kjones

Dave, I sent you a PM... Hope to talk to you soon Ken

Yeah look what happens... we have a great conversation until you arrive with incorrect information and wrong quotes! Then try to turn a great thread into a turbo vs supercharger argument! Both a turbo and a supercharger have their place in the high performance world, it just depends on personal preference and the desired end result... Please don't continue along the lines that you started... it has no place here. MANY people run more than 7 psi of boost with no intercooler for many reasons, from simplicity to cost to a whole host of other reasons. My supercharged 280z runs 13.5 psi on pump gas with NO detonation what-so-ever... MAT are monitored closely and have stayed within reason. While intercooling will help, this is an R&D project and I prefer to make small incremental changes so I can accurately analyze the results of EACH change. Did I ever say one dumps more air than the other? Ah No... I was trying to understand what Datto-Zed was proposing and pointing out the challenges that he would face in tuning... I know this from experience based on my findings I disagree... tuning around the bypass has been one of the biggest tuning challenges we have faced. That is probably the most sensible paragraph that I've read from your posts... finally!!! Well, sorry, but the whole depress pedal, wait, hold on, no wait I gotta grab a different gear thing isn't what I was looking for... Most people who are looking into supercharging are of the same opinion. While there are things you can do to reduce turbo lag (and let's not go there in this thread), reality is it can't be completely eliminated. My goals were to have good power that was there all the time. I didn't need to have a ridiculous amount, just good respectable power... I wanted to road race with my configuration (although its great on the street too). I wanted predictable throttle response through a turn on a road coarse with the power being there when I needed it. If I needed to feather in the throttle at the apex, I want the power to be there when I do so. I've driven several turbo cars on the road coarse and they were all a handful to drive and as a result I was slower than when I drove a similar car with less power in a NA configuration ... why? because I was able to drive the NA much more smoothly. So there's my opinion... BTW I love turbo's too... I'm building a turbo Z right now... with a different set of goals and intended use! The merits of supercharging have their place in any performance application... that is reality. Quite frankly, if more people got a ride in my car, I'm sure it would make you reconsider several of your points... This will be my last post on this thread... you guys have fun...

That's great to hear! BTW the current motor has no head work at all... I wanted people to see a baseline number without tons of engine mods so that people could easily reproduce it... the engine has a stock p90 head on it, with a custom cam made my schneider... Obviously with some head work and some more experimenting with the cam much more power can be found The bottom end is .040 over bore stroker... LD28 crank and 240Z rods with custom forged pistons... 8.5:1 CR Nothing special... The exhaust is LOUD due to the headers (Nismo 1 3/4" primaries) with a 3" exhaust... Aside from that it's nothing all that radical as far as the engine is concerned. I'd love to see the performance of one of these babies on a Rebello or Sunbelt motor! Ken

Should be around 270-280 rwhp based on the configuration on that day... The low end torque is very impressive and comes in very strong at very low rpm. I'll by putting it on the dyno again shortly.

Justin, Have you seen this thread? http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=129685#post129685 There is a short video posted on some testing we were doing... It's explained in the other thread, but the video is located at: http://flzclub.com/videos/blownZ.WMV

You'll be surprised how "little" details on moving components turn into big hassles... And some 240Z's have the AC compressor mounted on that side of the motor too! Just one of several reasons why we elected not to remote mount the SC If using a SC with an internal bypass there is no outlet provision to allow you to channel the air anywhere other than into the SC outlet, thus with an internal bypass system it can't be done. If you get an external bypass, then maybe? who knows... Maybe I'm misunderstanding you? Take a look at the picture on the magnuson website of the inlet side of the SC, maybe that'll help you visualize it... It gradually closes on light throttle and slams slut immediately on abrupt throttle.... exactly what you want... One note... the reason I said that your wastegate idea and also the bypass would present a tuning challenge is because my experience has been that the bypass when closing introduces a significant amount of air rather quickly. Getting your engine management system to compensate with the appropriate amount of fuel in these conditions can be tricky (but doable). Most times you have to experiment with Acceleration enrichments and be careful with your tuning. But it's no different to most other tuning challenges... persistence pays off... Yes, the whipple is intriguing. I was very disappointed that they didn't participate in this project for the magazine. Someday I'll follow up with them again. That configuration works, but for instant throttle response (which is one of the reasons for picking a SC in the first place) the best physical location to introduce the boost is as close to the intake valve as possible. Remote mounting has it's advantages and disadvantages just like anything else. I'd say if you can mount it to the manifold and intercool it, that is the best option. Once I get to that point I'll report my findings. Plus, if I have a manifold cast, it'll solve your dilemma of not having a manifold source available Stay in touch and I'll let everyone know what's going on with the project... Who knows if it works out "really" well I might move up to the next size blower and attempt to go to 16-20 pounds of boost (with intercooling). My stroker (8.5:1 CR) has forged internals and should be able to handle up to 20 psi with no problem :devious:

Justin, The remote mounting options that you describe have merit, but after considering every option and spending several hours on conference calls with the manufacturer, it was decided that the manifold mounting option was best... why? 1. Ease of installation 2. Throttle response 3. Boost levels in most cases wouldn't require an intercooler 4. Not having to re-orient vacuum canisters, AC components, fuel filter mounting and a bunch of other things that you'd never think of...(keep in mind that if I market a kit someday I want it to be an easy trouble free installation). There are many differences between the 240Z, 260z, 280z and the 280zx and I wanted it to be able to easily adapt to any of them. Just to clarify one of your points, you can't dump the air from the internal bypass to the atmosphere and this isn't needed. That's what makes the bypass so great and very simple! One other note on some of your ideas with the wastegate... I think that doing it the way you describe would be doable but it may present a tuning challenge for you... Hard to say without actually trying it I guess. As far as the water injection.... remember this is an R&D project where we are testing this configuration and the results drive the next set of upgrades. As a result, in this case water injection will be used to see how much benefit would be derived from intercooling and if it is worth it. Obviously, I know there is benefit and I'm already planning the next manifold design which will incorporate some VERY cool water to air intercooling options and still have the SC mounted on the manifold... basically the best of both worlds ... I can't say much on that until after June... The Whipple SC is another very interesting supercharger and we tried for over a year to have them participate in this project! We were ready to design 2 identical setups and compare them! Magnuson decided to work with us and Whipple dragged their feet... If they ever come around again, I'd be happy to work with them.

Hi, The supercharger is the latest design from Magnuson... the model is the MP62 Here's some information about how the bypass valve works: http://www.magnusonproducts.com/bypass.htm The MP62 is also used in the Stillen kit for the 350Z I'm spinning the blower to close to it's limit just to test the boundaries and it's doing just fine... It is currently making 13.5 pounds of boost on my 3.0 liter stroker with no intercooler! To get any more boost I'd have to move up to the next size which is the M90. More info can be found at http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp62.htm I'm going to experiment with water injection on my existing manifold which should allow me to increase the timing under boost. The next step will be to redesign the manifold to allow it to fit under a stock hood and provide some other intercooling options (sorry can't say any more until after June when the next edition of the magazine is delivered). Regards Ken

When you figure out the whole lottery thing, please post your results/findings :cross-eye Glad ya like the BlownZ it's a total rip to drive... Can't wait to get it out on the track... My intention was to road race with it, so I believe it's ready to go! Ken

Yes that's a custom fiberglass hood that we made. I have the mold if anyone would like a copy! Anyway, the next manifold (currently almost finished) will relocate the supercharger and it will fit under a stock hood. You guys have to get Sport Z Magazine! All this stuff is in there!!! Ken

A couple of old pics (with my old temporary wheels) and before the wiring was cleaned up are available at http://www.flzclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42 Ken

If you're in Florida we'll have it on the Sebring Long Coarse this saturday (5/14)! Most of the people in our club are going to attend... 3 members have signed up to drive the rest are coming for the barbeque and ride along program. You can take all the pics you want! More pics are available under our members rides section at our club website which is http://flzclub.com Come on out to Sebring on Saturday!!!! We're having a barbeque, setting up some canopys, and Chin Motorsports will provide ride alongs in the car of your choice for $20 ... basically for 20 bucks you could sit in the passenger seat of some very fast cars with competent drivers all day long! You might even get to ride along in the supercharged Z if time permits! Info can be found at http://flzclub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=245#post245 Regards Ken

Hey guys... That's my Supercharged 280z... Just to clarify, no wastegate or BOV is needed and it's a very simplistic setup. The supercharger has a vacuum actuated bypass valve which takes care of all the off throttle cruising concerns that you raised. It is very drivable and pretty fuel efficient too! 22 mpg is the best I've got so far, but of coarse I can never get through a tank of gas without being tempted to mash the pedal several times Regards Ken

Hey all... That's my car... If you're in Florida we'll have it on the Sebring Long Coarse this saturday (5/14)! Please come join us! We'll finally get to check out the awesome work John Coffey did on the suspension. Most of the people in our club are going to attend... 3 members have signed up to drive the rest are coming for the barbeque and ride along program. We're having a barbeque, setting up some canopys, and Chin Motorsports will provide ride alongs in the car of your choice for $20 ... basically for 20 bucks you could sit in the passenger seat of some very fast cars with competent drivers all day long! You might even get to ride along in the supercharged Z if time permits! Info can be found at http://flzclub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=245#post245 Regards Ken

If you'd like to hear my supercharged L-Series (3 liter) Check out this link... http://flzclub.com/videos/blownZ.WMV Ken

Hello... I don't have your phone number, so I've been waiting for your call. I haven't received an IM or email from you. My email address is ken280z@hotmail.com and my phone number is 321-454-4971... Since it's kinda late today I think the first chance I'll have to come and pick it up will be mid- next week... Is that ok? Hope to hear from you soon. Ken

I'd like to talk to you about your 240Z. My email address is ken280z@hotmail.com My phone number is 321-454-4971 Please contact me so we can discuss your car. Ken

Hello! I'm interested. Mind if we talk via phone? I'm in Merritt Island and can be reached at 321-454-4971 or email your phone number to ken280z@hotmail.com and I'll gladly pay for the call. Ken

Contact me at ken280z@hotmail.com regarding your car... I live in central florida too!