HS30-H

Yes, I've seen the light... Nicknamed the 'Medama'/'Eyeball Lamp', a 'late' S30-series deluxe addition:

1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973 production years. S20-engined models only.

Further reference. Factory parts manual schematic:

For reference, factory PS30 'Fairlady Z432'/PS30-SB 'Fairlady Z432-R' type coolant overflow bottle and mounting bracket:

I don't really want to put the photos on this thread. I'll message you direct. The car was destroyed. The photos explain how...

About 10 years ago I bought a Spirit Garage stainless system and fitted it to my 240ZG. The exhaust manifold was a period Nissan 'Sports Option' item, and the Spirit Garage twin pipe system mated up with it perfectly well and fitted very nicely. Good quality, good fit, nice sound and good longevity. Only thing I did was paint it black as it was possibly a little too blingy for my taste. Recommended.

Carl, can I ask who chose the title of the Lulu.com-published translation? Was it Uemura san himself, or was it (ironically) prompted by a change in target market? The original book - published by Tokyo Tosho Shuppan in June 2014 - was titled 'Fairlady Z Kaihatsu No Kiroku' (roughly translating as 'Fairlady Z Development Record') and also covers some of Uemura san's work on the S130-series. Also, the original book was a hardback with 230 pages. I notice the Lulu.com-published version is much shorter at 114 pages. Is that because of a change in format/sizing, or is this an abridged version with some original content not included for some reason? Thanks, Alan T.

Look, it's really simple. I'm interested in FACTS. You posted some (I believe) uninformed opinion and I responded to it. That's how forums like this are supposed to work, no? If you think I was wrong, by all means come back with something to support your views. I'm fairly confident that I know a thing or two about Nissan race cars - and race cars in general - for the period concerned, and it seems to me that you know a thing or two with respect to modern understanding of race car aerodynamics. I think it's unfair to point the finger at Nissan and imply that they "didn't know what they were doing" when - with the benefit of 45+ years of learning - we can can see that true aero understanding (downforce etc) was still in its infancy. Point the finger at Nissan and you have to point it at everyone. In the period we are talking about (say, 1970/71) even the likes of Porsche - a company with racing running through its veins - was making race cars with aerodynamic properties that were downright dangerous (cf 'Kurtz' and 'Langheck' 917s for example). But who said the 'Grande Nose' was considered "the ultimate" anyway? I don't know anyone who does, but its what Nissan did and it's what we got. It was - in effect - a frame on which to hang various other appendages. Without homologating it Nissan would not have been able to progress with their race efforts on Groups 4 & 5 and we would not have seen the later developments on the IMSA cars, for instance. You stated that Nissan was trying to push air under the car, but the whole point of the 'Grande Nose' was to channel air over and around the car and to restrict the air flowing through the radiator and engine bay (KEY POINT: it had to be homologated, so it had to work on the road cars without making them overheat) and the intention was ALWAYS to put an air dam underneath it (the homologation road models even had the mounting points for one) and seal the whole thing off with an undertray. So clearly, saying that Nissan was trying to push air underneath the car is wrong... Offended? I don't think you need to be, and I think we should be able to debate without fear of upsetting anyone with the strength of our convictions. Like the 'Grande Nose', I'm not perfect (who knew?) but I'm here to talk cars and I care about this stuff. In your particular case I have noted a fairly constant theme of dissing certain aspects of the topic and I respond to you with that in mind. I might well be wrong, but by the same token you might be wrong about me. Like you, I only go on what I see on the page and what that makes me imagine.

For example, this magazine ad from 1970: 'Scuderia Nissan' - despite its name - was a private business and not directly connected to Nissan. They just specialised in making race parts for Nissan vehicles.

Nissan - just like everybody else - were changing the aero packages on their cars virtually on a race-by-race basis. One of the main difficulties with introducing new bodywork parts within the framework of the JAF/FIA Group 4 and 5 rules was that they had to be evolutions of already homologated parts. Any radical change - like the 'Grande Nose' itself - had to have a fresh homologation. It wasn't simply a matter of bolting parts on a car and going racing... Who said the 'G-nose' was "the ultimate"? The HS30-H 'Fairlady 240ZG' was a homologation model, made and sold to the general public with the express purpose of legalising aero and body parts for JAF/FIA Group 4 racing. The road car didn't come with any front spoiler/air dam/splitter because it wasn't necessary for the homologation (such parts could be legalised for race use by adding them as evolutions to the homologation) and Nissan fitted a variety of different spoilers to its race cars. At that time it was tyre technology which was the main limiting factor in 'grip'.

What relevance do the above images have to do with this thread? I think you need to empty your 'Hoover' bag...

I think that's funny peculiar rather than funny ha ha... You put too much bait on your hook. You're only catching bottom feeders. The magic post-editing on the other hand is something to behold. It does however beg the question as to why it is so often necessary? Can't get it right before hitting the submit button? Change your mind after a little bit of reflection? Self doubt...? Suggestion: How about - rather than offering an opinion on the topic of the 432 in general being all but worthless and more than a little bit off limits for those perhaps not too sure of their own sexual identity - making some observations about the particular car in question? You know, the one that's actually for sale? The specific car that's (allegedly) the topic of this thread. Surely the Mother Theresa of the first gen Z world has some wisdom to impart for the good of 'The Community'? ;-)

Where I am? The original market - and still by a huge margin the main market - for the PS30 Fairlady Z432 was, and is, Japan. What relevance has my home market here in the UK with that? What a bizarre post. I note too (hopefully others will not fall for it) that you are citing 1970 sales numbers for HLS30 and HS30 prefixed cars as some kind of reference. Reference for what exactly in the context of the 432? There are no Japanese market sales included in those numbers and therefore they are crock for the purposes of most useful discussion. You seem to be running out of ideas and material.

But what does it even mean? It doesn't seem to stand up to even the lightest of scrutiny in the context of the discussion. Nobody in North America got the chance to prove whether an S30-series Z with 'Fairlady' badging would sell (let alone one with a triple carbed 24v twin cam engine, close ratio 5-speed transmission, 4.44 plate LSD, electronic ignition, magnesium wheels, quick steering and sports-oriented springing, damping and ARBs) because they never had the choice put in front of them. If you think that's because of something inherent in the nature of the potential buyers of the time - on a Darwinian 'Natural Selection' level - then I'm sorry but I'm just going to have to laugh you off the page. Patent nonsense.

But the price difference of 240Zs (certainly the softened up and dumbed down versions...) and 432s demonstrably is averaging $200,000 lately. It's a fact. So what you're saying is that the North American market got what it wanted, or - by inference - wasn't sophisticated enough to handle anything much else? I would strongly disagree. First of all many other manufacturers sold complex sporting cars into the North American market with no problem, because there were serious buyers/drivers out there with the sophistication to appreciate them and the means to buy and look after them. Your "difficult to get parts" and "a V8 would give better performance" lines don't stack up unless you are referring to the base level market (which is pretty much the same people anywhere) . But secondly, when it came to the Z North America never got given the choice to prove anything different anyway. LOVE the "girly badges" thing (what a gift! I'll quote you on that forever now). Personally speaking I think the 'Fairlady' name was a bit outdated by 1969 and could easily have been dropped, but Nissan wanted to link the S30-series to what came before it so I can see why they kept it. The genius part was the use of the letter 'Z' and all that went with it. Of course, '240' is all but meaningless and it is amusing to think that it was dreamed up in a last minute panic because the North American market would be scared to drive a 'Fairlady'. Presumably those people thought The Village People were perfect examples of heterosexual manhood? If you hate the 'Fairlady' name then it makes me inclined to like it a bit more than I otherwise would. Thanks.

Exactly what point am I missing? You seem to be trying to tell me that 911E man is right. You're talking about money and ego again I see, the inference being that anyone who buys a 432 now is an egotist with more money than sense. That might hold some water if the buyer in question bought a bad one for more than he could sell it on for, but that's something we'd have to view on a case-by-case basis don't you think? I still think you've got an inverted snob's take on the matter. I'm not sure I completely understand what benefit you are referring to above? I'm not a 432 owner, so how do I stand to gain here? I'm flattered that you'd think I have so much influence (shucks) but the market value of a PS30 Fairlady Z432 is not a function of anything I have said or done. Your words "myth" and "spin" are telling. When the 432 debuted at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show and Nissan put their top of the range model in pride of place on that rotating display stand, was it all about creating 'myth' and (literally) 'spin'? I don't think so. It was all about the package. When you classify your new car series as a 'Sports' then the most sporting iteration of that series - the most complete dynamic package for the sporting driver - is naturally going to presented as the top of the range. The 432 was the most expensive showroom stock S30-series Z when it was new (for good reason) and - with the exception of the 432R - has changed hands for the most money ever since. For the best part of 45 years that happened solely in Japan. What we are seeing recently is that a few eyes and ears outside Japan have been opened, and a few cars have been exported. Any "myth" or "spin" you might perceive has a solid foundation of 47 years of reputation and history built up by something that Nissan created for the specific purpose of being the cream of that particular crop. There might be a little hyperbolic sales patter and ill-informed flannel spun on top by the auction houses and dealers involved, but the asking prices are a function of something other than lies and exaggeration. Presumably - as the ying to that yang - you think there's no "myth" or "spin" connected to the HLS30U and its sub variants? You haven't noticed us creating the zeitgeist where a 1969 production car is more valued - both physically and philosophically - than a 1/1970 and up car? It's not a conspiracy, its natural...

Have you been eating too much cheese before going to bed? My point in bringing 'HLS30-00013' into the discussion was a (rhetorical) comparison regarding "the numbers". When 'HLS30-00013' was re-discovered/internet-publicised and discussed a few years back, somewhere among all the hyperbole mention was soon made of potential value should the car ever come onto the open market. I think I'm correct in recalling that numbers well into six figures were being thrown around, and yet - in contrast with the 432 being discussed here - 'HLS30-00013' isn't really all that different than several hundred other 1969-built HLS30-prefixed cars, or several thousand 1970-built HLS30-prefixed cars. The "it's almost the same as..." argument doesn't work, does it? Clearly the concept of 'value' is not solely about performance figures and/or relative content, and we still have not really got our teeth into the difference between the nebulous concept of 'value' vs the price...

Honda S2000? Great. Good car. Now all you need is a time machine so you can take it back to 1969 and put it into the relevant context.

So the self-styled "Ultimate Z Junkie" thinks that a 432 is all about an engine and a set of badges? Actually you might be lucky enough - if you put the effort into it - to find a proper 432-variant S20 engine for a lot less than your quoted $200k. About $50k might suffice, but you've still got a very long shopping list to fill (because a 432 isn't just an engine and a set of badges...). Part Number One is a genuine PS30 unibody, chassis number and papers, and that's going to cost you a lot more than your quoted $25k. If you're looking for an S30 you're looking for the wrong thing. If I'm mistaken about that then I've unwittingly hit the jackpot with my car. So what's the Dollar figure for the history, kudos, romance and all those other nebulous properties that come with such machinery?

Your case? It seems to be one of repeated miscomprehension and lack of imagination. You talk about "the numbers". Here are a few other 432 numbers for you to juggle with: 5, 192, 6, 15.1, 400, 25. There's some fun to be had in guessing what they refer to in this context. Here's a clue: Your 'NA 240Z' didn't have them. But of course, if you focus only on "the numbers" you miss the point. Sorry but it's something that you either get or you don't. As xs10shl pointed out, somewhere out there in the ether there's a plain vanilla 911E owner protesting that his car isn't all that much different than the 911 RS changing hands for twenty times more. Surely that 911E owner doesn't need to be told that it's not all about "the numbers"? When someone buys a 911RS they are not simply buying a set of performance figures. When you give a girl a diamond ring, you're not just giving her a stone. So you're saying that - given the free choice - you'd give her the paste over the diamond?

Thanks for the virtual Rorschach test, but my 'dimwits' comment still applies. I think it stands up to scrutiny against the likes of "For a 1/4 million bucks you get a $20,000 car and a whole lot of ego" and "I'm also not interested in how easily a fool and his money is parted, I leave that to you as well." So anybody who buys a 432 is an egotistical fool, right? You're now whining about "ad hominem attacks" but you were all for them when you were indulging yourself in the same here just a few weeks ago. Had a Road to Damascus moment? What I'm reading now doesn't seem to match up with the apologetic comments you sent to me by PM recently. Presumably you also miss the irony of whining about ad hominem attacks whilst you pepper your post in that very thing? The reason I'm calling our friends Blue and Grannyknot (and anyone else who qualifies) dimwits is because they don't get it. Blue can have the sobriquet with knobs on for his extra smallblock-equipped, orange painted faux low VIN effort, although he's only going to catch bottom feeders with his over-baited hook. Look, we've discussed these cars many, many times in the past on the classiczcars forum. I have taken part in a great many threads regarding them here and I've made clear what I think of them. The classiczcars.com forum archives are probably one of the best single-venue online resources for data - and opinion - on the PS30 and PS30-SB in the English language. I'd be immodest enough to say that I think I personally have a fairly good theoretical and practical knowledge of the variants in question, which is something the "Nice badges though, worth every penny" boys probably don't. I don't think I have anything to prove to you in that respect, even if you do think it's "...a form of weakness, in mind and personality". It seems to me that the people who are sniffing at the whole idea of the 432 (and their recent sale prices, which are simply a function of what our friend xs10shl so eloquently and succinctly describes) are only indulging themselves in their own inverted snobbery. Slating the 432 - and all that goes with that - whilst at the same time professing to be deeply interested, to the forensic level, in early production Zs and their fine details simply won't wash. By the way, I notice my retort to Blue's fake ebay ad idea (some will swallow that whole, but anyone switched on will realise that a Sumitomo S-16 caliper is a Sumitomo S-16 caliper...) was deleted and that Blue is - once again - able to edit his posts without leaving any excuse or evidence. Funny that...

By the way, I'm up for a proper discussion on the PS30 Fairlady Z432 if anyone else is. Informed, intelligent discourse - robustly presented - is always welcome. It might even pour over into a bit of philosophy (nothing means anything anyway, does it?) and there might be some mist and fog around the more nebulous edges of the topic, but we might actually get somewhere that the comments above won't take us to. Your "Emperor's clothing" and "fool and his money" comments appear to be throwaway lines intended to stir up a discourse that you are ill-equipped to take an informed part of. Perhaps you should leave it to people who know what they are talking about, or whom are willing to learn?

Moral of that particular tale: 'Don't buy crap from Blue.'

First of all, it's Alan. A-L-A-N. Got it? Secondly, the name of this forum is classiczcars.com (got it?). If you don't recognise the PS30 Fairlady Z432 as one of the most desirable, rare and interesting iterations of the S30-series Z then maybe you are on the wrong forum? If Mike is going to be looking back at anything he might want to take a peep at many of the recent posts from you and your sidekick (many of which have been, ahem, deleted...), which are often off-message, off colour and - in my opinion - more suited to the level of zcar.com than classiczcars.com. My comments about philistinism still stand. It's hard to take seriously anyone who snorts "you get a $20,000 car and a whole lot of ego", and I wonder if you would like to point it out to the 432/432R owners who frequent this forum? Does the comparison still stand if the car in question is HLS30-00013?

Reassuring to see the forum dimwits being dimwits. We can't be far from an 'LS-it' meme... The "what's all the fuss about" viewpoint is half philistinism and half luddite. If a G-Shock tells the time more accurately, why would you ever buy a vintage Girard Perregaux? Why buy an oil painting when you can have a bubble-jet printed poster for next to nothing? If she can't tell the difference, you might as well give your wife a paste ring instead of wasting all that money on a real diamond.