HS30-H

Great video, Ron. Congrats! The car looks stunning on the move. Can I ask: Is there anything on the car that you think isn't representative of the original '46' BRE car? Anything that you couldn't accurately replicate, or were not allowed to replicate ( EG due to modern safety regulations, etc )? Anything you'd ideally like to change? Any missing parts you'd like to find? After seeing the video, I'm wondering about springing & damping too. Does your car have similar spring / damper / ARB rates to those on the original car? Cheers, Alan T.

Craig, I think your original post made a very good point, and deserved a reply. It's a subject that a few people over here are talking about now that the car has come up for sale. I think there's little doubt that the major part of 'Big Sam's' history is with the 'shell that it's in now. This is the 'shell that won the Modsports championship and everything that came after that. It also happens to have been an ex-Works rally car ( with it's own interesting history, including a connection to the 1973 Monte Carlo Rallye, the 1973 Scottish Rally, the 1973 Burmah Rally and some other notable events here in the UK ) which is an interesting side-story. Getting too fixated on the re-shell ( re-shells! ) is to miss point - this iteration of the car is arguably its most successful, and this iteration is 'Big Sam'. A few years ago, Bonhams sold a couple of cars that were described as genuine ex-Works rally 240Zs. In fact they had both been re-shelled, and the replacement 'shells were standard road cars - one a Fairlady Z-L, and one a UK market 240Z. As the original rally cars were both 1970-built lightweights ( proper PZR style bodies, with all the FRP and Plexiglass ) this was a case of like not being replaced with like, and it amounted to a conglomeration of some ex-Works parts being attached to a pair of standard road cars. The baby was thrown out with the bathwater, so to speak. That's clearly not the case with 'Big Sam'.... Bonhams have given 'Big Sam' an estimate of £40,00 to £60,000 GBP, which I think - if we were to compare it to other marques and models with a similar level of history - is decidedly conservative. Alan T.

It's an interesting question, and brings us to the concept of what is now known as 'Continuous History'.... The story of 'Big Sam' includes three bodyshells if we include the identity of the ex-Rob Grant race car ( what I have been calling 'Big Sam Version 1' for a while now ) and the fact that this itself was a re-shell. We can draw a continuous line from the very first Rob Grant race car - which was based on a 1970 RHD ex-Works rally car - through the second Rob Grant race car ( a re-shell following a major crash ) which also used a 1970 RHD ex-Works rally 'shell. This became the first 'Big Sam' ( not much more than a re-paint and some signwriting at first ), which was comprehensively crashed mid-season - requiring yet another bodyshell. The replacement bodyshell used was from a 1972 LHD ex-Works rally car, which itself needed not a little straightening and conversion from LHD to RHD. I call the result - the car that is being sold by Bonhams - 'Big Sam Version 2'. Anybody who fells a little confused at this point has my sympathy.... So, no less than three bodyshells ( all of them ex-Works rally car bodyshells, but the first two being arguably a little more special than the third ) converge into the 'Big Sam' story. Some of the components from the first and second are incorporated in the third. Anyone who buys 'Big Sam' as it is now is also buying that 'Continuous History', but would probably be well advised to concentrate on what the car is now rather than all the other stuff. The world of old racing cars is quite familiar with such questions of new chassis, new body, old identity and the cans of worms therein. It becomes a question of philosophy in the end. The car as it stands now is eligible for competition in more than one race series, and it would be great to see it rubbing shoulders with it's contemporaries again. It's a great package. Alan T.

Just a quick heads-up on a forthcoming event here in the UK: 'Big Sam' - the Datsun 240Z race car of some repute - has been entered into the Bonhams auction at the Silverstone Classic meeting ( http://www.silverstoneclassic.com/ ), to be held on Saturday 24th July 2010. Attached below are some scans of the auction catalogue. I'll let the catalogue description of the car speak for itself. It's a very interesting car, with a fairly complicated history. It will be interesting to see what price it sells for.... Cheers, Alan T.

Come on Rick, no point in writing that here and then not mentioning what those 2 or 3 corrections would be. Yutaka Katayama is a great man, but what exactly would you thank him for, Rick? He didn't conceive the idea of a replacement / successor to the SP/SR Fairlady line, he didn't style, design or engineer the S30-series Z, and - arguably - it pretty much could have sold itself at the time it was released ( being lucky enough to have been born into a boom time ). Katayama was a cog in a very large machine. Making him 'King Cog' only serves to demote others, and cast long shadows. He was - above all - a salesman. I would say that one of his biggest successes has been selling the concept of 'Mr K.'.... I think you might have a few of your wires crossed here.... First of all, Toyo Kogyo ( Mazda ) acquired their rights to the Rotary Engine from NSU in July 1961. Secondly, their 'Project X605' ( which became the 'RX7' ) began in May 1976. The 'RX-7' officially went on sale in March 1978. Maybe you are thinking of any number of Mazda concept cars ( RX-500, X020A/Z, X110, X020G ) that never reached production? Whatever way you look at it, the S30-series Z must have been one of Mazda's reference points when they were working on the X605. The RX7 certainly wasn't anything like a 'copy' of the Z, anyway. Alan T.

Sorry to catch you at a busy time, Carl. And Rome is crazy at this time of year. She's going to see crowds.... I'd love to see one of those invites. So it was 'official' ( at least according to the PR firm ), but still inaccurate. You take my point? This was not The International Preview, was it? If anything, this was the USA / North American Press Preview. As mentioned before, the whole at-launch S30-series range ( including an LHD Export market Datsun 240Z ) had been seen at Nissan's 'Press Preview' event in Japan on 18th October, and then - open to the general public remember - at the Tokyo Motor Show from 24th October. Both were international events by their very nature. I understand the use of Press Packs etc ( even own a few souvenirs of these myself ) but my point was that the considerable effort in putting on these one day New York and Los Angeles events seems to have generated relatively little bang for its buck. Certainly little to justify its claim as being the 'International Preview'. As far as I can tell - and I have a lot of Japanese literature from the period - it seems not to have been mentioned in the Japanese press, where you might expect it to have generated some interest ( had they known about it in advance..... ). In contrast they covered just about every major auto show in the world, in considerable depth, at the time. It seems to me to have been more to do with NMC USA than NMC Japan - although it would of course have needed a certain amount of blessing from NMC Japan. I don't think we are hearing the full back-story here. That "out of respect for Detroit" quote doesn't seem to bear much scrutiny either. It'd be worth digging a little deeper to find out whether Katayama thought the timing of the Tokyo show was stealing his thunder, and the NY and LA hotel events were at least partly in response to this, considering the poor timing of the major North American market shows. That can't be correct. Nissan's stand at the '69 Tokyo Motor Show was huge ( you've seen the pictures, right? ), the event lasting many days, and with 1.5 million visitors through the doors. No comparison. Quite extraordinary. Makes me think of a surfer not realising that he had a tidal wave coming up behind him, or the recording industry guys who turned down The Beatles. Did he not notice the ( 'Fairlady Z Export Model' ) LHD Datsun 240Z on the Nissan stand? Maybe he spent a little too long in the Bar? I'm convinced that there's more to all this than we currently know. Cheers, Alan T.

OK, I'll try to simplify this a little for you in an effort to elicit a response: *Where did the words "International Preview of the Datsun 240Z" come from? Are they quoted from the NY Times article, are they quoted from a Nissan ( or NMC USA ) document, or are they simply yours? *Did any press coverage from these New York and Los Angeles hotel 'trunk shows' use a photo of the car which was actually taken at the hotel? *The dates of these New York and Los Angeles one-day events seem to have been timed ( almost ) to correspond with the events going on in Japan, but they seem rather ad hoc in comparison. There's obviously a back-story here, but it is being ignored. You don't have any thoughts on that? Anybody care to comment? Nature abhors a vacuum. Alan T.

Carl, I'd like to query some of the above. First of all, Nissan Motors Japan held their first 'Press Preview' of the new S30-series Z range in Japan on 18th October 1969. At least one Export Model LHD 'Datsun 240Z' was present too. Considering the fact that this was intended strictly for the 'Press' ( ie - not open to the general public ), would it not be fair to call the description of the event at the Pierre Hotel in New York ( on 22nd October ) something rather less grand than the "International Preview" of the Datsun 240Z, and point out that this too was aimed only at the Press? If it was for the general public, then it wasn't anything more than a local 'Preview', and if it was only for the Press, then it was too late to call it the "International Preview" anyway. I think those dates are significant. The 1969 Detroit Auto Show was held from 30th November to 8th December, whilst the Tokyo Auto Show was several weeks earlier - starting on 24th October. Mr Dunn may very well claim that the decision not to debut the new model in Detroit was out of "respect" ( although it'd make me wonder what car shows are actually for, and whether Nissan showed anything else at the '69 Detroit Show? ) but it looks to me as though the NY and LA hotel events were all rather last minute, arguably organised in reaction to what was going on in Japan, and also arguably looking all a little bit last-minute, despite Mr Dunn's apparent claims that it was all organised "weeks in advance" ( I'd have expected several months, but that's just me )... And considering the lengths that were gone to ( flying a single car into both NY and LA, and then flying the press in from Detroit...?! ) I think it all got precious little coverage in the "International" motoring press. So isn't it actually the case that the Pierre Hotel event wasn't "The International Preview" of the Nissan S30-series Z range or the 'Datsun 240Z', and that any such grand title would go to either the Japanese 'Press Preview' day ( on 18th October ) or the opening of the Tokyo Motor Show to the general public ( on 24th October )? I'd say that the whole thing smacks of Yutaka Katayama - in a fairly typical example of the tail trying to wag the dog - making a concerted effort not to be 'outdone' by the men in black hats back in Ginza. But again, I guess that's just me. :classic: Alan T.

Dear Mr Moonpup, Είστε το πίσω τέλος ενός αλόγου! And here's a little souvenir of the real "#13" for you. You have my permission to use it as your screensaver. Enjoy! Έχετε μια συμπαθητική ημέρα! Alan T.

Go on then, care less. Go on then. Oh, hang on - you're just saying theoretically, right? OK, I get it.... But seriously, are you sure you're commenting on the right thread ( or on the right car? )? I think the general concensus here so far has been that the car is not all that attractive a proposition except for its ( relatively ) low body serial number. I don't think anyone's hyping it up as the best thing since sliced bread, or telling us that it's a copper-bottomed negative-equity beating 'investment'. Well, not too many people turned them into race cars in 1969 ( unless you know better? ), but the cars that have been race cars for most of their lives are now some of the most sought-after of S30-series Z cars. Rather than 'scolding' the owners / builders, I think most of us would pat them on the back and congratulate them. I for one would always be drawn to the scruffy old race car rather than the 'Concours' stock car standing next to it. There's an interesting period race car coming up for auction here in England next month, and the auction house have put an estimate of £40,000 to £60,000 ( that's roughly $60,000 to $90,000 US at the moment ) and some are saying that it's actually pretty 'cheap' if it goes for that kind of money. It'll be interesting to see what it gets knocked down for. You can't buy the kind of history that this car has all that often.... The slightly strange thing at the moment is that these cars are fetching quite a lot less than some of their contemporaries. 26th-Z commented a few days ago that they are hugely cheaper than most of the 'Big' Healeys, and cars that are considered mechanically and/or cosmetically 'inferior' are worth more. I guess it might have something to do with the perception that tens of thousands of them survive. Is the S30-series Z a victim of its own commercial success? As for 'customising' or modifying the cars, in my experience the same kind of rivet-counting and pecking orders exist in those circles as they do in 'stock' or 'collector' car circles. If your car doesn't have the 'right' parts on it, if it wasn't engineered or built well, or - horror of horrors - it doesn't even look good, then it's going to be considered lower down in the pecking order - and therefore worth less - than one that has and does. Same thing as all big boy's toys, in fact. Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't think you're going to give anyone here heart failure if you were to buy "#400 Z" ( ) and "throw" a turbo or LSX engine in there. In fact, you might find that some so-called 'collectors' would be quite happy to see another possible competitor in their game of Low-VIN Bingo elimininated....... Alan T.

So basically everybody, but me in particular. Noted. I'd say a lot of it has to do with the "#400 Z" ( ha ha! I see what you did there...! ). If you can't accept that a discussion about the spec and details of a particular car ( in this case, a lot was posted about its OEM paint colour for example ) will naturally bring up related discussions, then I really wonder what it is you expect to see when you participate in a forum? Some of our best collective 'work' comes through such sidetracking. Show me a thread without any subject drift and digression, and I'll show you a pretty dry - and possibly rather short - thread. "Another fight"? "Grow up"? You accuse somebody of "bitching like a little girl" ( and "quitcherbitchen" - which is a new one on me ) and then you ask them to "grow up". Bizarre. And you write this over your rather hefty signature line 'advertising' too. The irony appears to be lost on you. Seems to me that none of this is really about what is written or the way it is written, but more about who is writing it. If that wasn't the case, then 'zcar70' should be complaining about a few posts in this thread other than just mine..... For the record, I think threads like this are the very essence of this forum. The forum takes a specific early car ( it's for sale, so everybody and his dog can pick faults in it without any thought for the owner or his feelings ) and then takes it apart at the same time as telling us what it's 'really' worth. Speculations are made, and somebody pops up with some bad data which is quickly revealed to be mistaken. Somebody takes offence at something a little too easily, and a storm brews in a teacup. It'll soon blow over. Meanwhile, "#400Z" ( tee hee ) is still for sale. Really, what's not to like? "Quitcherbitchen" indeed. Alan T.

To whom ( and / or what ) is this post directed?

No, we can't even let it put its pyjamas on. That's not the paint shop, so it doesn't say anything about batches of cars during the painting process.... *Please do not see this as an attack on you, your family, the USA and its dependants and/or anybody else. Your rights are not affected* Cordially, yr hmble svnt in EU, etc etc Alan T.

Once again, you are accusing me of being "nasty", "sarcastic" and "aggressive" ( where? how? ) whilst you ignore the circumstances and backstory. Believe me, I'm intending to be adequately polite and restrained. There are no members of this forum who are beyond reproach. No holy cows. What's this "behind the safety of a computer screen" stuff? I'll stand by what I say and how I say it in front of ANYBODY on this forum face-to-face, you included. That's because I believe I'm being reasonable, sufficiently respectful and as accurate I can be in what I write. If you think I'm just some kind of keyboard warrior then that's your choice, but I would have hoped you'd seen enough of me on this forum by now to understand that, with me, what you see is pretty much what you get. And thanks for reminding me that I'm "...in Europe...". Alan T.

No, sorry. I don't accept that accusation. If you think I'm being "condescending", "rude" and "nasty" then I direct you to the emoticon at the end of my last post. Although I guess you won't see it if you don't want to see it, it was put there for a reason. It's meant to indicate a reasonably friendly tone. I've pointed much of this stuff out to Rick several times before, and the message still doesn't seem to be getting through. I can't discount the possibility that some of what he does is being done on purpose, but I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt. His first post on this forum seemed - to me anyway - to be aimed at ruffling feathers and sticking a flag in some territory. Perhaps you might want to go back and have a look to remind yourself of that time? I wasn't the only one who thought we were being sent up. But up to and including now, I believe I'm being sufficiently polite and respectful. And unlike you, I haven't told anybody to "go away".... This forum is probably one of the best on the web ( in the English language, anyway ) for getting down to the nitty-gritty about these old Japanese cars. It's a shame to see it - after all we've been through - seeming to believe that the story of the "American" market cars is the only story. How can we possibly discuss what turned up in north America, or what was going on in the factory that made these cars, without taking into account everything that was being made there? To talk about batches of HLS30s being painted, whilst ignoring the fact that nearly twice as many Japanese market S30-prefixed and PS30-prefixed cars were going through the very same paint shop at the same time seems positively careless! I suggest that if you've got any further objection to my posts that you simply use the 'IGNORE' function. If you want to take it up personally with me, then send me a PM. As for Rick, I'm rather inclined to believe that he's cool enough to take a little pointed criticism on the chin without even flinching. He might even give a little back, which will be well taken. That's the way we eventually get somewhere with all this.... Alan T.

As in so many of your posts, you seem to completely forget ( or just disregard? ) the fact that variants of S30-series Z other than HLS30s destined for the north American market were being made in Nissan Shatai's Hiratsuka plant ( 'Datsun' never made anything, because it was just a badge ) in 1969. Surely it isn't that difficult for you to imagine Japanese market cars coming through the production system at the same time as your "American" cars? In the 1969 production year over 950 Japanese market cars came down the lines at the Hiratsuka plant. If any of us had been there, I think we couldn't have failed to notice them... I'm sure that Nissan would indeed have made an effort to get a nice variety of colours onto that "first boat out", but they would have been making equal efforts for the cars that didn't need to go on any boat. As colours were painted in batches, it stands to reason that they would not have needed to be divided by market or variant, just as long as the colour was appropriate. In the cases of 905 Red and 918 Orange, they were both offered as colours available from the beginning of production on Japanese home market models - so the colours did exist on early production S30-series Zs. In fact, 918 Orange was seen on the Nissan stand at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show. There doesn't seem to be any reason to suggest that they couldn't have been used on 'HLS30'-prefixed cars right from the beginning of production. I know I've mentioned this to you before ( so I'm probably wasting my time ) but, in discussions of matters historical, your use of "#13", "#210" and "#215" as shorthand is all but meaningless. Those numbers mean almost nothing without their 'Katashiki' prefixes. Perhaps you could add some of the above to your "records"? Alan T.

A bit late ( sorry, didn't see it when you originally posted it ) but this looks like the Hiragana ( simplified Kanji ) symbol 'Chi'. And - in common with some of the other examples - it looks a little bit unnaturally written. Kind of like if it were written by somebody who was stretching his arm up under a dash.... It kind of ties in with previous examples possibly reading as 'Chikara'. Could this Hiragana 'Chi' signify the same thing as the Kanji 'Chikara', but simply abbreviated, and written by a different person and/or at a different time...? If we had enough examples, we might even start to see a pattern emerging.

Yes, it reads as "San-Ju Yon". Literally 'Three Ten four', meaning 'Thirty Four' in English. No idea what it relates to I'm afraid. Like all of these graffitoes, they seem to have meant something only to the guys building up the dashes and the cars......

Carl, I think you have got this N42 and F54 block internals thing the wrong way round.... The N42 block casting ( the earlier of the two ) had more 'meat' between the bores than the F54 block casting that followed it. The F54 block casting had 'siamesed' cooling passages between the bores - ie less 'meat' - which actually makes it less stiff than the N42 casting. When going for maximum bore on an L28 block, the N42 has often been chosen because the extra material in the block casting leaves greater wall thickness, which helps to keep bores round in use. In contrast, the F54 block has often been chosen because people misunderstand what 'siamesed cooling passages' means. They think that they are "stronger", when in fact they simply have better cooling properties. The F54 has less internal structure than the N42. And amongst tuners in Japan, the earliest N42 block castings were always reputed to have 'better' metallurgy than the later F54s. Alan T.

So you could see "3000" in the paint, but not in the metal underneath it? Bizarre. I think it would need a pretty good going over with a DA to completely obliterate it, and it's hard to imagine why it would need so much DA work on firewall sheetmetal once bare metal had been revealed..... Personally speaking, if I saw a car that had had so much work done in that area that the chassis number was illegible, then I'd tend to think the worst. I've seen 2-seater bodies with 2+2 chassis numbers, and late RS30 bodies running on HS30 identities ( there's one such 'shell on eBay UK at the moment ) so they are out there. It only takes two cars to tango. If it was me, I'd have made sure that the number was legible before buying it, and/or before painting it. No really, they were engraved. The slightly haphazard look that the numbers and letters sometimes show is due to the nature of the pantograph-style machine that was used. Nissan Shatai staff confirmed the fact to Kats when he talked to them. It's in the archives here.

Why do you need a picture!? It's on the firewall sheetmetal, just above the master cylinders. RHD and LHD are mirror-images of eachother.....

On the S30/S31 Z' date=' it is [i']always* on the driver's side of the firewall. *Unless it has been removed for some reason.....

An 'RLS30' plate is not going to be any use for an 'RS30' though..... vpulsar, If your car really hasn't got the firewall-engraved chassis number 'stamp' anymore, then there has to be a reason why. Whatever reason it is, it won't be good...... If it's simply covered up with paint, then you should strip the paint back to 'frame' it. If it really isn't there any more, then I bet it isn't the car that your V5C says it is. Can 'O' Worms.....

Possibly referring to the 'Sports Option' wooden gearknob that was described in-period as the 'Rally' gearknob? They were used on the 510, S30, PA10 and BS110 works rally cars, amongst others. Just a thinner and slightly taller wooden knob, with no logo or shift pattern on it. NISMO made a limited-edition reissue for their 15th Anniversary ( part number 32865-A7610-1 ) which sometimes come up on Yahoo Japan auctions. I've got one on my GP Maroon 240ZG, and one on the 432-R replica project car too. Some people don't like them, as they complain that they 'hurt' the palm of their hand. Here's a pic of an original on a works 240Z rally car:

It's certainly nothing to do with the quality of the car. It's a good one. Better if you think of it being for 'personal reasons' rather than anything sinister...... I've driven the car, and can vouch for it. It used to belong to well-known 60s~70s Japanese racing driver Tadashi SAKAI ( I believe he bought it new ), and it was he who had the Weber DCOEs fitted in place of the OEM Mikunis. It's not 100% stock, but it has some nicely sympathetic 'period' feel modifications. Alan T.