Six_Shooter

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=128025

Am I the only one that thinks it would be easier and probably cheaper, not to mention safer to replace the lines with new ones?

Doubtful. I'm sure I could pull off a complete turbo install on an L24 for MUCH less than $5500, tuned properly, Probably closer to the $1500 mark, $2000 if I have to buy some new parts, who knows, maybe even cheaper, depending on the route that I would want to take, max HP, decent driveabilty or some where in between. Hell I'm thinking about doing it on my '73 for this summer (when I get it), I just have to decide if it's worth the effort to mess around with the L24 that's in it now, or just wait and put the effort into the planned engine upgrade with a pair of turbos. I have a turbo from a 6.5L diesel that's just begging to be used. That may be true, but there is work that can be done to the block to strengthen it. I haven't found an engine that can't handle 8 to 10 PSIG tuned properly, not one. Most people will be happy with even 4 PSIG for a while, but there's always the more bug. Turbocharging an engine be it single or twin is not that difficult, and doesn't have to be expensive when planned out well.

I think it still is, but the paint will probably be one of the cheaper parts of this car once it's built the way I want (if I don't go the restoration route), so price isn't a consideration when it comes to colour selection.

I'd really like to know where this "8 PSI" myth was started from, because its just that a "myth". I've seen plenty of engines, not the L24 specifically, but many others, with proper tuning run fine with 10, 12 even 15 PSIG of boost pressure. On the flip side I've seen engines with much less boost blow up due to poor tuning. Building this set-up can be done for MUCH less than the $5500 price tag of a different engine and install. I've built an engine AND turbocharged it for $2200 CDN (at the time that would have been about $1300 USD), including a new 3 core rad, and some other supporting changes. This engine, with no tuning produced 218 HP and 270 Ft/Lbs at the rear wheels through a manual tranny and 3.73 open diff. With proper tuning it would have been closer to 300 HP at the wheels. If I knew then what I know now I would have been able to make more power. The most "crazy tool" that is needed is a welder, doesn't even have to be a 'fancy TIG' welder it can be a MIG welder, hell I've seen some people use flux core wire to build turbo systems. Some people use a cheap flux core welder to tack it all together and then have it professionally welded. Planned out well this can be done for a decent price, planned poorly and it can costs a lot more.

I showed the GF earlier, and she really likes the green. ARG! that doesn't help the decision at all! ::

Wow, lots of misinformation and skewed thoughts on twin turbo systems. For starters some lingo: "Twin turbo", is exactly that, two IDENTICAL turbos, so you can't have a "Sequential twin turbo", that if anything would be a dual turbo, or better yet simply called a Sequential turbo system. Some technical: With a twin turbo set-up both turbo produce the EXACT SAME BOOST PRESSURE, EXACT SAME. What is split between the turbos is the flow, so each flow at half the CFM, of what one larger turbo would flow. Turbochargers are simply compressors, driven by exhaust through a turbine, but are nothing more than simple centrifigal compressors. Just like running a pair of shop compressors, into one tank, or system, both need to build the same pressure, what doubles is the flow. The difference with shop compressors is that you can run two different sized compressors, due to the use of check valves at the compressor outlet, this keeps the pressurized air from flowing backwards through the compressor. The use of a check valve would be difficult and restrict flow in a performance turbocharger set-up. A TWin turbo system does NOT require the use of split intakes, in fact it is better to use a common plenum, to combine the output of both turbos and be evenly distributed accross all cylinders of the engine. KTM, while it seems that HLS30 has read some things about turbo systems, he doesn't understand them like he should, sorry HLS30, but what you said was also pretty misleading. You have some basic understanding, and will be able to pick more up. Don't worry we were all there at some point. the functionality of a twin turbo system is exactly same regardless of engine configuration, inline, V, flat, radial, it's all the very same principles, just the actual turbo selection will change. Most inline I6 twin turbo systems I have seen will use two seperate manifolds/headers, using 3 cylinders to feed each turbo. There's a few reasons to do this: Packaging. It's much easy to take the front 3 cylinders to one turbo and then the rear 3 cylinders to the second turbo Heat expansion. Like any manifold or header the trubo manifold will expand when it's heated, the difference is that a turbo manifold will usually expand much more due to the higher heat retained in this part of the turbo engine's exhaust system. The turbine itself is a restriction and keeps much of the heat in the header, there is benefits to this, but delves much deeper into turbine theory than we have time for here. With the split manifold, the expansion is shared over fewer cylinders and fastening hardware, reducing overall stress on these parts. If you've ever noticed, good quality headers will usually have the middle port(s) bolt holes as a pretty close fit to the bolt or stud, and as you get farther from the center of the engine, the holes will be slotted wider and wider, this allows for that heat expansion (and cooling contraction). This section could also have "reliability" added to it, as this makes the overall item and system more reliable. Going back to the cold side, there are a few places to combine the compressor outlets. Most commonly on an inline application there will be a Y-pipe or "merge-pipe" used very close to the compressors, and is probably the most efficiant way to do it. This then reduces to one single (larger) pipe running to an IC or directly to the TB. You could also run each compressor outlet to a dual inlet IC, whihc then usually has a single outlet to run to the TB. The third and probably most difficult would be to use dual ICs and combine the outlet from these just before the TB, or if you are using a split plenum, then never merge them, but this seems to be the least traveled path. There are few reasons and benifits to using twin turbo on any engine: Spool up time. Using two turbos with a smaller compressor and turbine wheel will have a lower moment of inertia, and spool up quicker than a larger wheel will. The fact that (usually) only half the exhaust gases are flowing through the turbine can have an effect on this as well. Some people have either built or "know someone" who has built a twin turbo system that didn't perform as expected, only to find out that there was very little planning and an improper selection in parts and/or turbochargers was used. Physical fitment. Even in an inline this can be a benefit. If someone is shooting for a very high horsepower level this will require the use of a larger turbocharger, and one that may not fit in the allotted space, such as between the engine and the struct tower of an S30, also the intake above may be a factor. To get around this, using two smaller turbos that will flow the same but instead of being large in diameter, they fit in the area under the intake, and between engine and frame rail/strut tower, this goes back to packaging. Price may also be a good reason, especially for someone using junkyard parts. It is generally easier to find two small turbos off another application that uses a smaller engine, such as the Sunbird 2.0L, Mitsubishi Eclipse, etc. These cars used turbos that I would consider too small for a single turbo application on an L24, but as twins could be used to make upwards of 400 HP. Weight is only a very small consideration. What I find is that two smaller turbos only might way more than a single larger turbo that would have the same flow. In many cases the weight difference is so small, that not eating that cheeseburger for lunch would have the same effect. If you're serious about turbocharging read these two books: Turbochargers by Hugh MacInnes This is an older book, most of the information is from the '60s and '70s, though there are updates in later printings, and is very technical, hard to read, but once you get it, you get it. Maximum Boost by Corky Bell This is a newer book, first printing in the late '90s IIRC and is geared more towards common enthusiasts that want to understand more, and turbocharge thier rides. The language is much easier to understand than Turbochargers, and has more information to implement in later model cars, such as those with EFI.

I looked it up and the car is 4 and a half hours away from you, I wouldn't ask even somebody I know to make that trek, let alone someone I don't know. I may make the trek out there myself. My uncle wants me to visit him in Calgary and is only 11 hours away at that point. He also wants to buy a quad from WA anyway. I know what you guys are saying, and I agree, but as I said earlier, when that 3rd opinion comes from someone I don't know, it usually is not very helpful. ggarrard; Go on.... If it turns out I should or would rather restore this car, then I may be in the market for the project chassis, but the only parts that can be bad would be the floors, I still need the factory front frame rails and wheel wells in good, if not great shape. The race I want to build this car for requires stock front frame from the firewall forward.

If that's the case, then there is a possibility that this car is in very good condition, considering age, and everything else that goes along with these cars. Jeff G 78; The car is in Washington (state). I know what you're saying, and would like to do something like that, but then there's yet a third opinion in the mix, and I find that the more opinions you get the worse the situation gets. Unless I know that person and know what they call mint, down to poor, then it can only make it more confusing. I had this discussion with the seller in an e-mail actually about how different people have different views of condition, perception. I always expect something to be in worse condition than what I'm being told, even by a third party. Glass half empty? I do this from past experiance. For my use intended use of the car, even if the floors were rotted away, and the rear suspension falling out of the car, it would still be good. Yeah I'm on that other site that seems to be shunned by people here. If the car turns out to be in better shape than I expect, well I may just restore it and find something a little less perfect for the project. The pictures I have been sent are quite detailed, and in the areas I need to be in good shape, really are.

The car is a '73, and is brown. Yeah I know, but that's going to change, no way is it staying brown. So it looks like it was repainted then, must have been a long time ago, because it looks like much of the clear coat has flaked away and not much remains, but the brown paint under it doesn't look to be flaking at all. Just a few small patches of rust, the only one in the usually places is the left dogleg, and that looks to me started from the dent that was formed there, probably from hitting something.

Shooter Finding a 240 that has never been repainted is extremely rare if the finish is in any sort of acceptable condition. Chances are it has been repainted more than once. What color is the Z now? This alone could tell you right off. Apparently you bought the car sight unseen . Did you have it inspected by a disinterested party before purchase? Or did you just go by pictures and descriptions from the seller? Gary Unfortunatly I don't know anyone in the area of the car, the closest people I know to the car are 11 hours away from it, so no, I don't have anyone else to inspect it. I'm thinking I might fly out there myself in about 2 weeks to look at it in person, the money situation might not allow that though. The outside colour and behind the panels colour seem to match perfectly. I realized that it would be pretty rare to find one that has not been re-painted, hense the reason for the thread.

Walter Moore; I found your gallery. I like the colour of your car. I hate these decisions, lime green or bright red?

So that is a one step process, I take it? The reason I ask is because the 240 I'm buying has what looks like flaking clear coat. I've only seen pictures of the car, since it's 3000 miles away from me right now. Just trying to figure out if there was any body work or repaint done at some point, before it gets here. Walter Moore, do you ave any more pics online of your car? I'm trying to decide on the colour to paint mine. At this point, I have it down to a nice bright red or a lime green similar to yours. I keep "reserving" the lime green for a Lotus Esprit, which I'll probably never own anyway, so I'm thinking about using it on my 240, as long as I think it suits it well, just need to see more pics of a lime green 240. Do you have videos of your car on YouTube? I can't imagine there being too many lime green 240s, and found some vids the other night that made me think that the green might be a good way to go.

I searched through a number of threads and couldn't find what I was looking for. I'm curious what type of paint was originally used on the S30s. Base/clear, Acrylic, etc?

I guess I must be one of the few left that knows just how poor a job using fibreglass does to fix structural areas like this. Cutting out and welding is the best and in my opinon only method to repair rust. Anything else should be considered temproary or a band-aid used for a car you don't care about and only has to last a few months, such as a winter beater.

Cut out the bad, and weld in new metal.