clutchdust

for those of you who don't remember i'm working on a friends z for her. it sat for years so i got it running just to have a valve hang and get slapped sideways by the piston. so she asks me to go ahead and fix it. i pulled the head and replaced the valve, and concequently the guide as well. so i managed to get the head off and back on without dropping the chain. well let me back up. i really screwed up and just started disassembling the thing. didn't bother timing the engine or anything, just yarding stuff out. hey, i'm a SBC guy, give me a break. so when i reinstalled the head, i just got the sprocket back on the cam and rolled the #1 cylinder up to TDC. then i rotated the cam as close as i could get to both #1 valves were centered closed. after i installed all the rockers (note to self: install rockers BEFORE cam next time) i turned them all up to 0 lash (FOR TESTING PURPOSES ONLY, and rotated the engine over a few times to make sure i had not piston/vavle contact. one thing that concerns me though is all the fighting i did with the chain. at one point, i was so tired i just let the thing go and the chain did not fall. i'm thinking that's not right. i did get it all back together and the chain is tight. so i'm wondering if i have some kind of chain tensioner problem. what's your thought on the cam timing and chain tensioner? today i plan to put it all back together and fire it over. hope nothing bad happens.

arizona, she's just a friend, typical woman who wouldn't know a cresent wrench from a cresent roll so i'm just trying to help her NOT get screwed. she's also been a good friend and now she needs some money. she's out of work and doesn't have the money to fix the car. she hates having to let it go but she doesn't want to give it away either. it's tough as we all have a tendency to include 'sentimental value' in our asking price. i'm doing much of this for free (labor, she's buying the parts) just because that's how i am with friends. carguy, i know the boneyards of which you speak. been there a few times. i have a 1 ton chevy and it's fallen in a few 'holes' itself. seriously, i've actually hit the diff going through some of that crap so i know what you mean. i think she wants more for the car than what it's worth, especially what it's worth to me. i just really started to take a shine to the body style but i don't need any more projects right now anyway. if it was a good driver that i could smog as it sits, i'd seriously be considering $600 for it, but then she'd be asking $1k. personally, i like fiberglass myself and steel cars scare me (rust is a bad thing!).

so i talked to my friend last night and she wants to sell it. she's thinking $600 firm because it was a real strong runner before she put it up. it was overhauled a few years before and mechanically sound. that's about twice what i was willing to pay for it so it doesn't look like i'll be buying it. the car is in las vegas. anybody find this interesting? think she'll be able to get $600 with a bent valve?

sorry guys, no digital camera. yes, the rust is blistering the paint. in a few places, it has flaked off to reveal cancer in all it's glorious hideousness. the thing about the valve that gets me is i had the thing running for a while and it sounded pretty darn good. then just after a few more start/stop cycles, i noticed the rockers jumping off the valve head and cocking. next thing you know, no compression on #3 cylinger:mad: just to get the clearance after that the adjusting stud is 1/4" higher than the rest. now i know that's not right because when i set the initial clearance all the studs were just about the same level and, coincidentally, i had compression on all six cylinders. there is one thing i've noticed about the body/frame. it appears someone at some point tried to jack the car up by the subframe on the passenger side. just directly under the passenger footwell. i surmise this because of the big ^ in subframe rail. i don't know what this will do to the car structurally. it doesn't appear to pull any of the rest of the body panels but i figure it can't be too good considering it's structural.

my friend with the '72 Z i've been working on wants to sell it. she's trying to determine if it's worth fixing the bent valve first. she thinks that if it's running properly (mostly) she can get 1k for it. without it running correctly, we're thinking only $300-$500. the body is mostly straight although it looks like there is eveidence of bondo (i haven't magnet tested the body yet). there is also significant rust along the lenght of the rocker panels. the interior is, well, 30 years old and not bad for being 30 years old. the engine seemed to run o.k. until that valve hung and got bent. i've never driven the car more than about 40 feet at a time so i can't say much about suspension. brakes will actually hold the car although the M/C caps decayed into a nasty goo and the 'fluid' looks more like chassis grease:sick: back to the original problem that caused the car to sit for so long from the beginning, there is an electrical problem somewhere that causes the taillights to cut out. i haven't actually seen this happen but that's what she tells me the car did and why she stopped driving it.

tragic news indeed. we are all saddened by this as these events know no borders and no politics. these astronauts, like all those before them, showed the world the wonder of the human spirit, the strength of cooperation, the foritude of determination and faces of courage. i hope this may be the last time i ever hear news like this, however, as long as mankind continues to be inquisitive he will push back the boundaries of his own existance and he will do so at his own peril. without failure, success wouldn't be so sweet. for those that can, we must. for those who can't, we should never let these deeds and this courage be forgotten.

thanks guys mudge, heat is always a problem for me. it is vegas afterall. i put a two core griffin in my 'vette and it was still running 200-205* even in october:ermm:

o.k. just so i get this straight before hand, lets see if i understand what some of you guys are saying about removing the head. here's the proceedure i think you guys are recommending: 1) remove cover, intake and exhaust, drain coolant 2) bring the engine around to line up the 'shiny' link to top of head 3) old a piece of heater or similar hose and wedge it down between the two sides of the cam chain. 4) remove fuel pump and cam sprocket 5) pull head bolts and remove head 6) fix head and reassemble in reverse order. how does that sound? especially step (3), am i on the same page now? at any point do need to actually remove the cam from the head? while were at it, i was going to ask about radiators. the one that's in there is cracked in several places so i need to replace it. instead of going with a recore or reproduction, i thought i would look for a griffen or be cool that's really close. does anyone have an aluminum rad that fits with minimal modifications?

one thing about the LSDs. if i can find one that's drop in, i'll likely go that way. if i have to do any fabricating to make something work, i'm not putting an import diff in there. i see corvette dana 36 and dana 44s on the corvette forum pretty frequently. i really wanted to buy one from this guy as a backup for mine. dana 44 all aluminum housing for $250. i really wanted to buy it but the guy lives in florida and i'm in vegas. it would have cost me as much to ship it as to buy it. the nice thing about the dana is i know i WILL NOT break it. i'd break the car before i'd break one of these diffs. the other nice thing is the dana 44 and c-4 dana 36s are all aluminum housings, they only weigh 75# fully assembled. might look at those infiniti and suby third members though. back to the head issue. do you guys buy your parts locally or are there any good mail-order/national parts house that specializes in the Z? i'm wondering why i don't see a supporting vendor menu that might have required parts. i only see 'restoration' stores advertising interior and body parts. the other question i had was when i pull this head off, do you think having it milled will result in any significant compression change? how will that affect the cam chain and cam timing?

thanks for the reply. does that mean i can order the '72 valves for this head and they should be the same? i mean, what is listed in the parts house books for a '72 will be correct for this head. right? i'm really surprised an IRS is not posi (limited slip). is there another third member commonly substituted for the factory one that is posi and how difficult would such a swap be?

so i'm getting ready to pull the head and check out those valves but i thought i would call a Z shop and get some pricing on some of the parts. they told me they needed a code off the head. now, i don't remember where but i thought i heard that the early cars had iron heads. this one is aluminum. the code on the head is E88. is this the head that is supposed to be on this engine? does anybody know of a good site for replacement parts? does this site have any supporting vendors? i also have an unrelated question about the rear end. is there a HD unit for these cars? what year(s) have such a unit and how do you identify them? are these cars 'posi'?

thanks for the tip. i'm going to see if i can get some time to work on it this weekend. i already have a haynes manual for it but i might go find a newer version since mine is written in the 'wrong' english. the thing talks about gudgeon pins and earths like i know what that means! i'm glad you guys mentioned it because i never even gave it a thought. i would have just pulled that bolt off the front of the cam sprocket and most likely watched in horror as the chain snapped down into the block. anything else i should watch for?

o.k., i think i can come up with a suitable antenna. so your saying to make sure i mark the timing and then slip the antenna through the chain as close to the block as possible? sorry, i haven't looked at it is about two weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy as to it's configuration. please expand.

see, now this is why i like learning from other peoples mistakes. i had no idea about a tensioner. where do i need to jam a piece of hose? is this something in an archive folder? maybe i can just read up on someone else's step-by-step experience with this.

so if i do pull the head, how do i deal with the chain? i'm seriously not going to pull the front of the engine down for this crap. can i just mark the cam timing and pull the sproket bolt? any advise on this stuff?

beandip: not an XKE, 3rd gen 'vette. i'm considering this just because i need something sporty to drive on the street and the vette is so far beyond that now it just hurts.:devious: derk, the initial deal is $5/hr since i'm not an automobile mechanic, plus i'm doing this as a personal favor to her. she needs help getting back on her feet since she just lost her job in socal and had to move back here to get things straight.

one word.....:sick: but might as well:dead: . if you look really close, i think it's begging to be put out of it's misery.

daniel, here in nevada, i can just put a mechanics lein on it if things got nasty. i can't really see that happening but if it did, that would be an option. then nobody could sell the car. right now i don't know if i would want the car even when it's running. after all, i've never driven a Z so how would i know? i mean i like the shape and the looks and i've definately seen some good looking ones but i really don't know what they're like. can't imagine it NOT being fun though.

thanks guys. i talked to the owner today and i think we came to an agreement. i'm going to get it mechanically reliable from here out on my own $. when i'm done, or comfortable that it is reliable, i will total up the entire investment. if she wants to reimburse me, then she gets her car back and we're all happy. if it's more than she wants to spend, then i'll reimburse her for what she's already paid and consider that payment for the car. i explained to her the condition of the rust and the structural damage we're talking about so she knows. however, since we both live in vegas now and for the forseeable future, the amount of rust should not accelerate too rapidly. she's in a position right now where she needs a reliable car for the next few years that doesn't have a car note. i don't mind fixing things for her to keep it running so that's a bonus. no matter which one of us actually gets the car, the unfortunate truth is the best thing to do, from an expense standpoint, is just drive it until the wheels fall off.

sunshine through sunday, ehh? got sunblock? FG is that small, huh? buddies name was neil. we lost touch a few months after he moved. he would forward stuff to me though until about last year and i haven't gotten anything from him in a while. went by 'testtune'. i still miss vancouver... in july and august.

hey brian, i used to live in vancouver, wa for a couple years and a friend of mine moved up to FG about three years back. so....how's the weather? (sorry for that)

owner is out in the desert 'sunbathing' . just kidding. she was talking about restoring the car and i explained to her how serious the rust issue was so she's debating the worth of even spending money to get it running if it's a junk car. i haven't delved very deeply into because the rust is jumping out from under the paint to meet me (kinda bubbly, if you know what i mean:rolleyes: ). but hey, i can weld and i can bend sheetmetal so if i drive it for a couple years and fab up some new sheetmetal. i'm still thinking that $100-200 is not bad for a car, even if i have to throw it away in a few years.

some of you have followed my brief saga working on a friends '72. for those that haven't, this is what i know of it. she got it sometime in the '80s, i think as a graduation present, and used it as primary transportation for years. problem is, she lived in colorado for many of those years, you know, snow and salt:sick: anyway, she moved down to vegas in the early nineties and continued to drive the car relatively trouble free. it eventually developed an electrical problem she couldn't get fixed sometime around '98-'99 so she just parked it. that is were i come in, well, 3-4 years later anyway. she finds out i'm a mechanic (industrial) by trade and asks if i can get it running for her 'cause she loves her car. i say, "sure, i can get it running" and we bring it over to my house where it's been now for about 5 months. i have disassembled and 'overhauled' the carbs (yes, i threw away that cheesy piece of fuel line in the rebuild kits). blown out the fuel tank all the 'fuel' that was in there and filled it with fresh gas. replaced all the rubber fuel line, replaced the plugs and set the valve clearances and actually had it running there for a bit. everything sounded pretty good so i thought i had reached the top of the hill. next day i go to run it some more, to help flush the rest of the crappy gas and varnish from the tank and the lines but it wouldn't start. long story short, oops-too late! the valves started hanging open and apparently one got closed (mostly) by the piston :surprised so now i know that i have to at least pull the head off this thing and replace at least one valve. but you know it never stops there.:cross-eye now the car is relatively straight but has some serious cancer on the rocker panel due to the aforementioned snow and salt. otherwise, it's in fairly good condition for a 30+ year old car. now what i have in mind would be to get it running and in good working order and drive it for a couple years like that and then as time and money permit modifiy the crap out of it. with rust under the rockers that is pretty bad, is it worth investing a couple hundred $ in this car? i really have no idea what Z cars go for and how hard/easy it would be to fix the rust. maybe for a couple hundred dollars, it would be worth just driving it until the wheels fell off. whatcha think?

hi all, my name is gary but i go by clutchdust (don't want to tell you how many clutches earns a nickname like that) and i live in las vegas. married, two cats and a dog. i own a '94 chevy truck i use for business and an '81 corvette. the corvette has been my passion since i was a kid. i don't actually own a Z right now, nor have i ever. i have a friends '72 sitting in my driveway though. she parked it a few years ago because of an electrical problem and asked me a few months ago if i could get it running for her. so i've been working on it here and there but it looks like the years of no maintenance while it was running and even less maintenance while it was parked has taken it's toll. still, i've been looking at it for a couple months now and have to admit, it's a good looking car. almost rivals my vette (almost). i think i might just buy this car off her. it's rusting and needs alot of work but for a couple hundred bucks, i don't think it would be a bad deal at all. besides, i'm a grease-under-the-fingernails type and i've already envisioned a 4.3L chevy v-6 with a t-5 tranny in that big, open engine bay. oh yeah! mistressmotorsports, i think i may have met you at some point. i have worked a few SCCA and other races out here and i seem to recall that name.

hey guys, thanks for the input, even if the news isn't what i'd like to hear. i was afraid you were going to say that:ermm: this is a little bit of a new experience for me since i'm used to working on American iron, but engines is engines, right? phred, i'm afraid at this point that it must be a bent valve since i have done like you suggested already and the valve will not come back up. i get no compression on that cylinder and when the engine does run it does really funky things to my vacuum. too bad it wasn't the exhaust instead, at least it would run and be semi-stable. the intake just screws everything all to hell. so the next step as i see it is to talk to my friend and see if she wants to invest that kind of additional money in this car. if it were really straight and in very nice condition, there wouldn't be a question. unfortunately, that isn't the case though. she lived in colorado for a time and the winter salt has taken it's toll on the lower rocker panels and the floorboard appears to have been punched in from an improper jacking attempt. i may just offer to get it running and if she doesn't want to pay what the final cost is, i'll buy it from her from what she put into it so far. i did some checking yesterday and it appears i can pull the head and replace a bent valve and springs and all the upper gaskets for >$100. that's not that bad a deal. last set of questions (for this post) is if i do pull the head, as long as i have it off, should i have it milled? and how much will this bump compression? would it be worth it? if i do get this car i want it to be a little terror untill i can drop in my SBC:devious: