HS30-H

Certainly not a conventional dry sump pan with that depth..... and it has no 'trap door' sections like you'd see on a race-oriented wet sump with that amount of capacity. Marine application, possibly?

This could be fun. You've certainly got me scratching my head. I can't think of anything that could be so light at 4-off, and also make the car faster. Parts in multiples of four make me think of corners of the car ( wheels, brakes, suspension components? ) rather than anything engine related. What on earth can be so light and have a noticeable effect on speed? I'm stumped. I can think of a few silly-price candidates in the Price-per-Pound question though - even if I might have to go metric on weight. NOS Stopwatch Clock oscillator units, PZ tachometers and factory Sports Option 'Mach' steering wheels are all fairly light, but change hands for alarming amounts of money. This could go anywhere.....

"I'm not going to argue unless you pay......." But seriously, it is a pretty lofty claim isn't it? Might be safer to take a leaf out of Carlsberg's book, and add "Probably......." In other news, the small island of Fraggle Rock has just had a cultural boost with the opening of it's new 'Charles D!ckens Heritage Library'. However, amongst the praise and fanfares a small voice of concern was heard. How come the library consisted of just twelve copies of Oliver Twist, and one of Pickwick Papers...........? :classic:

No disrespect, but how would you even begin to justify such a lofty claim? And surely "nicest" is such a subjective term as to be almost meaningless in this context?

You should have consulted a Kindergarten teacher. Then you would have got the right answer.

Hey, that's really creative! You should be in the business of making films about the "Dartsun Zee Car" for the Schmistory Channel. Oh I'm sure Ms. Gable was present when 'Pinin' Farina and Katayama were talking about the S30-series Z, but - let's make no mistake about this - the shape of the car was the work of Yoshihiko Matsuo and his team in Japan. It didn't come out of Katayama's office, and Pininfarina had nothing to do with it ( apart, of course, from being one of Matsuo and his team's many subliminal influences and inspirations ). If she's referring specifically to the front-end treatment of the 240ZG model ( and the parts therein ) and therefore after the basic S30-series front end had been penned and produced, then that would be erroneous too. Matsuo himself penned the design of the ZG front end - initially in response to requests from Nissan's race department - due to the necessity of homologating such a model. It had nothing to do with Katayama, or Pininfarina. I've talked with Matsuo at length about this, so I have it from a good source. With all due respect to Ms Gable, I think she is misunderstanding the significance of what she witnessed. I can't recall where I heard it, but I remember hearing ( and being very surprised ) that Ms. Gable had absolutely no idea whom Yoshihiko Matsuo was until at least the 1990s, and that she originally believed Katayama had "designed the 240Z"...........

Ah, the Katayama "...personally chiselled them off....." Fairlady emblem story, and the Johnnie Gable "..... I was there when they were designing it....." Katayama & 'Pinin' Farina story. Aaaaaaaaargh :ogre:

conedodger, You seem to be determined to carry this on, and you appear to be focussed more on this question of who is - or is not - being "rude" than on understanding the real problem ( bad data ). Perhaps you might find a little enlightenment if you spent some time looking at the archives here, with the emphasis on exchanges that have been taking place since around 2002 ( six years or so before you joined ). I don't think you'll make a very good referee for a virtual boxing match if you only get into the ring in the eleventh round. Let me remind you that you brought the question of my nationality up, sir. Only you will really know your intentions in doing so. But having brought that subject up, you now question its relevance? Where exactly were you trying to go with that? If you don't see it now then I don't know how I can make it any more clear to you. The data on the zhome.com page in question was plain wrong. The author ignores queries as to its accuracy, and instead calls into question the accuracy of a website that is far more specialised in the subject than his own. Then the data on zhome.com is "updated" - but it is still misleading. Call this to the author's attention and people seem more interested in questioning the intentions of the person bringing the matter up than in making sure the data is correct and reliable. Why is "it" so important to me? Are you kidding? You mention that you work in "Academia" ( congratulations ) and then you want me to explain to you why accurate and reliable data is important........? Quite extraordinary.

'conedodger', Thanks for your advice. Nice of "Academia" to come and pay me a personal visit, and useful to know that "....the English argue differently" when posting on what is actually an international forum. I'm afraid I shall be sticking with my opinion ( obviously differing from yours ), and I think that's healthy as far as this forum goes. Otherwise we might as well rename it the 'Carl Beck Fan Club' and let it become the replacement for his dearly departed Mailing List, in which he was able to edit all posts before they even hit the screen. I see you are damning the racingsportscars.com site too. Quite extraordinary. You and Mr B. could be two peas in a pod. If the data on the ex-Speakman car at zhome.com was originally right, then why has it now been "updated"? And if what is written on that page now ( implying that the Doyle, Speakman & Maffucci 16th O/A finish in 1978 was the first finish for a 240Z at the Daytona 24hrs ) is correct, then please post your evidence to prove that the other cars we have mentioned don't count. And if you have any other 'advice' for me on how to deal with your friends, then please send it to me by PM. Thanks.

It has already been pointed out that there were 240Zs that finished the race in 1975 ( the Mabrito & Steel car in a pretty good 26th O/A and 8th in GT-U at 420 laps, and the Buzbee, Ross & Frates car 32nd O/A and 9th in GT-U), and 1976 ( Frates, Ross & Buzbee again at 38th O/A and 15th in GTU at 274 laps, whilst Mabrito & Steel got a DNF with 47th O/A, 18th in GTU and 185 laps ). So why does the zhome.com page on the ex-Speakman car read that it ".... was the first Datsun 240Z to finish the 24 Hours of Daytona....."? At the very least this is misleading, and fairly disrespectful of the efforts of the '75 and '76 entrants - which were arguably blazing a trail for others to follow. That 16th place O/A in 1978 was a fine achievement, but surely everybody can see that the zhome.com page is now worded misleadingly after previously simply being........ wrong? Well, respect is a two-way street, isn't it? I think I'm giving around the same amount of respect as I'm being given, to be honest. It's not a two-way dialogue, is it? Unless you spotted a post that I can't see? Further back in this thread you'll see Carl Beck calling into question the data published on racingsportscars.com ( a well-researched and well-respected site ) when it is his own site that carries the errors in question. That page in question wrong for over seven years - misleading people that I have personally had to correct - and then it is "updated" rather than simply being corrected....... I guess you must see it all quite differently.

Would it help if somebody explained it to you?

Page "Updated 28 Feb. 2009", and reads: "In 1978, Bob Speakman's Z was the first Datsun 240Z to finish the 24 Hours of Daytona, finishing 16th over-all and 4th in the GT-U Class." So it's still wrong.....

Are you missing the point again? On this page: http://www2.zhome.com:81/History/Bork.htm It says: "In 1975, Bob Speakman's Z was the first Datsun 240Z to finish the 24 Hours of Daytona, finishing 4th over-all." ........which is wrong. And why do you keep calling him "Speckman"?

Are you seriously questioning the data at racingsportscars.com? That's a very well known and respected site, and I think the data there is very much more likely to be right than something that you added to your site because somebody might have given it to you "....off the top of his head."

It's fairly easy to get pads for the vented rotor version of the MK63 in Japan ( Rubber Soul, Victory 50, Kameari, PitRoad, RS Start and others all stock them), but the solid disc non-vented type - a different pad shape - are more difficult. You might try asking for 41060-RS610 with an Australian NISMO dealer ( that's a NISMO part number for the M59S friction material version of the non-vented MK63 ) but it's likely they will have to import them specially. I use ENDLESS pads on my MK63s ( three cars ) and they are really good, but I don't believe they have a 'stock' pad for the non-vented version and they would likely need to be made to special order. Using the pad dimensions in the diagrams below, you might like to try asking an Australian brake specialist if they have anything close. I seem to remember that there is a UK Ford caliper ( 3 litre Capri and Granada? ) that used similar pads that can be modified to suit.....

That would be because businesses and service providers in Japan - generally speaking - don't need to be told these kinds of things. First of all they are common sense, and secondly the philosophy already exists. I was reminded of this quite bluntly when I arrived back at London Heathrow airport after flying back from Japan last week......... Katayama san may well have pushed this 'philosophy' for the north American market operation of the company that employed him, but I believe the philosophy - not to mention the major part of the business model - was pioneered in the north American market by Dr Karl Hahn, working as the boss of Volkswagen of America ( set up in 1955 ) from 1958 onwards. Hahn appointed D.D.B. as Volkswagen's advertising company for the USA market, which led to a revolution in the advertising world just as much as a revolution in the way that small, economical but good quality foreign cars were sold in north America. Katayama and his colleagues would have been well aware of the way that VWoA was set up, and their business model and selling strategy. It was a trail that had already been marked for them......

You make them sound positively poisonous.........! Any specific reasons for that, apart from the obvious worries about RHD-specific parts supply?

Logging in from a very snowy Sapporo here ( Happy New Year all )........ I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this particular set of wheels may well be a fair bit younger than the vendor realises....... First thing I want to point out is the lack of a cast-in panel on the flat section of the hub area just outside the wheel bolt holes. On the original Kobe Seiko wheels that were fitted as OEM equipment on the Fairlady Z432 models this cast-in panel would have carried some dating numbers. I'm far far away from my home computer at the moment so I can't provide example pics, but the lack of such a panel on these wheels perhaps points to them being somewhat later than the 69~73 period of manufacture. On the other hand, the panel is a bit of an eyesore on such a clean wheel design, and I have seen examples where it was machined off completely. The other exception are the wheels that were used by Nissan's works rally team as front pairs in snow rallies ( the only time when the Kobe Seiko works 'Rally' mags - which were a different, but similar casting to the "432" mags, and which usually came in 6j and 7j x 14 rather than the 5.5j x 14 of the "432" mags - were seen being mixed with the "432" mags on the same cars..... ) but these were a different casting again - having no facility for the centre cap - and would be extremely unlikely to turn up in such good condition. Kobe Seiko did actually sell this design of wheel well into the late Seventies, calling them 'MAGLLOY', but with a slightly modified casting pattern and very noticeable lettering cast into the outer rim area. I've seen a couple of sets of these with the lettering machined off, being sold as "432" mags.... Some years ago now there were a couple of batches of replicas made in Japan, in both magnesium and aluminium, and in both the "432" style and the works "Rally" mag design. These were made without the cast-in number panel too. There are a few sets of these fitted to concours-level 432s in Japan, and I would not rule out the possibility that this set could be from that kind of source. Lovely wheels, and they usually change hands for pretty healthy sums - whether replicas or not. Hope this set ends up on a car that will show them off to their full effect! Cheers, Alan T.

Filipe, I'll try to answer some of your questions as best I can, but to be honest you stand a far better chance of getting closer to the full story yourself if you research it locally. I think if you are persistent with former ( and current? ) employees of Entreposto, you may well find out exactly what happened, and why........ But here are my shots anyway: 1. There's always the chance that minor differences in specs were due to Force Majeure rather than any kind of strictly-enforced plan. My guess is that the lighting differences in the Portuguese cars could well have been due to lack of certain parts being ready in time for shipment schedule, or even simple mistakes. I can imagine that the 'Option' clear indicator lenses might well have been in short supply at certain times if they were made in the same injection moulds as the amber units. 2. No idea on dates specific to the Portuguese cars I'm afraid, and the 'R-DRIVE' parts catalogs ( which - strangely - supposedly cover all the UK, Australian & 'European' market cars ) do not mention an 'Applied From' date for the clear indicator lenses. However, they do give the following: *26120-E4300 ASSY-LAMP PARKING RH UNCOLOR, OP, UP TO 07-73. *26125-E4300 ASSY-LAMP PARKING LH UNCOLOR, OP, UP TO 07-73. There are also separate part numbers for the 'Uncolor' ( clear ) lenses on their own, and these too mention that they are 'OP' ( optional ) parts. 3. I don't know about anybody else, but to me the Portuguese market cars have always seemed to be something of a cut above most other LHD and RHD 'Export' models of S30-series Z. I think Entreposto - with their strong ties to Nissan, and their foothold in some of the emerging African markets which were so important to Nissan - made sure that the HLS30s they imported were well worth what their customers were being asked to pay. They knew what was available parts-wise in Japan, and they added quite a lot to the cars to make them a little bit more special. I'm quite sure that these cars were manufactured expressly for Entreposto and the Portuguese market, and I would have thought - this just a guess - that they entered Europe via car carrier ships that stopped in north Africa or Portugal itself rather than en-route to the normal European ports in Holland, Belgium and UK. If you want to get deeper into this Filipe, you have a good opportunity and every possibility to find answers to your questions locally. One of the people you might try asking is Mr Jose Megre, as I know he was well connected at Nissan during the period we are talking about and he might be able to tell you some interesting stories. Did you find that your car had any special hand-written markings on it when you originally took it apart? I'm particularly interested to know what - if anything - was chalked onto the underside of the glovebox lining, or written on the steering column support bracket. Did you find anything? The topic of the Portuguese market cars would justify a thread of it's own. Alan T.

Hi Kats, Is the gentleman you mention Mr Michio TAKEI? I am certainly looking forward to your posts. One of the problems that caused unexpected delays was in connection with European lighting regulations. The front turn signals / sidelights of the first two HS30s imported to the UK were found to be lower than the new regulations allowed, and Nissan were forced to reposition the indicator lamp units from another model onto the top of the front bumper for subsequent imports - which would have left a hole in the quarter valances. New - blanked off - quarter valances had to be designed and manufactured. The headlamps too were found to be illegal, and new units incorporating a 'side-light' bulb - and the wiring to suit - had to be fitted. I have been told that communication problems between the UK franchise holders 'Datsun UK Ltd' and Nissan in Japan were at least partly to blame for the mistakes........ Alan T.

What a lovely honest car. Love it! Congrats.

Yes, I agree that the slots are different sizes. The overall design is - perhaps almost remarkably - similar though, don't you think? If a designer had been given a clean sheet of paper on which to design a hubcap for a range of variants in a new model series of cars that would be making a public debut in late 1969, I would have expected him to come up with something that looked - can we say - perhaps a little more different from the '68 Laurel and early '69 Skyline hubcaps? Instead, the cars ended up with with something very similar, also made by IKI. Is that a fair comment, do you think? My point being that - with all the cost constraints, and necessity to keep things simple - I think the cars ended up with what is essentially a modified version of an IKI hubcap that already existed....... It was Matsuo san himself who planted the seeds of all this in my mind in the first place! I was discussing the question of wheels with him ( actually, it started off on a discussion about tyres..... ) and he told me that he really wanted the Z ( meaning all variants, I believe ) to have attractive alloy wheels that were in keeping with the sporty image of the car, but this was stymied due to cost. He told me that he and his team also aimed at a more attractive steel wheel design that did not require a hubcap ( I presume that this would be something along the lines of the four-spoked and multi-hole designs that we can see on some of the clay mockup and prototype photos ) but this too was ruled out. I don't believe that the plain and workmanlike TOPY wheels, covered by the IKI hubcaps, were what he originally had in mind at all. Point of order here if I may; What we are calling the "D caps" ( as seen on the final production Export cars ) are essentially - at least as far as I can see - the same basic pressing as the 'Deluxe' / 'Z-L' model domestic items, but with a different centre 'ornament'. Of course, the domestic ornament did not have a 'D' for Datsun on it - so I find it hard to call the domestic version a 'D' cap. Hope you take the point in the spirit in which it is intended. While I had the scanner fired up and Photoshop running, I'd thought I'd show some comparison shots of hubcaps all in the same place and on the same day, with the possibility that they could be considered as further food for thought. In this particular case the place is the October 1969 Tokyo Auto Show, and the cars are, from the left: *C10-series Skyline 1800DX *C30-series Laurel 'D' *C10-series Skyline 2000GT *S30-series "Fairlady Z Export Version" Datsun 240Z *S30-series Fairlady Z-L

Pics as supporting evidence. From the left: *C30-series Laurel - 1800 DX model - October 1968 *C30-series Laurel - 2000DX model - February 1969 *C10-series Skyline - 2000GT 4-door model - February 1969 *C10-series Skyline - 2000GT-X model - February 1970 I'd say that the pressing itself looks pretty much the same all the way through the late '68 through early 1970 period, with the difference being in paint finish / accenting, and of course the different centre emblems. On the '69 Tokyo show stand, you can see that the hubcaps of the Fairlady Z-L model and what they were calling the 'Fairlady Z Export Model' look to be exactly the same, with the exception of the centre emblems. The tyre valve hole is adjacent to a spoke in both.

I'd like to be able to help you, but your request is something of a "how long is a piece of string" question....... There are many factors that will get in the way of simple, straight measurements - such as original manufacturer ( mine are factory-made and factory-fitment, but what you source might be a copy, a copy of a copy, or a copy of a copy of a copy...... ) and also fitment position - which is variable. And measuring "level to the ground" is another variable that depends on the ride height of the car being measured. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to talk to your eventual chosen vendor ( especially in the case of the "Super ZG" overfenders - which are not a factory item and therefore could be any size ) and see if they can give you some dimensions that you can work from. Failing that, stump up and buy some - and if they don't work, or can't be made to work by modifying them, then sell 'em. You'll lose a little, but it might be worth trying. Cheers, Alan T.

Carl, Gosh, did I hurt your feelings? Sorry about that. Somewhere back in my formative internet forum days I received some very good advice. "Grow a skin!" I was told. As far as my exchanges with you go, I believe you get as good as you give. Along with the fawning and sycophantic comments from your fans you have to expect the odd barbed arrow now and then. And after all these years, yes - I'm still trying to correct you on stuff that we've been through what seems like a hundred times. I've tried polite ( still trying, actually ) but it seems less than effective in your case. If you don't want to be corrected, then don't make the ( deliberate? ) mistakes in the first place. That's really all this is about anyway. Demean others? Huh? Listen Carl, if anyone wants to "write and publish articles" they had better make sure that they are properly researched and well written. I'm still learning about these cars we discuss here - how about you? Judging by your apparent avoidance of any Japanese-sourced information - except perhaps from Kats, whose careful and interesting research has been such a great source of discussion and learning for us all on this forum - and your positive denial of first-hand stories from some of the main protagonists ( look at your performance on that L-series valve cover / engine design thread, where you rudely brushed off the words of the very man who designed the damned things and chose to believe a American advertising slogan instead ) you seem to think you have everything you need. This while you famously - and laughably - dismiss half the story of these cars as "irrelevant". And yet zhome.com is full of mistakes, personal opinion presented as fact and advertising copy promoted to the level of biblical truth. When plain, factual errors are brought to your attention nothing seems to happen. Just last week I was on another forum when a piece of zhome.com 'truthiness' was presented as impressive proof of a particular car's race history, when in fact it was embarrassingly wrong. Wrong year, wrong classification, wrong result. But strangley, painting the result as better than it really was ( funny that ). It's been up there like that for years, misleading and misinforming all that read it. About as useful as a typhoid-infected well. For heaven's sake man, WAKE UP!. These are Japanese cars we are discussing here. You seem to somehow fear and deny this, and that crass quote you so often wheel out ( "An American Car, Made in Japan" ) serves only to make you feel less guilty, and others to be misled. My pointers toward the Japanese side of the story will always be dwarfed by your efforts to persuade everyone that they should ignore it. Meeeeowwww! Never mind my Japanese, it looks like you are still struggling with English......... The difference between you and I is that I positively seek out all data and history on the subjects that I am interested in, and I realise and accept that - for the story surrounding a Japanese car - much of this is going to be written or recorded in Japanese. That presents a challenge of course, but at least I'm looking. Would you prefer to believe that understanding ancient Egypt did not require the transliteration of hieroglyphics, or would you strive like Champollion, Akerblad and Young to found out what they actually said? You confuse the message with the medium. If I respond to your mistakes and bad information in a way that you take exception to ( yes, look at THIS THREAD for example ) then take more care to get it right in future. If you don't make the mistakes then I'll have nothing to pick you up on, and we'll all be happy and better informed. You respond to my points of correction in this thread by completely ignoring the points that have been made, and going off on a tangent. But Carl, it's not me that you need to defend yourself from. All you need to do is broaden your view to include the things that you have sa far taken great pains to ignore, and to accept that the Japanese market cars - and all the other Export market cars - are just as much a part of the story of 'your' cars as anything else. That's not my truth, it belongs to all of us who share an interest in the concept, design, engineering and production of these cars. moonpup = Beck lapdog. Characteristic brown nose Respectfully, yours etc. Alan T.