched their IP and hard work, but you don't even know where from. Ye gods...

It's the key rings, isn't it? M-Speed just didn't think of offering complimentary key rings. I think you've got them beat there.

Why would I, when you obviously intend to use it as some sort of ammunition?

To what end?

Looks like Mother Theresa still wants to play ping pong. Yes, you've given me parts. Appreciated. But you make it sound like a one-way street. It wasn't, was it? Maybe you need to remind yourself... I know you had an automobile accident, and I'm pretty sure that I - along with many, many others - wished you well. Of course. I don't think you need any help in the advertising department. You are almost literally everywhere, giving it the pile-'em-high-and-sell-'em-cheap schtick. Apart, of course, from where you've been asked not to by admin who understand what is going on... Nope. Here it is again. It seems that you simply do not get the ethical problem with what you are doing. A factory with any ethics would have referred you to M-Speed before starting any business with you involving product which M-Speed developed with them. And you - if it had occurred to you - would have approached M-Speed Japan with a view to working out some kind of deal before approaching their contracted casting foundry. Why would I contact Jamel for the details of the Chinese factory? I'm not interested in the Chinese factory, and have no intention to buy anything from them. They are acting in just the way that we know these Chinese businesses have come to behave, and which - at some point in the future - may well come back to bite you in your nether regions. There's an appropriate Chinese proverb: 'He who rides the tiger is afraid to dismount'.

One last thing. Some years ago I collaborated on a project to make good quality replicas of the Kobe Seiko Nissan Works 'Rally Mag' wheels here in the UK. The casting foundry chosen was a well-known English specialist which still makes parts for Formula One teams. Real craftsmen. After the project, one well-known character (no names, no pack drill) approached the casting foundry and asked them to make a batch of wheels for him using the same patterns. He hadn't wanted to pay the full cost of the original batch despite having had the opportunity, but figured he could subsequently take advantage of other people having supplied the IP, paid for the casting patterns and undertaken all the testing and QC. He thought he was going to save himself a lot of money, and could sell wheels on to make a little profit on the side. But - as any business with any class would have done - the casting foundry told him to take a hike, and to enquire with the owner of the IP and moulds, as the wheels were not the casting foundry's to sell. Ethics, see?

Neither. Unless you count 'China' and 'Aluminum' (Aluminium) as satisfactory. Unless you (or the factory...) have changed anything, these are the same as the M-Speed Japan items. You seem to be bringing them to the table as though the sizes, weights, offsets, PCDs and centre bores were some kind of secret? They have always been available from M-Speed Japan, if you were to ask. You know, like a serious prospective buyer might... Noted. Business seller in the small-ads. Noted. But it's hardly front page news, is it? Ah, now we are getting down to the nitty gritty. You didn't really approach the factory by the front door though, did you? You ferreted out - via a Bulgarian kid who was selling wheels on Facebook - the Chinese casting foundry that M-Speed Japan contracted to make wheels for them. So without M-Speed Japan having supplied the IP and patterns, paid for the setup and prototyping, done all the R&D and everything else - including bringing these wheels to your attention in the first place - you would be nowhere, wouldn't you? M-Speed Japan had a contract with the Chinese foundry which the Chinese foundry now appears to have broken. You have opportunistically jumped in, and - without paying - you are taking advantage of everything that M-Speed Japan have done. What has "the same rate that M-Speed pays" got to do with it? You have no idea of M-Speed's costs, overheads or obligations. You are in no position to comment on M-Speed's situation. I find it hard to believe that you would write this stuff and put it in front of us. Seriously, have you not got anybody around you who you trust and who could advise you on what you are coming out with? Give your head a wobble or something. I've already stated many times that I have NO problem with good quality 'replicas' (insert chosen term here) and have myself collaborated on a project which replicated the KS Rally Mag wheels in Magnesium (and in both 14" and scaled-up 15" versions), so I have a pretty good idea of the process, the work and overheads. This "Alan doesn't want..." thing is in your head, so you need to take responsibility for it yourself. It is nothing to do with me. I've also lived and worked in Japan, with 30+ years of experience. I still work for a Japanese company, and my work involves sourcing, manufacturing and exporting of goods for the Japanese market. I know what it costs to make and source items in various territories, and what they get sold for in Japan (both retail and wholesale). Japanese prices take account of costs and overheads which you - clearly - have no idea of. You have accused M-Speed of "profiteering", but you are in no position to make such a judgment, are you? You've never even been to China to visit your suppliers, let alone Japan. M-Speed Japan are a legitimate business with staff and retail premises in Japan, and you are...? Once again, all of this "writing companion" stuff exists only in your head. Two people saying stuff you don't like to you doesn't necessarily indicate a plot or conspiracy. In fact, it's very likely that Jason has a slightly different take on this compared to mine. And I've met you, used to consider you a friend, and wonder what happened to you lately... You're offering wheels which carry Japanese industry certification marks, but you cannot produce any evidence of these standards having been met. Where's the paperwork? What grade of alloy are these wheels made from? How can you guarantee that? What QC have they been subjected to? Who owns the IP, who paid for the set-up and moulds? What's the legal situation between M-Speed Japan and the foundry in China? What material are they painted/coated with? No answers. I'm sure you'll sell some wheels, but it isn't real business is it? You've been happy enough to return serve on any ball sent your way. Plenty of spin on your shots too. You're hardly innocent, despite painting yourself as some kind of weird combination of Robin Hood and Mother Theresa of Calcutta. LOL, followed by... QED. I'll say it again. You had the opportunity to do all this the right way, and make an approach to M-Speed Japan with a view to negotiating some kind of deal with regard to taking over supply of their product, or even a licensing/commission deal. You didn't. This is why I'm saying you went via 'The Back Door'. You make your Z-Story exhausts in China, so the same thing could easily happen to you. If your exhausts - which you supplied the IP for, and did all the groundwork to create - suddenly start turning up on Facebook and forums like this one, direct from the factory and neatly sidestepping you, I reckon we'd hear you squeak in protest. End-user won't care. Hopefully nobody here would want to be the middle man in such underhand activity. Stay classy.

At this point its looking like I'll need a microscope to be able to spot any sign of your rapidly diminishing reputation. Have you not got any close friends or family who will give you a reality check? Seriously, what has happened to you in the last couple of years? Half of what you write doesn't make any sense. It's comes across on the page like some kind of stream-of-conciousness rant, setting up straw men and knocking them down whilst studiously avoiding the main points. You stated that Jason didn't know that a 7j version (you call it a '432-R' wheel) existed, but clearly he's known for several years since - as I pointed out - he borrowed an original 7j x 14" wheel from me to test fit on his car. You are wrong, right? The PS30-SB Nissan Fairlady Z432-R's standard specification wheel was the 4.5j x 14" TOPY pressed steel wheel, so Jason is indeed right. What you are calling '432-R' wheels were actually developed in 1969 by Nissan - and manufactured for them by Kobe Seiko - for use on their upcoming campaign in international rallying during 1970 and beyond. They have always been known in Japan as the 'Works Rally Mag'. You showed a photo of Nissan's first works 432-R race car in the paddock at Suzuka before its first race in January 1970 to support your assertion, but anyone at Nissan would have said that the 432-R was wearing 'Rally mags'. In January 1970 there was already a works rally 240Z testing in the south of France with multiple sets of the KS 'Rally Mag' on hand, and Dunlop Japan collaborating on tyre choices. Meanwhile, back in Japan, Kobe Seiko were working on 8-spoke magnesium wheels for the works 432-Rs... So once again we do an elaborate dance just to get you straightened out on something that you misunderstood in the first place. If you were smart enough I'd suspect it was some kind of diversionary tactic - just like all this Alan & Jason 'tag team' nonsense (you can't even spell Padawan...) - but it isn't, is it? You're not waving, you're drowning.

Since he's seen the genuine article on one of my cars, borrowed one to try out on his car (brake fit) and has long admired them, I'd say that you misunderstood him. Replicas, 'tributes', evocations, copies, 'fakes', lookalikes, variations-on-a-theme-of? These terms are moveable feasts at the best of times. Shall we try to think of some more labels for them? On the other hand, you seem to be supplying 'REAL Z Wheels' stickers for your customers whilst managing to keep a straight face. Top trolling. Actually, I agree with Ian. They are indeed not quite exact replicas. We discussed this when M-Speed first brought them to market, and the concensus was that they were a good product at a very fair price for the Japanese market. M-Speed's QC and customer service has reportedly been very good. I look forward to you addressing the (many) other questions asked.

....and? What point are you trying to make here? I stand by everything I wrote there. I was comparing the manufacturing costs of the M-Speed Japan wheels with other - Made In Japan - runs of replicas. The M-Speed replicas clearly cost less to manufacture than those previously made in Japan, and therefore M-Speed have been able to set their retail costs lower than the previous replicas were sold for. No exactly rocket science, is it? You took the quotes out of their original contexts, but they still don't support your position.

For heaven's sake Sean, when you make a reply, at least take the time to correctly format your quoting. It's easy. Just highlight the text you wish to quote and a drop-down button will appear.

If it can be registered here in the UK and obtain the correct paperwork (and I think that's a possible with a little work), then there would be nothing stopping it from being imported to anywhere else in the world and road-registered as any other imported old car would. But I think it's a moot point anyway. I feel it will sell in the UK, and probably stay in the UK.

How can you possibly be sure that the wheels you are selling are "of the same quality" as those sold by M-Speed Japan, with M-Speed's stickers and reputation riding on them? I don't see how it is within your gift to vouch for what is going on in a factory that you have never visited, and for a product which you clearly have no paper trail on which to base your statement. Straw man argument. Reproductions of these wheels have been made for many years. At least four runs that I know of were made in Japan, and one run - in Magnesium, and including a scaled-up 15" version - here in the UK. Nothing is stopping anybody from making them. You have not paid for the full costs of the wheels that you are selling here. M-Speed Japan did. You're riding on M-Speed Japan's investment. Your moral compass needs a re-set. I've asked you before whether you'd be happy for anyone to approach the Chinese factory which makes your Z-Story exhausts for you, and to start selling them without your permission. No answer. M-Speed Japan are (did you notice?) a Japanese company. They sell their goods in and from Japan. I very much doubt you know what their overheads are, or what their profit margin is, but you seem to be ready to claim that they are "manipulating the public"? How could you possibly be in a position to make that assertion? So, what's next for you? Apple Inc. products at half the official prices? Pfft. They don't need to. There's no current copyright on that shape, as I've already pointed out. Or in your case, the lack of... If you had any class, you would have approached M-Speed Japan and had a conversation with them. Maybe you could have worked something out with them. Nope, just straight to the back door, and all played out in real time on Facebook via the kid in Bulgaria. Garbage. And totally irrelevant too. You have shown photos of the wheels that you are selling, and they clearly carry cast-in logos of JWL (the standards marking of the Japan Light Wheel Alloy Association) and VIA (the Japanese Vehicle Inspection System Association registration). VIA standards testing and certification needs to take place in Japan, and the company which paid for the VIA standards testing and certification holds the paperwork. And you have what, exactly?