Poindexter

"The seller ended this listing early because the item is no longer available for sale."

As I posted before- "quack, quack, waddle, paddle"---ergo it's a duck! Every fact points to the providing of items to either illegally change the identity of a car, or to circumvent various statutes. I wouldn't care if it's the VIN from #0029 or #151,029- wrong is wrong, no need to make it more complicated that that. Besides, VIN versus value is another discussion specifically being waged in another thread. In many states of this country- and I haven't researched exactly how many- this sale is prima facie illegal in and of itself, a "kit" for circumventing the motor vehicle laws. Quack. There must be other legal methods of bringing an undocumented car back from the "dead". I did it, at great expenditure of time and effort- from NY state yet, with an absolutely stifling bureaucracy- so that argument has been squelched. There need not be any mental gymnastics to imagine this potentially ending up badly for someone. These items almost certainly would have been used for some improper- or let's more directly say - illegal purpose. That's not stretching it too far. An artistic wall collage would be nice, but not for $350. I would even like having an art piece with the metal bits- but the paper title pushes it over the edge for me. But even without the title, are there not methods of recreating a title, through rubbings and paperwork? I am not a "tattle-tale" but I have made sure that CarFax has been notified, and that inquiries have been sent out to the FBI and Interpol through various contacts in law enforcement. To a person, they have wholeheartedly agreed with me. These are very complex times, and God knows how these items might have been abused, or by whom later down the line. Perhaps this may be considered by some as excessive. Indeed I feel that to NOT do anything means tacit complicity in this distasteful "scheme", IMHO. I do not seek that somebody be clapped in irons, or put into a dark, dank hole beneath the Bastille, or even punished, but simply that NOBODY in the future in this small world of ours- and specifically the Z Car Community- to which many of us feel attached by means of our deeply-held feelings and appreciation of these wonderful cars, suffer the loss and anguish associated with buying something that ISN'T what they had hoped and paid for. TETS. The line to flame me begins on the left. I can handle it. And excuse my windbaggedness, I just type fast.

Kind of makes one imagine that this kind of ruination almost had to be done on purpose. I mean, does "Fragile" translate into "beat me" in another language? And then to do it again to something made from wood and plywood, it boggles the mind. Damn, it makes me wonder how I can routinely get shipments of delicate tiles and stone slabs from halfway around the world- and safely. (of course it can't be from *more* than halfway around the world, now can it?) What really bothers me the most, I think, is that some driver just tossed it on your porch and just drove away....fast I bet...thinking "maybe he won't notice".

A lot of great information, as usual. I still would be concerned with the small business, or individual seller- as on spree-bay. They can hardly absorb any losses, additional expense or demands on their time. It appears that the process has changed markedly since I last looked at the fine print. That's why I vet my sellers VERY carefully on any worrisome purchase. And now I'll check more carefully on the small print for any shipper I use for incoming items from now on. I've known about the "bad packing" defense- that's why I have always used one of the licensed and bonded packers for any delicate items I'm sending out. Luckily I love driving, so for picking up delicate items, I have been known to drive as far as Boston (from NJ) for something. Well, that was also with gas at $2.39, too. Then I'll always look for a great restaurant or tourist place to make the trip even more fun. Having gotten rid of my 10mpg road-monster, and replacing it with a WVO/diesel-sipping wagon getting 30+ mpg highway, maybe I'll find a reason to do that again. I actually might be getting a windshield from Philly. Cheesesteaks, yum!

Or maybe some untrustworthy sort might steal a sweet car and seal the deal by changing its VIN with equivalent documentation. Conversion, theft...whatever. Poof, stolen car gone and replaced with....what? And what should then happen if VIN #HLS30-04944 shows up in the USA at some point in the future? It sounds precisely like you're getting some value back for your paperwork- and a small piece of sheetmetal- you are making an "exchange" as you describe it, for an ENTIRE car yet, "a complete 260Z 2+2"- for what fits in an envelope? That's certainly worth something. Or are you including the mortal, metallic remains too, for incorporation into other cars? This is becoming, so to say, curiouser and curiouser. Who exactly, btw, has preordained that these Series I cars are worth more money? What forces have the ability to compel this unequal rise in values, skewed to some range of production, or is it merely market forces at work, with a fixed or declining supply? Are they trying to raise the values of cars "they" already possess, or are "they" just causing everybody else's cars (and parts too) to appreciate, and make the barrier to entry higher?? I too have read of something like this "happening" but haven't been able to nail it down, no evidence. I'd like to know, as I guess I have what's considered "outside" that select club.

OMG, what a nightmare! Can't you refuse such an obviously damaged shipment? And can you tell us which shipper, so we can be wary? I haven't had to (luckily) pursue a claim against any shipper yet. (knock, knock) And I wonder about the shipping damage coverage some credit cards provide...

In California. I wish I had the time to race! Looks clean- but what do I know?! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130254140811&rd=1 item # 130254140811 QUOTE-1968 Datsun 510 race car. NOT a street car. 6 log books, first book issued in '73. Was a b-sedan car from Virgina. Car was last raced by Brian Downey in 07 at the SCCA run-off's.. The car was featured in the '07 nissan comp calender in november. Car is sold as a roller...NO ENGINE...TRANSMISSION....OR ...REAR END. It would be a great vintage builder. The flair's are carbon fiber along with the hood and trunk. The doors are orignal skins. All lexan windows. 13x6 race panasports. Dropped spindle front struts, relocated control are pick-ups, bearing and rod end style front suspension, race sway bar. Rear has a modified zx crossmember and trailing arms, wilwood rear caliprs and early z car front calipers. (scca rules for G prod). Drop down alum. pedal assembly with master cylinders.Tunnel was modified for aftermarket transmission, a nissan trans will still fit. I bought the car to build for a customer but the deal fell through so its up for grabs. Very hard to find a car with six original log books. Log book and roll bar #42-217. Car is a little rough but it has been raced alot with many wins. Troy Ermish. END I bet this car could really scream after the right work.

Sean, the auction simply seemed very shady to me, at first glance, and to many others too, especially because of your carefully crafted "disclaimer". "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink and all that rot..." So with that in mind, why would I have bothered to ask a question from the seller of such a questionable item, posted in such a disingenuous manner- especially one who knew of the legal vagueness of this item in the US- as it was on the US ebay site, not anywhere else? The facts that have come up in the meanwhile, your trustworthiness, etc....all have happened while I've been quite busy, and as such I haven't noticed the goings on in this thread. It just didn't seem worth much more effort, as I'm sure you can understand, when seen from my viewpoint. So between being busy and deciding that nothing could be gained by trying to get the truth out of some "joker" - from whom I doubted I would get anything factual, and to whom I did not want to expose my ebay identity - you'll forgive me if I didn't follow through with your suggestions regarding various PM's, and ebay messaging. Besides, I just found out that you were a member here about 5 minutes ago. It still doesn't make much sense to put that auction up, imagining the potential fraud or risk of abuse with such materials. Forget about their apparent illegality in some states. All that being said, it is very nice to hear that you're a trustworthy Z guy, with best intentions for the Z community.

How is the windshield? I'm looking for one with very little pitting. With the sun in my face my windshield looks kind of like the car was driven into a dust storm by Lawrence of Arabia!

Here ya go- a few pix- 1) compressor mounted- I used a spare chrome ignition coil mounting. 2) horns- direct view 3) horns as seen thru grille 4) A/B switch- position B- it looks like it almost belongs there! Above the horn switch is the remote annunciator for my radar detector- mounted in the perfect place so I can mute with the touch of one finger, without taking my hands off the wheel. Hope this helps some of you. It really is great to be able to roar, and get someone's attention every once in a while when you need it. People really are asleep at the wheel most of the time. The mounting is certainly not the prettiest, but with so much "stuff" getting mounted, and in such an awkward position, the metal strapping provides a lot of flexibility- and holds everything in place rather well.

I added the same airhorns that can be found on many Ferraris- made by FIAMM- (NOT the cheap chinese copies!!!) along with a switch allowing a choice of either the "neep neep" or "BLAMMO". BTW, these great compressor-driven horns are cheap, under $30 if you can believe that!! Search for Fiamm Series 2000, I believe, with the metal horns. I'll add a picture later. I put a high-quality Cole-Hersee brass "pull A, pull more for B" marine switch in the hole above the hazard switch. I was going to reuse an old hazard switch, but I liked the look of the C/H switch better. I bought longer and better quality tubing at an aquarium store, and fabricated a mount using that punched soft metal strapping. Horns went vertically up front to the right of the regular horns, compressor and relays mounted on strut tower in front of the battery. VERY effective, 135 db, which is plenty loud. After almost becoming a red furry smudge with 920 Gold highlights after nearly being run over by an Excursion (among others) I decided to not be a victim anymore. My old Mercedes 6.9 had a momentary floor switch for the windshield washer system that I used in much the same way, except I rewired the relays to fire up the airhorns and my Cibie aircraft landing light/driving lights at the same time. I called it my "Honey, I'm home" switch. I'm looking for one of those and will then rewire again. I already have my horn switch rewired on the end of the turn signal- I find it much faster to reach there when fractions of a second count. Plus I've found that you can always have a pinky at the ready in dangerous situations. Meanwhile I would LOVE to have my old horns media blasted! They look fantastic. More great work by DeesZ!!! You certainly have the touch. PS- From the Ferrari348 users website- "The best way to get the authentic sound of Ferrari airhorns is to buy some from a Ferrari salvage yard. FIAMM "Serie 2000" trumpets are made of a light metal and have their own distinct tone which is not duplicated by any aftermarket FIAMM plastic horns or Stebel. Nothing does it better than the real thing. If salvaged horns cannot be acquired, the absolute closest sound to Ferrari horns you are going to get is with FIAMM, Hella, or Stebel airhorns. The tone is just slightly higher than the Ferrari horns. Only two horn frequencies make that distinct tone: 795Hz and 840Hz. Hella sells these two horns in a package. As for the other two(FIAMM/Stebel), my search came up empty, so I ended up buying the Stebel 3 horn kit and tossed out the longest "3rd" horn (630Hz) during the install for my own car."

I added it to Mike W's Z spreadsheet registry too, and also brought it to his attention. IMHO it should be documented somewhere for future reference. Getting ripped off is terrible, but seeing it happen to others is almost as sad.

Some people in this thread did mention certain limited circumstances where it might be otherwise impossible to get a perfectly good but undocumented car back on the road. This is a real shame, but are there no other ways to go about this? Send a rubbing of the VIN to Alabama I've heard. Who knows? I had the EXACT problem with my Z- which had no paperwork and had been completely purged from the NY DMV computer system in the years it was stored off the road. Since there is no title for such older cars, I had to mail multiple pages of forms (to tie you into Federal charges of mail fraud too if there was any monkey-business) and even submit affadavits from both myself *and* the seller- who luckily was still my friend these many years later- and we both had to spend nearly 2 whole days in the NYC DMV office (*shudder* what a nightmare!) so that they could first issue a temp registration, and only then begin to perform a physical record search- which took almost 75 days- before I could re-register in NJ- which is another matter completely! :devious: So in circumstances which are limited to the one described above, and like a father passing down his Z to his son, where all parties were trusted, I would barely hesitate to do a little creative welding- as long as everyone up and down the line would know about it, and no nefarious schemes were involved or planned. But there has to be a better way than becoming an "imposter" and potentially exposing yourself to criminal charges.

Ah but was it a Monday or Friday car?? You know about that subset of new cars...Monday they all had hangovers and Friday they all had headaches. And Tuesday cars we barely better than than Monday cars because all they could think about was "yesterday's hangover"... So the "most valuable of the earlier cars" is the Wednesday cars, made just after lunch. Seriously, I'm just joking about how some people have commented that apparently Z car prices are breaking up into different valuation strata, based on some prejudged set of criteria by certain types of collectors/buyers, I guess like layers of salt and fresh water- and does this lead or lag the market? It does seem to be happening in many cases though. I think we- at least those of us that might be most served by having a more accurate pricing model- should consider creating a central price reference- kept and managed *onsite*, and not solely relying on any one source. Include ebay, autotrader, auction house reporting, craigslist...etc...but including them all. See something trade, post it. Buy or sell something- post it. Notice listing prices jumping- post it. All data points might provide some clarity. Then with some real empirical data in hand, some sort of weighting methodology might present itself, with the result being that a rational equation which better represents current valuation might be established. With enough reports we could learn which prices had the most correlation with the latest prices, and by a reductive process (or is it deductive?) we could get a better idea of WHAT contributes most to variances in pricing- with the goal to quantify such work- justify doing it or not doing it- selling or buying a car with a much more certain handle on current values. Discussion here seems to be the first step towards measurement, or it remains simply an academic exercise with no resolution or verifiable answer. I have some experience with valuation models, and backtesting to optimize such equations, based on my experience on Wall Street as an options/stock trader. This is basically what I did all day- valuation models based on millions of data points- ignoring of course the fundamamental and technical influences on the pricing mode, (then pulling the trigger and committing large sums of money based on our findings- which certainly were nothing like bets at all, bettors wouldn't last a day) and it still intrigues me- so I'll volunteer to crunch numbers and publish the results. We would need lots of reporting- so rather than hijack this discussion, I'll be glad to begin a dedicated thread if the idea has enough interest. I would imagine that a simple,easy to access pricing model right here for visitors to peruse and add onto, would be a very good thing if it were accurate enough- even with Edmunds, Hagerty, duPont or whatever other valuation models are out there.

1) I missed nothing. I can't vouch for what happened within anybody else's cranium. 2) I did in fact stop to think what happened, but since finding out precisely what happened to the "donor" car is nigh impossible from the US, I did not bother trying. It made sense- for this exercise- to presume that it must have been destroyed or rendered non-road-worthy, otherwise why remove (and sell) it's entire proof of legitimacy? There might be thousands of other reasons or outcomes but I did not have either the time, nor the inclination to think that it warranted an investigation by La Sûreté Nationale, or whatever they're calling themselves now. Clouseau was busy at the time. What was important was announcing that a "ready-made" fraud kit was in fact being offered on ebay and not much more was known. 3) No legal activity other than display could have been inferred by possession of these items/document. Such as possession of burglars tools, merely having lock-picks, drills and hacksaws on your person *might* have some legal purpose, but please..... quack, quack, waddle, paddle....it's a duck. What's your exact rendering of what happened, as determinable from the available "evidence"?

] Wow, a working hand-throttle??? When I first lifted my console there was still another cable alongside the choke cable in there, and a forlorn open slot, but no handle. Not that I would have used it, well, maybe on the highway... I *really* like that price...I'm not that far from getting closer to that condition- not that I'll ever get there. No repair records and no original 4-speed on the short list of deficits. Isn't one measure of value what it would cost to replace the car in current market conditions? Maybe not "True" or "Market" value, but a definite price point, never-the-less.

Moot. Woot. ebay removed the item. As I posted in #4, I was concerned that it would promote somebody to do the "presto, change-o" now it's a 4-digit VIN (perhaps with a premium price) transformed from a rusty rat-trap, and somebody would have been stung by it. It obviously was not promoted as simply a cool keepsake, as some here have similar items displayed proudly on their garage walls. It was also reported to California DMV as a potential fraud-in-waiting, as the auction did include an official California document. They were *very* interested in hearing about this. FWIW.

Already reported to ebay.

You were saying? I still suggest that in a 30+ year old "Z universe" of restored and repainted, or rusted, ruined and crushed cars, "original" AND in great condition, has (or should have) a greater value than a restored car in *equal* condition...but then again I would, since it's one of those adjectives I value as it directly applies to my car. Doesn't seem to be happening though. :disappoin To paraphrase Uncle Junior on Sopranos- "I wanted to *date* Angie ****enson too, but nobody cared what I wanted!" (You're kidding me on that system edit?) What we want and hope for is seemingly not connected to market value. Does the "collector" looking for perceived value in his definition of rare, in an otherwise "crowded" market, thereby depress the rest of the market if our cars are outside that range? Does a rising tide not lift all boats? Who decides on the market?

I can just see someone popping up here next summer with their "cherry perfect rust-free unmolested California Car, that happens to be a friend's car btw I'm selling it on ebay for him...with VIN XXXX....with 5 extra keys, too!"

I'm very glad everybody walked away with no serious injuries, and I'm certainly the last guy to be without fault in my taking chances, driving too fast, taking corners a little too hot, etc...but what I was really wondering is when was the last time anyone ever saw a "suggested" speed limit sign? I mean no disrespect, and I'm truly sorry you suffered the potential loss/major damage of your car, and I'm the last one to throw stones, since I've certainly had several serious crashes in the past that I contributed to directly.

20+ gallons a week. Fry oil or whatever's cheapest at the Costco as backup-depending on the ambient temp too. With a few percent of dino-diesel added for the anti-biologicals part of the equation. Somebody told me not to even think about refueling in the parking lot. I guess you never know who might report you if they see you tipping a 5 gallon jug into your tank. Big brother.:embarrass: I obviously have more reading to do on the exact meaning of biodiesel. What I want to do is something better for the environment, to recycle and reuse what used to be a nuisance waste product and make something productive out of it- mileage, heating or power, whatever. I'm just learning that there is another more complex process of turning WVO into biodiesel right off the bat- more to research. I have heard it's much simpler to just filter the WVO for use in powerplants. Quite honestly this all came about very suddenly, literally days ago, right after reading about the biodiesel Z. And after my *last* $80 fill up of my 11 mpg SUV. It's really exciting to consider being able to combine things like the economics, recycling, greening, etc., of diesel, with my favorite car. Who knew?

Sweet combo. I like black, and the cf accents add a lot too. Clear lenses everywhere too maybe? Then you nickel plate all of the chrome, black powder coat the underside...then...then.... Darth Z Vade-car.

My point exactly! What if a particular car *was* finished to a very high level, but still was essentially all original?? I feel very strongly about these cars, and I just don't want to clean them up too much. I'd imagine that cars like that were in the rarest of all conditions. However they'll never drive like a modern car, and I don't want to try to make them do it. I drove a friend's fuelie Vette a few weeks ago, and it handled like crap around corners, but boy did it move out in the passing lane, yet it still had that cachet, it was historic in its own way. Just like when it came out. I wanted the same experience that a new driver felt, bias ply tires and all. Sloppy suspension, higher-profile tires and all. I didn't want to modernize it and lose the original experience. To another car with many imperfections, that had no resemblance of the stock car, that one I would tear apart and put back together looking and working better than new. You get the difference in my mind? I wouldn't want to do that to a car that was still in great enough shape- that's the slim difference I'm pointing to. Cars in great yet unrestored condition a very rare commodity these days, and one I wouldn't want to change. But seriously, how ever you choose to experience your car and other cars too.... in fact, how each person confronts the whole car culture, is IMHO so unique- which is precisely the subjective portion of valuation. To me, finding an older car, still in great shape, unrestored, close to showroom condition, with no modifications (except perhaps for safety's sake) and of course having been driven- and well- for the better part of 40 years is what attracts me. Not a Show Car. A real driver! Strong, quick and agile, something you can put your foot into, and feels the g's in a corner, clip a few apexes on the way to the store, fling it around a bit, maybe take the long way- every day maybe- just to enjoy driving on a particular road. I consider myself very lucky to live near one of these, a damn-near magical stretch 6 miles long. I can't even imagine what it would be like to live near a classic drive like "Tail of the Dragon", some place world famous. Although that has its drawbacks too I'm sure. I also bet we all have a lot of friends who think we're nuts over these cars, from owners with the slightest involvement in their cars- but enough to post here, to the people who actually make their living from Z cars, in one way or another. A lot of those people, especially those that sneer down their nose at what they can only see as "old cars" just seem to be missing the point. To them any time spent on cars is time wasted. Maybe it's a willingness to "get your hands dirty" kind of thing. On the other end of the spectrum are the few that have restored or "refreshed" their cars to amazing standards, taking years and hundreds of hours of work. There are quite a few of those on here. Your car, Larry, is sweet too. Clean, straight and if she drives like she looks you're a lucky guy. So when I see a beautifully restored classic car- like I see on here, or almost weekly at my local Cruise-In nights, I'm jealous in a way. I'll attach a few pix of some of the beauties I see all the time, and wish I owned too. I'd like to have something so clean, yet so original in appearance, with everything working and performing perfectly, and no bangs, clunks or wheezing. But there's still something special about a car who gets driven quite often, takes a few knocks and scrapes, yet ends up in front of you essentially unchanged, like a time capsule: no mods, no new paint, the same old chrome, the same weathered seats, oils smears under the hood from the 70's. Perhaps it's my way of being a cheapskate and not restoring her. Or maybe I just like these cars most with all of their years over them, not too perfect. It's definitely a special category, because- as we well know, hokey as it may sound- you can restore a car many times, but it's original only once. So look at the pictures below. Sweet cars. I'd love to have any one of them. Probably the same nice cars at similar cruise-in nights in every state (and province!) Then think again how you would feel if I told you one of them was original and unrestored! Wow. The license plate of that 60 Jaguar sums it up pretty well I think. BTW, I'm proud to say that the last 2 are of my car, with 38 year old paint, old bumpers and various knocks and dings... and almost as nice everywhere else that you'll you look.

^ ditto Yeah, it's great to see another Z car saved from the smelter! We don't need no more stinking toasters! Not only bag and tag, but take some pictures of the part in place and keep a little journal numerically keyed to the part too. I've used a Sharpie and a small tag made from duct tape- it resists wear and aging better than paper labels. (Used to use Polaroid pix, but they stopped making the film a year or so ago- how time flies!) This way you always know the proper orientation or the part, but you also have tons of pix to show us! I love following along with projects. Best of luck!!! Any idea of a color yet???