Zed Head

More interesting at this point might be what whoever wrote the Nissan Restoration Checklist meant by "cad". How do we find out who wrote that thing? Doesn't one of the "shop" guys have old correspondence? Email was a thing in 1996. I had a Eudora account. I wonder if they deferred to Wick Humble. Looks like he's still around. https://www.linkedin.com/in/wick-humble-784154133/ https://www.facebook.com/wick.humble/

It seems clear that the basic disagreement here is about whether or not reality could possibly deviate from Nissan's specification documents. People who have actually worked in or been close to a high volume manufacturing process are much more likely to accept (in my opinion, having been both) the premise that "out of spec" parts could make it on to a 240Z. Because deviation happens. HS30-H is unwilling to accept that or unable to comprehend it. He always goes back to the piece of paper that describes what is supposed to happen. The product, the 240Z, is what really happened. So in essence, one side is saying "that's a possibility". The other is saying "that's impossible". Without somebody having some parts tested, there's really no resolution, if that would even help. One possible scenario is that a supplier asked to send the "old style" hardware, for whatever reason, as a deviation. It's still a thing today, see link below. Documents should be in the QC/QA department. Maybe somebody that worked at Nissan in the 70's is out there and can add some real-world recollections. Or maybe original documentation from an actual 240Z assembly line can be found, except of course it would only help one side of the argument if it showed a deviation. Absence of evidence and all that. This wouldn't be a mistake and it wouldn't be hidden. Just normal manufacturing practice, because stuff happens and the assembly line needs to keep going. Section C seems to fit. Ship it! https://www.densomedia-na.com/wp-content/uploads/SQA-Manual.pdf "Deviation request and form (can be hard copy or electronic) will be initiated and filled by the supplier as per the following criteria: a) Parts/materials which when incorporated into the product are deemed to affect product performance durability and installation in customer application and which therefore require rework and adjustments. (Testing and evaluation required.) b) Parts/materials which when incorporated into the product are deemed to affect product performance, durability and installation in customer application, however can be used as is without requiring rework or special adjustment. (Testing and evaluation required.) c) Parts/materials which are unacceptable per relevant inspection standards, but which when incorporated into the product, are deemed not to affect product performance, durability, and installation in customer application. (Testing and evaluation required.)"

That's a philosophical question. No simple answer... It wasn't just a materials lab. It was a very reputable high tech company that he worked for, that had its own internal materials lab. Very common for large research-based corporations. And, you can see that he's not claiming that all 240Z hardware was cadmium-plated. He's suggesting that some of it might be. He writes very clearly. I think that his words have been distorted a bit throughout the cadmium conversation, trying to make a gray situation black and white. Sometimes you just have to live with the uncertainty. And be careful, as Carl suggests, if you're not certain. There might be cadmium. Our History

I wonder why the seller doesn't at least blow the crap off of the car. Looks like the tires are holding air, he could even roll it out the front of the shed/garage. Looks like they're going for the "barn find" mystique. Or hiding the Earl Scheib paint job. Weird stuff.

You wrote it yourself. Up above where you showed that cadmium was used through 1964. Cadmium was commonly used as a plating material in the automotive industry. It was so common that the shortened "cad" was used to describe plated parts. The problem is that the transition away from cadmium has not been clearly communicated. And assumptions have been made, like the claim that cadmium was banned in Japan. No written documentation of that seems to exist, for the time frame of the transition. The transition away from cadmium seems to be more anticipatory, expecting future bans, or limiting future liability. It was a choice, and therefore there was no regulatory reason not to use it. Ran out of zinc-plated stock? Use the old cad stuff. It's legal. Write up a QA exception. (Manufacturing world realities). The open question is about the parts that Carl Beck had tested at Honeywell. Did they come from a 240Z? Were they original to the 240Z? How did they get there? Possibilities have been proposed. Nobody has said that all 240Z's used cadmium-plated parts. Only that cadmium-plated parts were found on a 240Z. Not the same thing. The cadmium question exits on other car forums. Just as entertaining. Lots of misinformation. https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/164007-metalurgists-educate-me-please.html

If you're logged in is it easy to make the pictures bigger? I can only see the small ones unless I open them in a new tab. Facebook is clunky. Looks like a dash cap. Another seller that doesn't know what they're looking at?

I was just preemptively trying to avoid a digression. It felt like we were making some progress in the discussion. I'm still curious about the test results that Carl Beck got. Could a supplier have replated cadmium plated hardware? We now know what Nissan specified but is it possible that there is actually cadmium-containing hardware out there? Doesn't look like they said avoid cadmium, they just specified a different finish. I assume that Nissan outsourced that type of work, that they didn't have a plating operation of their own.

cgsheen was letting people know that the new Nissan fan he bought flexed and let the blades get pulled in to his radiator. That's a concern to be aware of. Maybe the replacment fans are more flexible than factory issued fans. I was responding to suggest that maybe it was his fan clutch that caused it, not the qualities of the fan. Could also be that his Koyo radiator did not flow as much air as the factory radiator and this caused a lower pressure inside the fan shroud. Just trying to save darom's radiator.

That was for @cgsheen1 Maybe the fan speed was higher than design, from a stuck fan clutch, causing more blade flex in to the radiator.

Nobody's taken the bait yet though.

The seller seems like a bald-faced liar. How do all of those spider webs stay intact if the engine ran for even a few seconds? It has the classic "sheep-skin" seat covers. "This is an early VIN (HLS30-10683) Series 1 240Z, built in late 1969, ... This is an unrestored, preserved survivor — a prime candidate for either a light cosmetic restoration or to keep as an authentic time capsule. Driving & Mechanical: Engine turns freely and runs, though due to extended storage, it is recommended that the buyer perform a full service before regular driving. All original mechanical components remain intact. Documentation: Original mileage verified through ownership history."

Do you think your fan clutch (Tem-coupling) was working correctly? Supposed to hold fan speed in a narrow range.

The writer's version. People have their unique talents. Three Dog Night made it work.

Did I post this one already? Twice can't hurt...

I checked the parts site and it looks like Nissan new might be available. You never know. Also stumbled across this "Motor Fan" option. Electric. Never knew. https://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsun/Z-1969-1978/engine-280z/water-pump-fan/11 https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts/nissan-blade-fan~21060-n3600.html The motor fan assembly includes a coolant hose fitting and temperature switch. Datsun Z Motor Fan L28E (Option)

I don't know anything about ZCD's fans (no link provided) but @Terrapin Z might have an original fan in good condition. Yours does look in bad shape, although I've never heard of a plastic Datsun fan exploding.

The author is the founder of the magazine. "Ben Branch has been a professional writer for the better part of 20 years, starting out as a contributor and columnist for print publications like Time Out Magazine. As the digital era came of age and print publications (mostly) disappeared, Ben switched to writing for established online publications, then founded Silodrome in 2010. ... If you would like to contact Ben regarding his work here or just touch base with him, you can reach out to the Silodrome team via our official Contact Us page here. " SilodromeBen Branch - Author PageBen Branch has been a professional writer for the better part of 20 years, starting out as a contributor and columnist for print publications like

Forgot to say, it looks like the most awesome mouse house ever. Has to be full of mouse excretions. Wear a mask, hantavirus is still out there.

Good information. Thanks for the followup. There was none, now there is some. Well done.

I sent the barn find seller a message through eBay. I also sent a message to the Silodrome publication pointing out the manufacturing date. The author of that article apparently didn't even look at his own pictures. I think the eBay seller might just be a consignment shop. Doesn't really know what they're selling, and is selling the hype instead. Very weird that the person sells mostly $5 to $30 stuff and suddenly has a $50,000 item up. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?item=226925718575&rt=nc&_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211&_ssn=auctionhouse-25 From eBay discussion: New message from: auctionhouse-25 (6) Okay, thank you for the information Reply Your previous message It's well known in the 240Z world that the VIN's vary. Just trying to help you out. Nissan stamps the Manufacture date on the plate as the car is being manufactured. It was built in late 1970. That's just the reality. Good luck. the ID plate clearly shows that the date of manufacture is 9/70, not 1969 auctionhouse-25: VIN HLS30-10683 please look up the vin # Your previous message Hey, the ID plate clearly shows that the date of manufacture is 9/70, not 1969. 1970 Datsun 240Z

No good deed... ☹️

What are you getting?

I was looking for a before and after within Nissan Motor company or the Japanese auto industry as a whole. If Nissan never used cadmium then it seems illogical that they would start in 1969. The S30 is just another car of course. The same fasteners were certainly used across the model range. If they used cadmium in 1965 on a different model, you'd expect them to keep using it on the S30 unless they had a reason to change. When was the shift? And, on your final point there - still no evidence that supports your statement, besides a Nissan document that identifies an alternative plating material. If you had a document that showed cadmium from earlier years next to your document that shows zinc, that would have some weight. Evidence that Nissan removed the word cadmium from their documents would be telling. So far, there have been many many words written on sparse evidence. 1970 was so long ago. All of that paper and ink. How did they get anything done?

Taking sides doesn't lead to learning. Independent thought does. HS30-H might be trying to influence 26th-Z, or just expressing surprise. After roaming the electronic wasteland I finally decided to see what one of the AI models would generate, even though I really hate how you can't do a simple Google search today without AI butting in with an opinion. Supposedly they collect all of the available data on the WWW and distill it down to its essence. BS of course since processed garbage is still garbage. But it did come up with an interesting comment. In this case the absence of evidence is actually telling. The great AI large language scavenger found nothing. But, of course, I also found evidence of a ban, showing the weakness of today's "AI". In 2007, last link below. https://www.google.com/search?q=when+was+cadmium+banned+in+japan JAMA document with an interesting note. https://www.jama.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/The-Motor-Industry-of-Japan-2014.pdf

The point was that cadmium is still being used to plate parts for old cars. Zeddsaver is just an example.