Jetaway

Leon, Check out: http://zhome.com/History/zcarperf.html Has records of contemporary reviews of 240Z, 260Z, and 280Zs. Horsepower, acceleration times, top speeds, etc. Chris

Slight, I think both of the Phoenix cars are worth checking out. The green one might have some rust on the passenger door (back low and front low) and if present, would call for the body to get a closer going over than otherwise. The Black car sounds better, but I would have some worries about "lots of steering wheel play." Play with the toe-in enough and anything will go straight. Ultimately it depends on what "lots" means. Could be very little, just more than it had been. So... the Green car looks as if it has been driven hard. The Black car looks like a restoration that the owner ran out of money to do. If I could only check out one, I'd check out the Black car. But $1,400 is nothing to sneeze at. If nothing else, Slight, clip and save the Black car as another "decent' car at a fair price. Chris

Whoa! Or maybe Wow! Not sure how to spell exclamations. It's not my cup of tea, but doing unto others as I hope they unto to me: It's his damn car! Whether his vision is psychosis or genius, I judge not. Chris

Man, even using Rock Autos fastest deliver option, I'd save a good chunk of change going through them. Anybody have experience with them? Good quality parts? Chris

Steve, Thanks. I was aware of the Datsun Parts drums. I could swear I checked them about a week ago and thywere asking $169.99 each. $129.99 changes the equation considerably. I think I will try the locals again and see if I can get some clarification on what is meant by "steel" drums. The Datsun Parts description says "steel insert," which makes perfect sense as aluminum isn't a real good choice as a friction surface. He did also say they were manufactured in Japan, which is more encouraging than not being made in Japan, but not exactly definitive. Chris

The import parts dealer in these parts quoted me $99.50 each for "steel" brake drums. He's an older Japanese gentlemen, and his English is a little shaky. (I assume he immigrated as his daughter, who also works at the store, uses flawless English.) I had asked him if he could tell whether they were cast iron or aluminum. I've never heard of steel brake drums, but there's a lot I haven't heard of. Does such things exist? Or, as I suspect, the Japanese word/phrase for cast iron was misinterpreted when translated into the auto parts database as "steel." Chris

A review of the Datsun 240Z by a British automobile magazine. I found the statements on power output, the intended market, their performance comparisons and driving impressions quite interesting. And that the year before Datsun sold, hold your heart, 3000 cars in England. The response was to the above statements by me: What I found interesting: Statements in this thread that U.S. cars had lower power outputs than other markets. Apparently not less than in England. That Autocar said it was "aimed primarily at the US market." That Autocar called it a big and heavy car and in fact, drove as a heavy car, probably a little too burly for most women. Believe me, you would not find that Americans considered the 240Z as big and heavy. Not even for a sports car. Road and Track (April 1970) noted the lightness of the 240Z steering and that clutch and brake pressures were comfortable. That Autocar found the interior to have too much plastic, too simple, which sounds like a polite way of saying too cheap. Road & Track was "impressed by a very modern layout ... almost Corvette like if it weren't more tastefully done." Not that Autocar panned it, calling it "an excellent sports coupe..." and that it would seem a "natural successor" to the big Healey but that would be unfair because the Z was "so much more comfortable, so much roomier, and so much better-handling" than the Healey. And to your, I must say, I took as somewhat snarky, response to my repeating their statement that 3000 Datsun's had been sold in England the year before: Duh, gee you know more about the popularity of various car makes in England than I do. Would living in London have anything to do with that? In the U.S., especially in California, I wouldn't doubt there were single dealerships selling 2000 Datsuns a year in 1970. I do realize that this is an international audience, but nonetheless, most of the subscribers are American and I suspect most would be as surprised as I was to discover so few Datsuns were sold in England in 1970. All of which bears on the never-ending debate on whether the 240Z was designed with the American market as a major target in mind. Of course it was. The Japanese understood the importance of the American car market. The English, French, and Italians apparently didn't and the combined market share of all three countries today would be lucky to break 1%. Chris

I await further confirmation on the power output. Are you saying that the 240Zs used SAE Gross (which could well be true) while the 260Zs used SAE Net? I was cleaning my 240Z one afternoon and found a butterfly smashed against it in the only dent, a small one, that it had. I joked to my son that the butterfly dented my bumper. (See photo) I was joking, yes, but not that much of a stretch. My bumper weighs next to nothing and the mounting brackets, not much. I wouldn't be at all surprised that the bumpers and the brackets, not to mention strengthened attachment posts on a 260Z push 250 lbs. Take my "next to nothing" and make it 50 lbs (probably a little less.) and there's 200 right there. Chris

1) Horsepower fell from 150 in the 240 to a low of 129 with the 260 in the U.S. because of emission controls and also picked up a couple 100 pounds, much of it concentrated at the ends of the car. Made in sluggish both in a straight line and in the corners. 2) GASP! Just kidding -- as I've been known to say: It's my damn car. And an desmogged 280 dropped into a 240 has, with good reason, enthusiastic adherents. There was something else from your post. Oh, yeah. While Z's and ZX's share not a whit of sheet metal, brakes, suspension, etc., the engine, tranny, and with some work, I understand, differential, are swappable. You'll find a lot of 240s, which like mine, had a 280ZX 5-spd installed at same point in the past. And an electronic ignition from either of the 280s or an after-market one. Chris

Threehz seems to have it right by me. You'd certainly want to investigate the rust further, and search around for info. on common rust problem areas on 240Z as well. Interior looks good, suspect the paint looks better in picture than in person, but at least I don't think you are paying anything for it. Looks like the same non-OEM dash cap that I have, but I'd rather keep my child than trade him for a OEM one. The center vent even seems to have the same weird green stuff than mine had. If nothing else, you might want to download and save the ad because it seems to be an example of a typical "decent" condition car selling for a fair price. Regarding the models: 240Zs command a premium, not huge, but a premium, if for no other reason than it is the original model. 280Zs have their adherents because with the larger motor, now old enough to be past smog requirements and hence modifiable, they can be as flat-out as quick as the 240 and, I have to admit, safer because of a heavier frame along with some Federally required safety features. A bit more recognizably modern too. The 240Zs, in many ways are closer to 1950s design while the 280Zs are closer to 1980s practices (ammeter rather than voltage, cable ventilation controls rather than vacuum operated, fixed vs.retractable seat belts, carbs vs. FI). I think some are simply a bit more comfortable with the newer designs. Myself -- don't care. Well, four years ago I would have said Fuel Injection rules! Still does, but after reading threads on doping out FI problems, I find myself relieved that I only have to deal with two tricky carbs. No one likes the 260Zs in America. (The 280Z was never sold outside the U.S.). Which could work to your advantage. Stick with the coupe to save weight, get it as tuned as possible and when you graduate and get a job, drop a Chevy 350 in it. Seriously, if I had bought a 260z, it would be Chevy powered by now. Chris

Oh, of course 1971 was the year currency markets were set free, or cut loose from reality, take your choice. Using 1 pound = $2.50, as a reasonable average for the year, buying an English Z cost $5,720. Chris

How about a flashback to 1971? A review of the Datsun 240Z by a British automobile magazine. I found the statements on power output, the intended market, their performance comparisons and driving impressions quite interesting. And that the year before Datsun sold, hold your heart, 3000 cars in England. http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsHistory/Datsun-240Z-2.4/204152/ Chris

Nonrunning? Pics will help even more in giving you a reasonable number to expect. Be sure to include a couple interior shots. Chris

Note to self, do not use angle brackets. The above should read: Then ask him if he is one of the (prominent old money family) boys" and yes or no, run with it;) Chris

FastWoman, Even better. As a lady of a certain age, you simply have to find a true son of the south and ask him: "These fell off my car. Are they still good?" (Do not worry about a son of the south asking the question that an uncouth northerner might, to wit: "Fell off the car?") You don't even have to know the kind of car, the max. diameter is molded in, but if asked what kind of car, "My dearly departed's fun car, it a ... oh my, a Dangle, no, thats not it, its one of those funny little Japanese models, a, oh my, my memory isn't what it used to be." Then ask him if he is one of the <prominent old money family> boys" and yes or no, run with it;) After finishing Florence King's Southern Ladies and Gentlemen or Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady you may never have to pay for professional car repair again. Then again, you must already have some wiles as you've already scored new cylinders and shoes. Chris

Oh, and I forgot to add: Nothing wrong with putting the penetrant on a day or two days early. Put some on, give it a few raps with a hammer. Give it another couple raps every time you walk past the car and top off, so to speak, the penetrant if its looking a bit dry. Chris

FastWoman, The beginning of a great adventure. Perhaps a bit impudent, but why are you so sure your rotors and pads are in good condition? And if you are sure, why do you want to replace the calipers? If they are working and not leaking, they are working and not leaking, can't ask for more than that. And, at least on my 1072, the calipers are a fairly easy job. Easier than replacing the pads, IMO, though, obviously the former can't be done without also doing the latter. Of course you should order new brake shoes and probably rebuild or replace ($$) the wheel cylinders. I mean, if you agree with my reasoning above and don't get new shoes and cylinders, you would hardly be doing a brake job, no? Straight up, yes, definitely should get new shoes. If the 1978s are like the 1972s, and I believe they are close enough, inspecting the rear brake assembly, once you have gotten the (bad word) drums off the first time, is easy enough and non-destructive. So, it isn't really necessary to order every possible replaceable part in advance. If the wheel cylinders are working OK and not leaking, I'd try to find a rebuild kit. Let me know if you find a source, as I've got to do the drums soon myself. Pull the brake drums and if you have a micrometer that measures inside distances, take a few measures and if none are under, I think it is the minimum spec. plus .04 inches, you should be able to get them turned. Or if you don't have a micrometer, pull the drums and do the Southern Woman eye-batting thing until a gentleman at a brake repair shop offers to measure them for you in honor of the glory of Southern Womanhood. (I get this feeling that you would like Florence King.) So here, I'd rebuild the wheel cylinder if a kit can be found. If not, boy, they are expensive little devils. I guess if they look at you cross-eyed in the least, I'd bite the bullet and get a new pair. Get Zen on the Drums. You either will need new ones or you won't -- it's out of your control now. Here's a recent thread on relined aluminum drums. There were one or two other sources "on their way" mentioned as well, but this one appears ready to go. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?37396-Anyone-interested-in-relined-Aluminum-drums&highlight=drums And peering into the future: I asked a similar question about rear disc conversion a couple of months ago. No one said it was worthwhile if I'm not racing. Heck, at least one racer said he doesn't think they are worth the money for racing. Though I'm guessing it depends on the type of racing. Chris

My condolences on your father's passing. Others may have a more informed opinion on this, but if I were in the market for a car, I would discount a car, heavily, that hasn't ran in 10 years relative to one that is in runnable condition. Have you worked on cars, or at least are willing to get a little dirty? If so, I think that spending $100 -- $150 on new fluids / misc. hoses / clamps and an eight to ten hour day working on it, would pay off handsomely in the selling price. I need to give a prospective car a pretty good drive, a good 30 minutes if I've really interested in it, to get a feel for it and to see if it develops any bad behaviors. Doesn't have to drive flawlessly, but I'm willing to pay more if I think I have a good idea about the devil under the sheet metal than if I don't even know if he exists. I would be very reluctant to give a 30 minute shakedown to a car with decade old and counting fluids in it for fear of either having some break on the drive, or causing damage that would soon become manifest, or simply exponentially increasing the time and effort required to clean all the old gunk out. Chris

As usual with me, what I did yesterday. Removed and cleaned out the troublesome passenger side dome light switch. While I was down there, I figured, what the heck, might as well as install the Super-Duper, Double Double Close-Out Clearance LED accent lamp ($2.47, no kidding) in the passenger footwell. Not exactly as bright as day, but it partially fills in the shadow cast by the LED dome light. Chris

You know, I gotta admit when I began following this thread and responding, I was beginning to wonder if you were sane or that perhaps it was some sort of social networking experiment. All is clear now. Run those "works" teams into the ground! Chris

I wish American manufacturers still offered the dizzying combination of drivetrain components that they did in the 1960s. From a 1966 Road and Track GM performance car ad the SS 396 (i.e., Chevelle with Super Sport components) only had 2 engine choices (both 396's) but a 3 or 4 spd manual or the 2-spd PowerSlide auto or the 3-spd Turbo-HydroMatic automatic with, in the case of the 4-spd High Output 396, no less than seven rear ends ranging from 3.07 to 4.88, all also available with Posi-Traction. True, some of the rear ends couldn't be ordered without Posi, and not every transmission had a choice of seven differentials, but all in all, quite the selection. If you consider the base Chevelle as part of the line, dang skippy, you'd probably get another three or four engine packages to consider. Not to mention the possibilities with a dealer who had an "in" with COPO's. The lack of options on at least the earliest of the Z's wasn't particular to the Z per se, rather that was standard practice with the high-volume importers. Inexpensive imports, especially those in high demand, were ordered by the distributor with the factory options (engine, transmission, interior, etc.) that they felt met the demands of the American market. Many of the items we consider "factory" options today were actually installed by import dealers (radios, air conditioning. exterior trim, bumper guards, etc.) after delivery. Even when factory options were nominally available in America, not many people wanted to wait the 2 - 4 months it would take for the car to be ordered, shipped, prepped, and delivered. Even high-end cars, M-Bs, Porsches, Jags, which had more options available tended to have relatively thin choices when compared with contemporary American cars. It was later, I'm thinking the early to mid-1980s, though I could be a half decade off on that, that importers and foreign manufacturers began introducing "packages," which would incorporate a related group of options (comfort or looks, or performance or all three into one package) into one tidy, but indivisible package. (Somewhat different than American packages at the time, which largely consisted of options that also could be ordered individually.) Alas, "packages" today, foreign or domestic, seem to be formed more on the basis of having one or two really cool or useful options thrown in with a bunch of crap you don't want (notice how I cleverly leave it open as to what is "cool" or "junk";)) than with a coherent purpose in mind. Thus forcing you to buy stuff you don't want or to go without something you really need. Chris

Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about the glovebox. In other cars, in the last century, I had mounted a radio or two in there. Well, one radio at a time. The fuel-air gauge is interesting, but wouldn't need to be easily monitored like temp, oil pressure,or amps. Chris

You did check the vacuum advance, right? Taking off the top of the float chamber is, uh, frustrating. Lift, turn (I don't remember which way), tilt a bit, take a deep breath and keep trying. Eventually it will seem to just come out in your hand. Putting it back on is much the same, if that's any consolation. Probably not. Search for "float level" in the Carburetor Systems forum. You'll find a handy gauge to make and plenty of tips on how to measure the fuel level. Chris

Yup, fuel or electrical all right;) Though my guess is fuel, I'd do a basic electrical check first, if only because I'd rather stand than crawl under the car. Steve suggested pulling the plugs and having a look-see. Good place to start. Replace the points and condenser, its cheap and you can't easily test the condenser anyway. Verify the points setting. Inspect cap and rotor for corrosion, burns, anything unusual. Replace if necessary. Make sure you have a good connection on the distributor and plug end. Drive car, if possible, otherwise let it warm up a bit at idle. Mark the timing marks with chalk or something else bright. Hook up a timing light. Disconnect and plug vacuum advance hose. Start car, get the idle as close to 650 as possible by adjusting screw on the long throttle lever or, if that does nothing, by adjusting idle setting screw on each carb 1/8th of a turn at a time. Check timing. Adjust to spec, if necessary. Hook up vacuum advance hose. Idle speed should increase and timing advance 5 - 7 degrees more or less (check manual -- my advance is dead, so I haven't bother to look it up in awhile). If idle speed doesn't increase and timing doesn't advance, you have a dead vacuum advance. Do something with the vacuum hose -- leave it on the advance if you don't hear a hissing or plug it otherwise. Go back and advance the timing 7 - 10 degrees. See what happens when you bring it off idle. Still running bad? Fuel side, others have a lot more experience with that than me (so far, cross fingers) so I turn it over to them. Chris

Cool. Thanks. I'm already thinking about where to mount the gauge -- can't use (former clock) because I have a Sun tach over there. Chris