HS30-H

They look identical to the sets that were made for some of the 'Ferrari 250 GTO' look-sorta-alike kits based on 240Zs and 260Zs. Some of the kits were made here in the UK, in Poole, Dorset I seem to remember. Near the boat-building industry. The printing on the box looks identical to those. They also had a slight ridge in the section of the chrome moulding ( I guess trying to replicate that of the original 250 GTO ) that genuine Nissan covers did not.. They won't fit a genuine Nissan 'Grande' nose...... Alan T.

Matt, As mentioned before, you would be welcome to come and see the contents of my garages when you want. Should be some good reference material for you there; One car that's completed a body resto ( painted by Fourways too - a nice job ) and one that's just starting out on one ( a totally stripped body on trestles ), plus one that's pretty much 'on the road'. The car on trestles has some similar issues to yours, but is certainly worth saving - and it will be saved. I could come to have a look at yours some time in mid January, if that would be convenient with you. I'm in Japan for the first two weeks of the year, and it's a bit cold and dark here at the moment anyway, isn't it?! By the way, I've looked at the pics you have uploaded and - if it's any consolation - I've seen far, far worse. It's definitely worth saving I think. It can be done. Have faith! Cheers, Alan T.

Curtis Mayfield, Frederic Chopin, Thomas Tallis and Artie Shaw are in my band. I play the triangle..... I really need to have a beer with you if I ever make it over there, Stephen Oops, sorry for the diversion. Better get back into that Cash Cab.....

Ouch! Steven, I'd have hoped that you'd think better of me than that...... As far as I'm concerned ( no disrespect to the B.E.T. guy ) there's only one Robert Johnson. An absolute titan in 20th Century music, and - like so many of his contemporaries - one who died young and largely unrewarded. He might - as legend has it - have sold his soul to the devil in return for his skills, but I'd say it was a good deal. I know that you are a musician, and I'm not. I don't know about you, but for skills equivalent to the like of Robert Johnson's, I'd probably sell my soul to the devil at a crossroads too....... Alan T.

"...according to Wikipedia..." Must be true then! As per my first post on this topic, "Datsun" was not capable of making anything, because 'Datsun' was simply a badge. The manufacturer - the company that made the 240Zs as well as the Fairlady Zs - was Nissan. And the first S30-series Z to be given a chassis number ( and therefore a tangible identity ) was - according to the manufacturer - an 'S30' prefixed 'Fairlady Z', not a '240Z'. But anyway, what a strange question for a quiz... I might have taken the wrong turning somewhere. Shouldn't have asked Robert Johnson for directions...... :paranoid: Alan T.

Fantastic work, Kats. Thank you! Yoshida san's statement ( with his strong words about Goertz ) is going to be very useful for the future. We can be sure that more journalists will make the same "designed by Goertz" mistake we have read so many times, so the more first-hand quotes from the real people concerned the better. Nice too to see Kimura san once again stating that he had almost finalised the CSP311's styling before Goertz became involved, and Yoshida san confirm that he worked on the CSP311's interior. Nostalgic Hero magazine published Kimura san's side of the story some years ago, but few non-Japanese journalists got the message..... Carl, Speaking only for myself, I have always been amazed that Goertz had the brass neck to accept the plaudits for the styling of the S30-series Z when he must have known that not a single line, and not a single detail on it was from his pen. As an experienced stylist ( even calling him a 'designer' is a little tenuous ) with an educated eye, he must surely have known beyond all shadow of doubt that the Z was not his. His later story ( the "they designed it, but I showed them how" version ) pretty much acknowledges this, I believe. I can't imagine that he really did believe that the Z was related in any way to his 'designs', but he may very well have believed that he deserved some kind of recognition for the time he spent at Nissan ( and Yamaha ). Goertz was a very complex and wily individual, and certainly knew how to turn situations to his own advantage. He exploited the fact that Japanese company staff were not going to be seeking any limelight in that period, and he exploited the - very real - language gap which meant that the truth about his real work in Japan was obscured. I'm convinced that Goertz believed he had been contracted by Nissan as a stylist / designer, and that he would be styling and designing when he was there. In actual fact, he seems to have spent most of his time there ( a total measured in weeks, let's not forget ) demonstrating the latest methods in 3D modelling and clays, and making slight changes to the work of others. The styling projects he was involved in did not come to mainstream production, so he felt - some time down the line - that he needed to rescue something out of it all for himself. Associating himself with the S30-series Z did just that. Job done. I don't know why everybody is usually so polite about Goertz. I think he knew what he was doing, and had plenty of opportunities to give credit where credit was most certainly due. He didn't, and that's why I don't respect him. Alan T.

Kats, I'd prefer to see the whole document, and make a better - and more measured - attempt at an interpretation, without losing the feeling of what Tamura san wrote. These tasters are great, but maybe we can discuss this in depth after you have met Tamura san and Yoshida san on 31st? It would be nice to get more of the context behind the whole story. I'm mindful that we could be getting a little too excited here. If we perceive any conflicting details in the personal stories of The Team ( and we should be in no doubt that this whole thing was a team effort ) then I think our job - as enthusiastic outsiders - is to steady the boat and take the broader view. If some of the players in the story have particular allegiances and differing loyalties, then we should try to see the situation from their perspectives too. I don't want us to be responsible for marginalising any of the players, or reigniting old flames of conflict. All of these guys are heroes to me. I want to hear all of their stories. I think the 'truth' will lie somewhere in the middle of all of their stories, and I'm certainly not forgetting the engineers ( like Uemura, Benitani and Kamahara ). Let's give them all the benefit of the doubt. Eventually, we will know the 'truth' when we see it One thing that comes through from Tamura san's story so far ( thank you Kats! ) is the feeling that the design soon took on a life of it's own. All the effort, energy, dreams and hopes invested in it took hold, and it became bigger than all of them both as individuals and as a team. I think man's great creations that 'work' can do that. It's some kind of extra supernatural magic. Like capturing lightning in a bottle..... Alan T.

Carl, Thanks for that. But your own 'History Time Line' on zhome.com states that "The 240-Z goes on sale in the U.S. on October 22, 1969." That date can only relate to the 'event' at the Pierre Hotel in New York, surely? Did they actually have a car present? If so, what car was it ( was it one of the 'Kaku-U' North American Test cars? )? Who was present? Were the general public invited? Has anybody ever seen any photos of the event? I know I haven't. The whole thing sounds rather low key to me, and certainly at odds with the 'Made for the USA' fanfares that would follow the HLS30U's press in the USA. With Nissan's Japan press preview having taken place in Ginza on 18th October, and the Tokyo Auto Show opening its doors on 24th October, I think the date of 22nd October is very interesting too. It makes me wonder whether Katayama felt his thunder was being stolen somewhat, and made some hasty arrangements.... ? Here's a picture that was credited with being taken at the 1970 'New York Automobile Show'. Our old 'friend' Albrecht Goertz is notable in his presence next to the car ( like it's any of his business ) and present too was Larry Shinoda of GM. What was the actual date of the 1970 NY show? Did it actually take place in 1969, or early in 1970? Try as I might, I can't find much mention of it. Alan T.

Kats, I really like what Tamura san writes here. That's the profile of the door in cross-section, isn't it? He talks about making parts of the body on the 'A-an' ( 'Plan' / 'Prototype' A ) more 'sharp'. Sharpening up the side profile, sharpening up the rear, reducing the overhang of the bonnet. When he says 'sharp', I start to think of the Japanese use of the English word, which implies just as much about style as it does about actual shape. I also thought about the words 'crisp', and 'clean'. Overall, he's talking about a process of definition, of refinement. His comment at the bottom of that page is nice. He says that "...through these refinements, prototype 'A' became more of a 'sports' car." Alan T.

'240Z' model price was not mentioned at the show, because it was not officially sold in Japan - although it could be bought through Nissan's Diplomatic & Export Sales office in Tokyo. Initial ( basic ) prices were quoted at the show as follows: S30-S 'Fairlady Z' standard model = 930,000 JPY S30 'Fairlady Z-L' deluxe model = 1,080,000 JPY PS30 'Fairlady Z432' model = 1,850,00 JPY Hard to put this into context with average earnings in Japan at the time ( depends what figure you use, and it's quite subjective in relation to living standards ) but perhaps some comparisons with other Nissan products on the stand at the same show might help? For example: GC10 'Skyline 2000GT' sporty 4-door sedan = 860,000 JPY 510 'Bluebird 1600 DX' 4-door = 654,000 JPY 510 'Bluebird 1600 SSS' 2 door = 768,500 JPY B110 'Sunny DX' 4-door = 415,000 JPY The cheapest 'Fairlady Z' model might have been within reach price-wise, but I believe the young family man would feel pressured to go for something a bit more practical ( esp. with 4 seats ). The 432 was twice the price of the Z-Std........

I don't think we should necessarily read this is any kind of deliberate slight from Matsuo san. The book that your cropped photo was published in wasn't actually written by Katayama and Matsuo ( despite the credits ). Matsuo san told me that it was written by Miki Press staff after many interviews and much correspondence, and Matsuo certainly wasn't responsible for the graphic layout or the English picture captions. You might notice that the names of the people in the cropped photo you posted are credited differently than those in the uncropped photo I posted. I believe that the caption for the cropped photo in the Miki Press book misidentifies Chiba san as Yoshida san, and calls Yoshida san "Nishikawa". There are several other captioning mistakes in the same book. Let's not get carried away with all this. As I have mentioned before, it will be no surprise to hear that the different characters in the proceedings have different recollections of events, and their own perceptions of 'pecking order' will come into play too. Hindsight after 40 and more years is not necessarily 100% factual, and - with Matsuo leaving Nissan under a cloud whilst most of the others stayed on - a certain amount of politics can be expected. For sure, the whole styling and prototyping process will have been a very organic and subjective one. There's also the name of Yoichi Shitara to remember, as he too is credited with work on some of the exterior clay modelling. Don't see his name mentioned very often.... But at least we know the names of the main protagonists in the story, and we have photos of them at work. Contrast this with the fact that just a few weeks ago another 'Datsun 240Z' article was published in a UK classic car magazine, and - as usual - it implies that Goertz had input into the actual design of the car. It's the same old horse $^!#. The man never drew a single line that ended up on the S30-series Z, and yet we still see credit both given and implied. Crazy. Alan T.

Thank you for your kind words, Kats. I think there are lots of things that I have not even seen yet, so I will keep searching. I will keep going with this thread too. I want to follow up by giving some context - showing some of the other cars that were on the Nissan stand at the show, and the enormous amount of press coverage that the S30-series Z generated in Japan in the weeks after its release. Some of the road tests for example are amazingly thorough. My scanner will be working hard. Thanks for that Chris, but I'm not sure I follow? What actually happened on 22nd October? Did somebody open an envelope...... ? Seriously - if there was some kind of event or happening in the USA on October 22nd, then what was it? I'd really like to get to the bottom of it once and for all. I see October 22nd listed in a 'Time Line' on zhome.com ( it reads kind of like: "Genesis - world created, Adam & Eve arrive in Garden of Eden. Oct.22nd 1969, Z goes on sale in USA" ) but I honestly have no idea what actually took place on that day. Alan T.

That should read: "...but due to changes to accommodate the L20A, L24 and S20 engines...." Carl, Interviews with the main protagonists in this story would ideally be conducted with them all sitting around the same table at the same time. Relying on ( translated ) answers to translated questions something like 35 years after the fact is not really satisfactory. I very much doubt we will fully understand exactly who was responsible for each minute detail given that each character naturally has their own take on events. Anyone familiar with Akutagawa Ryunosuke's classic story 'Yabu no naka' ( 'In a bamboo grove' - later used loosely as the basis for the film 'Rashomon', directed by Kurosawa ) will be familiar with the phenomenon. Alan T.

Kats, Great topic! It's so nice that we are beginning to hear more and more from the 'hands on' people at the core of the team. You are bringing their stories to us. Thank you. First picture: left to right, Yoshida san, Chiba san, Matsuo san, Tamura san. ( Tamura san looks so young, and Chiba san looks like he is a model for the 'Jun Men' brand. So stylish! ) Second picture: I believe Tamura san on the left, and Matsuo san on the right. These men ( and a few others ) are largely unsung heroes.

In a word, yes. No LHD S30-series Zs were officially marketed and sold with 'Fairlady' name badging, as far as I am aware. SP/SR roadsters are a whole other kettle of fish.... Back to the main topic: Here are some pics of what I believe was the first official S30-series Z related sales flyer / pamphlet to be freely distributed in Japan. I am told that these were handed out from the booth on Nissan's stand at the '69 Tokyo Auto Show. It unfolds to become a two-sided mini poster ( 44cm x 36cm ) with a quaint mix of photos and illustrations, and a fair bit of technical spec content. It's all part of that initial "Your Dreams Come True" Japanese sales campaign:

Enrique, No official factory LHD models of S30-series Z were badged as 'Fairlady Z' or 'Fairlady 240Z' / 'Fairlady 260Z' as far as I am aware. I think the only examples I've seen were pictures of a few HLS30 factory Works rally cars, and the odd one or two LHD circuit racing cars in Japan, so I'd consider these the exception that proves the rule. Alan T.

Ron, Most of those guys seem to be thinking that they'll never be able to afford one....! If you look carefully, you can see that the fellow on the extreme right has picked up a few flyers and sales brochures at the show, and one of them is clearly the Nissan full model range brochure with NISSAN in big white letters on the front. Here it is below, along with a few other flyer and brochure images from the show ( the bigger ones won't fit on my scanner.... ):

It stands for 'Luxe' or 'Luxury', depending on what Nissan publication of the period you refer to. Nissan's internal shorthand for the 'S30' Z-L model was often 'ZDX' ( meaning 'Z Deluxe' ) whilst the more basic, cheaper and obviously less luxurious 'S30-S' model was nicknamed the 'ZS' or 'Z-Std'. The 'PS30' Z432 model was nicknamed 'PZ' internally at Nissan ( 'P' standing for 'Prince' in this instance - a nod of the head to the Prince DNA of its S20 engine ) and the super-lightweight 'PS30-SB' Z432-R model was nicknamed the 'PZR' ( the 'R' standing for 'Race' ). Fun isn't it?

Hi Mike, Thanks for the kind offer, but actually I've got that booklet too ( as well as parts 2 & 3! ). They are published by the people behind Car Graphic magazine, so when you look back through period issues of CG you can see some of these original photos in the magazines of the time, and also the ones from different angles / perspectives in the booklet. Fascinating stuff, but I agree - not enough coverage on the '69 show and very disappointing on the Zs in particular. The clear indicator lenses are a bit of a mystery really, as the parts lists don't identify them as belonging to any specific market. They are marked as 'OP' ( Option ) parts in the RHD Export parts lists ( where they are called - somewhat quaintly - "Uncolor" lenses ) and the only early cars I recall seeing them fitted to were the two stock HS30s that were sent to the UK in 1970 ( didn't some of the very early Australian market cars have them too? ), and most of the early Works 240Z rally cars. They were wired up as running lights / auxiliary side lights on the Works cars and, technically speaking, I believe they were illegal in the UK. I seem to remember that this was a very recent change in Construction And Use regulations for the UK at the time. The same one that caused the re-design on the UK market valance corners, and delayed UK imports for quite a while.... So - to answer your question - I don't know why this car was fitted with the 'Uncolor' lenses, but looking at the rest of that car it seems to be something of an amalgam of details not necessarily all seen on one particular market model. Did you notice the antenna hole blanking grommet? That's the '432R' standard equipment type rear spoiler too. Interestingly, one of the Japanese magazines reporting on the show in period mentions that a 'hi-po' version of the 240Z would also be available ( triple carbs etc ) much like that single page flyer for the 'Datsun 240Z Sports' with the red car on the front, but this could just be an echo of something that had already been dropped. I'm sure we've discussed this blue car on here before in another thread. Kats had some interesting observations about it, I recall? It would be fun to guess at its chassis number..... Hi Steve, Glad you enjoyed them. My pleasure. That article repeats the statement that "The Datsun 240Z first went on sale in the United States on October 22nd 1969...." Can anybody actually substantiate this? Where did it go "on sale" ( a show, a dealership? ) and how? I don't think there could have been any specific cars "on sale" in the USA at that point, let alone a 100% fixed specification and - therefore - a price that reflected exactly what the customer would get. Somebody may have put a deposit down, given a verbal or written 'order' ( how? ) against a flyer, but I think it's a long way from a model physically going "on sale". Has anybody got any evidence that might back this claim up? Alan T.

In the weeks following the show, the Japanese press began to publish their December 1969 issues - many of which would feature the new Z models in editorial coverage, and carry high-profile advertisements from Nissan's 'Your Dream Comes True' campaign for the domestic Z range:

And on the floor area of the Nissan stand, a 920 'Safari Gold' 'S30' variant 'Fairlady Z-L' model:

On an impressive banked display ( no doubt evoking Fuji Speedway ) with a banner reading '69 NIPPON GP WINNER NISSAN R382 AND NISSAN SPORTY CARS', were that very R382, the '69 East African Safari Rally winning 510 Bluebird, the '69 Japan GP Touring Car race winning PGC10 Skyline GT-R, and a blue 'HLS30' variant 'Datsun 240Z', wearing number plates that read "Fairlady Z Export Version":

Displayed on a rotating circular platform right outside Nissan's main booth, an orange PS30 'Fairlady Z432' attracted a lot of attention, and certainly had the wow factor:

Here we are on 24th October 2009, exactly forty years to the day after Nissan's new S30-series 'Z' models debuted at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show. The Japanese press had been invited to an exclusive preview of the new S30-series range at Nissan's Ginza HQ a week earlier, but at 9.55am on 24th October the doors to the 16th Tokyo Auto Show - held at the Tokyo International Trade Center in Harumi - were opened to the general public, with Prince Takamatsu of the Japanese royal family performing the opening ceremony. Over the next 14 days, over 1.5 million people would pass through the doors of the exhibition, viewing 722 vehicles and 256 exhibitors stands. This was the world public debut of the S30-series Z..... Happy Anniversary! Some images from the show:

Carl, whilst I can relate to the emotional investment you - and people like you - had in the 'Datsun' brand, I also think you were kidding yourselves. Somehow it seems that you were all but brainwashed into thinking that 'Datsun' was an entity quite separate from Nissan Motor Co. Of course, it wasn't. The way you speak about Yutaka Katayama ( yes, a great man ) is symptomatic of the problem that Nissan faced. One would think that Katayama was the architect of everything involved in creating the successes that you feel you were a part of. It's almost as though the huge organisation back in Japan - planning and building plants and facilities, designing, engineering and building the products to sell, as well as the logistics of transporting and selling them - was all down to Katayama. It demotes the huge organisation that was supplying the product Katayama was selling - and the very many souls involved - to some faceless factory staffed by "bankers". The fact is that Katayama, just as much as his oft-acknowledged skills and inspiration, was lucky. Lucky to have been in the position he was in during a golden age that we will probably never see the like of again. Just a little earlier, or a little later, and his very task would have been completely different, let alone his level of success. The success with which he was associated was unsustainable, and yet people are quite ready to attribute Datsun / Nissan's subsequent troubles to Katayama's absence, and blame that absence on some story of 'revenge'. The truth is actually a lot more complicated than that, and it's certainly not all about egos and bloodletting like some Shakespearean drama. Alan T.