HS30-H

I often find that there are never enough hangers in the closet when I check into a hotel.......

But what? Walter, I'm quite sure the truth of the matter is that we are very likely to see eye-to-eye on many more things than we don't. Maybe that doesn't fit the 'script', but I'll bet it's true...... I look forward to it. Fingers crossed. Thanks for being receptive to my query on this. To my eyes, the first version of the thread did read like classic 'advertorial', but without the 'advert' that would justify (and pay for ) the 'editorial'.......

I take your point, but this is just one of what seems like several BRE-related posts that - basically - have been linked to something that BRE are selling. Posters, photos, that kind of stuff. It has been starting to look to me like BRE have been getting quite a bit of subliminal advertising on the forum, and it's much more than people just discussing / comparing the product. It seems a little out of proportion in comparison to other suppliers, and its relevance in the 'Z History' forum seems extremely tenuous to me. Considering that BRE control the use of their logo and ( even ) their 'trademark' paint schemes - and charge people for the right to use them - I think a little bit of what's good for Paul is good for Peter too....., no? So am I.

Will, How about putting it in the 'Chit Chat' forums after BRE pay for a banner ad? MSA pay for a banner ad here, and they sell car covers too. If I were MSA I would not be amused to see BRE's car covers getting a free endorsement and their own thread here. BRE are a commercial enterprise, after all.

What's this doing in the 'Z Car History Forum'? If BRE have something to sell, they should sell it in the Classifieds section just like everyone else. If they want a bit more exposure, they can contact Admin to negotiate a banner ad at a suitable fee, I'm sure.

Needs to be an early L20A, and ( possibly ) an FS5C71-A....... It's a nice gesture, but I don't think these are going to be a problem to find in Japan.

Yes, thanks Mike - I saw where the text came from. The point I'm trying to make is that it is being repeated as though it actually means something..... I'm pretty sure it doesn't....!

Sorry, I don't know very much about the 'ZZZap' or 'Black Pearl' special editions at all. And what little I do know about them has been gleaned from previous posts on this forum. My impression is that there seems to be a lot of difficulty in authenticating genuine examples of both, so judging them in car shows must be a little tricky? Glad to hear you have a new source for Japanese literature. Volume 2 of 'Showa Motors' ( NEWs Publishing, ISBN978-4-89107-581-1 ) has that three page article on the modified VZ car in Japan, and also a nice interview with Matsuo san. Recommended. Whilst teacher is away, can I ask you to have a stab at explaining what this might mean: .....especially those bits about "...the first....", "...the second..." and "...the third...". You can tell he used to sell cars for a living, can't you?

Or even an English correction. That'll be 'you're' and 'invasion'. Feel free to make a note of them for the next time you want to take a shot at the correct use of the English language.

Sorry for my late reply to this. I forgot all about it. You should be able to see the dated quality control stamp ( 'hanko' or 'ken' ) on one of the originals. It's on the gold passivate coloured part of the mechanism that you can't see when the wheel is in situ. They were made by 'Izumi' - the same company that made the original steering wheels for the cars - so the dated stamp is in the same place as you see it on the stock S30 steering wheels. Actually, I'll have to look at my NISMO 10th Anniversary reissue and see if it too has a dated stamp. I can't recall off the top of my head whether it did or not...... But anyway, I think a genuine early wheel that has 'had a life' will certainly show some patina. They go smooth and shiny with use, whilst sweat and strong sunlight attacks the soft urethane. In extreme cases they shrink and crack. A 10th Anniversary reissue is already fairly old, but it would have to have led a hard life to show the kind of patina that an original would get from even normal use.

Well, first of all I would have great trouble in believing that it was an intentional tip of the hat to Nissan's works race cars. But secondly - and probably more importantly - it was originally a designation applied by Nissan themselves, and therefore is not something that a private owner, a restoration 'shop or anyone else can apply to a car at their whim. We simply cannot change the factory designations of these cars. I can't imagine somebody could do this with something like the Corvette 'Gran Sport' name, and get away with it without having at least a few choice words bounced off their skulls. Of course, the 'Z Community' ( whatever that is ) hardly ever have their radar switched on - so an equivalent malapropism passes unnoticed..........

'240ZR' was a factory ( Nissan ) designation for some of its works race cars in Japan. It seems unlikely that the people who used this moniker for the yellow VZ car would have known that, so they would also be unlikely to understand how inappropriate it seems for this car. Thanks for the reminder of the Evanow book. I just dipped back into it for the "240ZR" / "240Z-R" mentions. I'd almost forgotten just how much of a shambles that book was.

Q.E.D.

Well, zbane's excellent post already made the point I think. But just to reinforce it, I'll add a couple of pics to illustrate. Please don't take this as anything other than a well-intentioned bit of signposting. Nobody's out to 'break a butterfly on a wheel' here. 'NISSAN' logos on Japanese race cars, and a factory 'Honda NSX' race car in the Honda Museum - as used by Team Kunimitsu at the Le Mans 24hrs:

Beat my guest

It's been 'period correct' since about 1934. Nissan built it, after all.

Hey - look at that! Checking again today I see "5th update 19 April 2009", and Herrmann and Schuller's names spelled correctly all the way through. Great! We are actually getting somewhere. Unfortunately we still have a little work to do on the same page, so - firing up the old Ouija board again - let's see if we can get these fixed: "Toni Fall" = Tony ( Anthony ) Fall ( spelled correctly elsewhere on the same page ). "Shekhar Metha" = Shekhar Mehta ( spelled correctly elsewhere on the same page ). "Paul Ester" = Paul Easter ( spelled correctly elsewhere on the same page ). "Jean Todd" = Jean Todt. Oh, and Fall & Easter's '73 Monte Carlo car was registered 'TKS 33 SA 8514' not "TKS33 8514". OK - I won't make any 'Fifth Amendment" jokes...... Keep up the good work Alan T.

Checking again today, I see that the zhome.com page I referred to above ( www.zhome.com/History/rally.htm ) lists a "4th update 17 April 2009", but the names of Herrmann and Schuller are still misspelled in the text, thus: "The driving team of Edgar Hermann / Hans Shuller also became the first team to win back to back over-all victories!" ......so their names are now spelled both correctly and incorrectly on the same page. Some of the other crew names need correcting too. And Carl, your silence on this speaks volumes. I'm deducing that you supplied the information to Sports Car Digest, and that Sports Car Digest are not replying to my queries on their Amelia Island report page for this reason? I'm going to have to contact SCD's editors by direct e-mail, aren't I? Alan T.

Ha ha! They've corrected the spellings without acknowledging the original error, or the fact that it was pointed out to them. What a coincidence that the two names are still misspelled ( and with exactly the same misspelling ) over at zhome.com, so it's obvious where SCD got their misinformation from. Talking of misinformation, the official BRE site ( bre2.net ) quotes the BRE 'Baja' 240Z as having taken part in the "1970 Baja 1000". Whoops History. It's just one damned thing after another, isn't it?

Carl, Have you been comparing your car to a Works rally 240Z, or did the writer of that article make that bit up all by himself? I can't imagine how he could come up with the idea that your BRE car "...is similar to the Nissan factory works FIA Pro-Rally cars that ran the East African Safari Rally". It seems a completely bizarre comparison to me. They really don't have much in common at all, do they? And they didn't even spell poor Herrmann and Schuller's names correctly! Alan T.

Well "Dogleg First" makes sense to me anyway. At least it's universal, and describes something physical - something mechanical. Interestingly, the Japanese usually call this shift pattern "Low Back" - which also makes descriptive sense. I never heard that described as a "Euro" shift pattern before that's all. A matter of perspective, then. Thanks for the explanation. :classic:

What's a "Euro shift pattern"? Does it have a moustache, and speak with a funny accent?

Quite simply, the original question has already been answered. Everything else is just an unexpected bonus. Actually, all this "history garbage" makes this forum a better place in my opinion. Certainly a more valuable - and interesting - resource than a site largely written by one man, with no platform for real-time questioning, debate or final consensus. I think we all can learn something if we choose to take the time to read between the lines and sort out the signal from the noise. It's not difficult really. And if you don't like it, the IGNORE function is at your disposal. Arne, last time I remember looking ( admittedly a while ago now ) your profile listed you as a 'Super Moderator' ( whatever that is ), so perhaps you have the power to move this 'discussion' to a more suitable venue on the forum? You might also choose to delete the whole thing of course, which would be an interesting choice, but perhaps to be expected from somebody who refers to "history garbage"........ I'm always mindful that - as the immortal 'Yogi' Berra might have said - "It is difficult to write about history, especially when it is in the past". Don't underestimate the effort it takes to come up with that sh*t. Cordial regards, Alan T.

Erick, Sorry that your thread has been somewhat diverted, but you inadvertently brought up a topic that some of us ( or myself at least ) feel quite strongly about. Still, I hope that some of your questions have already been answered. This sounds like an L20A engine ( L20A was 6 cylinder, and L20B was four cylinder ) and in actual fact the early versions of this with the E30 cylinder head - which you appear to have - are actually very nice engines when they are running to their full potential. If you rebuild it to even stock specifications it is quite powerful for its capacity. Luckily for you Erick, all the bearings ( con rod and main bearings ) and most other service parts on the bottom half of the engine are the same as those fitted to Nissan's L24, L26 and L28 engines for Export markets. Therefore Rock Auto should actually stock suitable bearings for the engine, but you will have to ask for L24/L26/L28 parts if they do not recognise the L20 for what it is. If your local suppliers cannot help, then maybe ordering from the nearest alternative ( USA? ) will work? If you want to send me a PM I will tell you the Nissan part numbers that you need, and can help you with any other data that you might need for your L20 six. It's a good engine, and can be very sweet when it is working right. Good luck! Alan T.

Again, you're reading what you want to hear into this. The article makes the point that the four-cylinder versions of the engine design had the benefit of the increased lead time in their production use, and that they were therefore able to benefit from the refinements and changes that had been being made on the L20 six. If that isn't a clear example of later engines inheriting designs and refinements from earlier engines then I don't know what is. There's a smooth transition here - not any Year Zero type 'Now' with no 'Then'...... You're drawing that line again just to fit in with your Katayama quote, aren't you? You portray the L20A as having been "based on the L16" ( once again noting that you ignore the L13 and L14 ) when in fact they were developed at the same time! The L20A, L13, L14, L16 etc etc were part of the module for heaven's sake. I mean, where does this conviction of yours that the L16 is some new Cain come from? Do you honestly believe that these people were drawing up one capacity of engine at a time, and then realising - perhaps over lunch? - that they needed a few more different capacities? Come on, that's just stupid. No, sorry. You are putting words in his mouth. Where ( in the original Japanese article ) does it say that Iida san considered that the L20A was a design "based on the L16"? Again, the whole point is the L16 ( and the L20A ) are logical parts of the L-gata module which were designed at the same time. Where in the original Japanese text does it say that the L16 ( again - on it's own? ) was designed by the "First Engine Design Division" ( Engine Design Team 1 )? It is just common sense that the 'L-Gata' engine module would have been a collaborative effort between the two departments, and as Iida san was Chief of the 'L-Gata' module design team it is logical that he would have overseen both the four and six cylinder versions of the module. Unless you think that these two teams were in some kind of competition with eachother, and that Nissan would think it sensible for two teams working on different versions of the same core design to ignore eachother even when their projects were going to be made in the same foundries and assembly plants? You might like to note that the mention of the two engine design departments was made at the beginning of the article, and when Iida and his team was given the brief to start work on the new L20 six. I don't see any mention of division of responsibility when it came to fours and sixes in the L-gata module. Again, no. Iida san moved over to Engine Design Team no.1 in 1968, after the newer L-gata module engines were signed off for production. There he was given the job of developing the A-series engine range ( the A10 already existed ) with particular emphasis on the A12 and the A15, and stayed with that up until 1972. He continued to work for Nissan's engine division until 1988, when he was sent to work at Aichi Kikai Kogyo. He retired in 1999. Once again I question both your commissioned translation and your apparent understanding of it. The point being made about 'fours into sixes' was just to demonstrate that all of Iida's team's equipment and data up to the point where they started work on the new L20 six related to four cylinder engines. They simply had not designed any passenger car sixes up to that point - therefore everything that they based their work on was naturally biased to the previous four-cylinder work they had done. This is not the same as saying that they simply "added two cylinders" onto a four-cylinder engine and - hey presto - had a six. You missed the point, again. Hmmm, I think you might be swimming in waters that are a bit deeper than you normally venture into. Japanese domestic model variants are certainly not one of your specialist subjects, are they? I think you might want to have a little bit more reference material behind you before you go into too much depth about what was released, and when - let alone what that is meant to signify. After all, I don't think anybody is trying to tell you that one particular engine capacity variant of Nissan's L-gata module is 'Uber Alles' - despite the fact that you seem to be fixated with just the L16 and L24......... Sorry, but to me this seems to be unintentionally ironic - particularly considering your own very obvious misinterpretation of the content ( as detailed above ). You appear to believe that you yourself are immune to misinterpretation and self-obfuscation? I wish I was that confident. I don't think you are in any position to be deciding how accurate - or inaccurate - was Manabu Komano's understanding of Iida san's story. The translation that you have commissioned - and linked to - is NOT a full and accurate translation of the Nostalgic Hero article ( I'd call it more of a precis, as large sections of the original text are absent ) and your dissection of that commissioned translation is flawed because you bring your own preconceptions to it - especially your belief that the L16/L24 were some kind of genesis that everything else was based on, which appears nowhere in this article and is particularly arcane when one considers that the whole article and story is one of an engine family, and where that family's roots were. What a waste. You get access to a story from as close as possible to the horse's mouth ( unless you get on a plane and seek out Iida san himself, and interview him in English ) and you only want to read into it what you already think you know, whilst you seem to damn the journalist who chased the story up with faint praise or none at all. You might as well have ignored it, and continued to spread the story that the L16 and L24 in their 'Export' configurations were what was driving Nissan's engine developments, and that all else was secondary to that. For the record, nobody is telling you that any particular engine was 'superior' or that any other random measure of perceived status trumps another - just that there was a single engine design brief from which a bigger story, and a bigger family, grew. That they were related ( this is indisputable ), and that to understand and appreciate that makes us all slightly wiser and more roundly educated about our chosen subject ( 'our' cars ), which in itself is a story of family, shared heritage, shared parts and shared dreams. Alan T.