argniest

You asked for it, you got it. Here is what I can tell you about my car. I have a 1978 280Z car, stock everything. I am not a mechanic just so you know. Am anxious and willing to learn everything that I can to work on my Z baby. I am reading the EFI bible and FSM as much as I can to learn about things. I just want to car to run safely. Dont need it to be extra fast or extra economy. Just to run close to specs and also without the darn smell that I have to endure right now. The car drives OK. But I feel it has definately more power to give. And other mechanics are telling me that too. Two separate mechanics have looked at car and worked on it for me, and driven it. Here are some facts about....let the book begin I always use premium 93 octone BP gas (non ethynol) After we had new plugs and oil and tweaked the AFM, I was able to lay some rubber on the pavement. Before that, I really dont think it had nearly enough ooomph to even do that. Unless you reallllllllly tried hard, I suppose then you could have. But it felt like a real dog at first. 0. The #6,5,4 plugs seem to get really fouled up (they are black and kind of wet looking, especially #6) even after 75 to 100 mile drive on new plugs, and #3,2,1 look powder grey or brown (and both mechanics said that #3,2,1 were burning pretty normally) 1. fuel injectors are old and should be replaced. I think number 6 fuel injector may not even be working correctly according to one mechanic. He said after 30 seconds of driving in 1st and 2nd gear, that we were only driving on 5 cylinders. This is my relative who has been working on imports since the 70's. And also he said because of that, it wont be getting as good as gas mileage of course. 2. all electrical connections that make sense, need to be cleaned, and grounds need to be cleaned. I am doing that now. 3. I feel that once that happens, it is going to change how the car runs (better or worse dont know) 4. The old JECS air flow meter has both screws turned all the way down. I didnt do that, that is how the car was. Here is the article http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/afm/index.html 5. I have a new AFM, but when I put it on there and drove a little bit, it ran like crap. I realize the AFM is complicated (for me anyway) and lots of tweaking that can be done (based on an article someone on here told me about). So for now, I have the old one on there. 6.It burns about 3/4 of a quart of oil in 1000 miles. Because I drove it that far over the summer....for better or worse. I base that on the fact I drove about 1000 miles in the summer, and it used about 3/4 from H to L mark on the dipstick. 7. Did compression tests on it and leak down tests. Basically the mechanic who did those told me my rings/seals are bad (or at least getting bad) and therefore wanted to rebuild/refresh the engine. The psi for compression was 125 in 4 cylinders and 135 in two of them. None of them adjacent to each other. I dont remember exact results of leak down tests, except he said the car has piston ring issues that need to be replaced. I read in the FSM, that the new compression was like 165-178 psi or so...going from memory those are the numbers I remember. 8. Got new water temp sensor in there. That helped it run a little better for sure. 9. When I drive it, the gas mileage averages 11 to 17 mpg. Its 11mpg when plugs are fouled up, and got about 17mpg when I had put in new plugs and new oil. 10. When I drive it, there is a big time smell surrounding the car. I dont know if its a gas smell or exhaust. but it sort of seems like a gas smell to me. if windows are up, I dont smell anything. But if the windows are down, watch out. Youre eyes will be burning in about 5 minutes. This is a very big concern of mine. Does it mean its running too rich or too lean...I wish I really knew that for sure. 11. All spark plug wires are new/newer. They LOOK new to me anyway. 12. Not that this has anything to do with the engine but here goes: the transmission was rebuilt, the differential was rebuilt, The brakes re-done, all/most suspension issues have been replaced, all bushings, rubbers etc, has new shocks. The car does ride nicely as far as those things go. My relative did all this work for me. But then we have the engine issues that I am living with right now. 13. When I first start the car, and idle for like 1 minute...it seems to blow a little blue smoke or white smoke, but I cant tell which color it is for sure, but its blowing a little smoke at first. After you start driving, I never really see any other smoke. Even if I stomp on it. No smoke. It did this in the warmer weather/summer, so I know it wasnt just from freezing temps we have now outside. The thought is that the valve seats are bad or going bad, and some oil is getting down there overnight, and burning up the next time its started. 14. Per mechanics request, I used several cans of Sea Foam into the gas tank when I filled up. I do feel it helped give me a little more power. Also I used Star Tron from StarBrite. Another supposedly good fuel additive. 15. The engine always seems to start on the first try, and it idles around 800/900 rpm. However, it does feel to me, that its running kind of rough. I dont know if its missing, backfiring, etc. since I dont know enough about engines. However, I would just say it feels kind of rough. I can see the mirrors on the sides of the car vibrating when its idling. Maybe thats normal ??? I dont know. I never drove in a good running 1978 Z car before. 16. Something I wrote about in another post in this forum, was that on Jan 1st and 3rd this year, the car just died for no reason. Then it turned over, and turned over several times and it would not start. I waited 5 minutes or so, then it started first time. This REALLY scares me, because now its just become unsafe and not reliable and could get me killed because of that happening. I am cleaning all the connections and grounds wherever I can get to. Hopefully that will fix the problem. I dont know if that was because of a faulty fuel pump or electrical delivery problem to the fuel pump, or god knows what. It was 5 to 10 degrees outside both times when that happened. I was driving 20-30 mph or so too, when it happened. All the snow actually melted on our streets which doesnt always happen in the wintertime, then it rained, and I felt it was a good time to drive the car. And that is when it DIED ON ME!!! And remember, it never did this before in the summer or fall. Very depressing. But I am sure it can be fixed. 17. I think this might be related to #16, I felt the car lurch or hesitate for just a split second. And it did it a few times in a row, and then just kept driving along normally. So I thought anyway....And soon after that is when it died. One time it was like 1 minute or two minutes later after that hesitation that it died. This also happened on Jan 1st, 2nd, and 3rd when I was out driving it. I dont know what that hesitation was all about, but again, it NEVER did that in the summer or fall. I am trying to find someone with a CO meter, just so I can get a baseline reading for future reference and comparison (I also read about a procedure is FSM on page ET-8 and ET-9 where its talking about having to enrichen the fuel mix when getting a CO reading....so I am not sure about if that applies to all Z cars or what????). And I recently bought a Innovate AFR meter, so I will be able to take peroidic readings with that...as changes are made. 18. I believe the timing is currently set at specs....10 BTDC. A mechanic adjusted that, when he was playing around with the car one day. The same day he tweaked AFM, took compression readings etc. Although he may have slightly advanced or retarded it. I cant remember for sure. But I know it was fairly close to specs. 19. Valve clearances/valve lash??....Ok now this one is a little fuzzy to me, but the mechanic also pulled the head cover and checked the clearances on the valves. He was saying if they were too tight or loose it could cause problems. He measured them with a gapper tool, and said they seemed fine. And so, he ruled that out, as part of my engine running issues. He put valve cover back on after that and went on to check other stuff. (while valve cover was off) he also checked the timing chain, and said it felt and looked fine to him. This guy worked on Z's for many years before...so I believe him. 20. ALso the exhaust manifold gasket was replaced. I guess the original one was all messed up and some bolts were not tight. But that was all fixed up. 21. Vaccum leaks? I have been told there are not any by a mechanic who checked it with a guage. I didnt see that test myself. I am going to get a guage and start learning how to check that myself. I have also been visually inspecting all hoses (top ...sides... bottom of each hose). I found one tonight that connected to the air regulator (about 5 or 6 inches long hose that had a crack about an inch long in it, but wasnt noticable, until i took the hose off, so I could clean the wire clip on the sensor underneath it. BUt besides that, I dont hear any hissing. And I also found a few things that were missing clamps and added those onto the hoses 22. Oh yeah, I also bought a good quality (that is all I buy) new alternator for the car. High output. Because I will be installing a loud stereo in it, at some point in the future, when all the running problems are behind me. 23. Front bearings were replaced on both sides of car. They were not in good shape. 24. Lastly, I have noticed since wintertime set in, that there are a few electrical problems that have appeared out of no where. NOne of this happened when it was warm. Back passenger side brake light doesnt always work, side marker lights in front dont work (they used to), one of the dash lights doesnt always work (the one on top of speedometer), the head lights dont always come on, but the bright lights always do....the hazard lights dont come on. And I believe there are a few disconnected wires, so the reverse lights dont work. I just havent had time to track that down all the way. But I did find some disconnected wires that I think have to do with the backup lights. All other lights and guages seem to work all the time. And the horn did work too, although I havent beeped it lately So with these kind of ghost electrical problems, I am cleaning all connections. I hope that helps to fix some of these problems I am currently having. Can I get an award for the longest post on this forum???? or maybe a good slap in the face might help too

Yup, I used deoxit D5 to clean the fuse box carefully and polished up/cleaned up with a soft dremel brush on each contact in the fuse box. So yeah, a few of them (the fuses, and most of the metal clips in the fuse box too) looked corroded inside...and yes the car used to get wet before I discovered it had a windshield gasget leak. My relative who works on all those fancy cars, cant always store my Z baby in his garage. He has very expensive cars he is restoring and working on. So one time I went up there to check on the car, and talk to him. I climbed in the drivers seat, and my feet went *sploosh splooosh*. I was horrified slightly. There was a lot of water in the floor. Im not talking about a bath tub, but it was definately getting soaked. The night before we had a wicked thunderstorm, 70mph+ winds and driving rain. Needless to say, after that he kept it inside until after the windshield gasget was fixed. And soon after that it got to come back to my garage. So its not getting wet anymore. So maybe that had soemthing to do with it, and who knows how long that was happening. Thankfully the floor boards were not rotted out...so I think the previous owners must have kept it in a garage. Considering its still in nice shape with very little rust anywhere I removed all old fuses, and replaced with new ones. As I mentioned, I will probably go back and put a little white ox guard on each fuse.

I really like the EFI bible. But being a noob to working on cars, its all very overwhelming. And its not that I am in a hurry, but I do really want it to be drivable to anywhere in the USA if I wanted. I am anxious to learn some things too. I am working on cleaning all connections first of all as people have suggested. All the grounds too. I just got all new fuses in their last night and cleaned up the fuse box. I have new fuel injectors but I am not sticking them in the car, until some of these other things have been addressed first I am hoping I can find a local garage that has a emission analyzer that can tell me my CO levels. Once I get all this stuff cleaned, and see how/what the engine does after that.

baby steps man baby steps....first I want to get my current car running close to specs as I can. Drive it for a while, then look into fancy upgrades :-)

On a 1978 280z can anyone tell me what typical/normal readings from an AFR meter like the innovate LM-1 should be reading at idle, normal driving and under heavier accelaration?

Thank for the pictures and answers. I ended up getting this job done tonight. I bought a bunch of fuses, of ACG and SFE. After I saw the SFE fuses, I could see that they were not going to fit into the 1978 fuse box. OK, will maybe one or two of them might fit, but as the amps went up they got longer. That is how they are designed I learned today. Sooooooooooooo, I ended up buying a bunch of ACG fuses. Once I pulled out all the old ones, they were definately shorter than the new ACG fuses. But after disconnecting the battery, I was able to start popping in new ones to see how they fit. While they seemed longer, I realized after doing this, that the center of the fuse box has a plastic wall in it. Which protects both sides from each other. I didnt notice that the night before When you dont have a lot of experience in these matters, and you are a detailed oriented person like me, when I notice differences like that (shorter vs longer) it makes me a little nervous. Maybe I am too paranoid, but hey, I dont want to do anything bad to my baby. After removing all the fuses, I sprayed some deoxit on all the connections, carefully, then buzzed them with a soft brush in my dremel. The fuse box was definately somewhat corroded. But now, its nice and shiny and clean. Some of those old fuses were whitish-greenish, some had rust spots in them, one of them even looked moist in it (although that could have been an illusion). So I really wanted to replace all of them as soon as possible. Oh well, I am also in the middle of cleaning up all the important connections, with deoxit, and also taking off and cleaning up many of the grounds in the engine area. I really feel like I have to do all this before I do anything else. Because thanks to people on this forum, they have made me aware of how important (VERY important) it is to start with clean connections. And without clean connections, all kinds of whacky and sometime bad problems can and will happen to the old girl. Running Lean, Running Rich crazy electrical problems.... I mean if you have voltage drop because of numerous corroded connections through out a 33 year old car, ITS GOING TO HAVE SOME BAD EFFECTS SOMEWHERE ON THE CAR!!!!! So this all makes logical sense to clean everything that I can, in the connections. OH YEAH, I can easily pop out the fuses and put a little diaelectric grease in each area, if you really think that is necessary. I just dont want to get messy with it, and have it slopped all over the place in the fuse box

I am saying all this in a positive tone, but you may not think so. But I am. :-) OK so, I have called several garages around here, and so far none of them have a CO meter. I dont know how else I can get a CO reading at the tailpipe if I dont have a meter to do it? Do they sell CO meters that a novice like me can purchase and use to help me as I work on the Z car. I would pay for it. I dont mind. I have saved money for toys. Look, my car is 33 years old. And while its in good shape and running OK, I know it needs a lot of TLC. Because I have had a few mechanics look at the engine, listen to it, take some AFR readings, inspect some things, read the spark plugs, pull the head cover, etc.... Its not simple to me at all. The FSM has dozens and dozens of pages of things to check out in the EFI. To me, that is not easy in any way. Look I am not stupid, I am a very good software engineer of large enterprise ready systems used by the military and big corporations, but I have never worked on automobiles except for very minor stuff. I bought the Z car because I love them, but also wanted to learn about how to make it run nicely in the process. All the things you said above, will not be easy at all for me to figure out the first time, and to make sure I am doing it right. Sure after the first time getting all those readings, THEN it will be easy. Eventually, I succeed at what I set out to do. However...with the Z car I need a lot of help and patience to get me through this. This is a big project for me to undertake. I am glad YOU think its easy , maybe you can come up here and help me get it running to spec. So, to answer your question, I like having hands on data that can tell me things. I am used to it, from working with computers and technology all the time. I like the idea of guages, meters, readings, etc

Welllllllll OK mr. serious. :classic: How long are the fuses in your fuse box? Can you give me some specifics to go by here. It would help me. I looked at those charts too (thanks for sending them), and the ACG fuses are longer than every single fuse in my fuse box. Why is that do you figure? Maybe because all the fuses in my z car are original and were made 33 years ago, and maybe they dont make them like that any more. Im not going to stick a square peg in a round hole. I would think someone must make fuses the same length as what my z car needs. Also, a z mechanic told me to use SFE fuses. BUt after reading the chart you sent, that doesnt make sense to me. Because SFE fuses are different lengths. So yeah, I am just trying to figure out what is going on here, and I thought maybe some other Z owner would be able to tell me that, yes, in fact the old fuses were in fact shorter. It doesnt look safe to me to stick these new ACG fuses in the car, they look too long. So I am concerned about it being a safety issue, which is why I am out here asking for advice in the first place

Well the FSM doesnt say anything about what type of fuses to use. Im not trying to make it difficult. I just simply want to know what the correct types, brand of fuses I need. The ACG fuses from all autoparts stores seem too long. Someone on here must know the correct replacement fuses. The SFE fuses as I have seen online, are all different lengths based on amps. Well, all the fuses in my Z fuse box look like the same size. And they are all shorter than ACG fuses...so what to do? This is a catch 22.

It looks like those are showing AFR, which is good to know, but I was also looking for something with an LED readout for my fuel pressure too. Im a computer programmer, so I like having data I can see in real time. I wonder if they make fuel pressure guage that can display its output on an LED, like the guages you mentioned above??? I suppose it must be possible, hey, we put men on the moon didnt we in the 1960's madkaw: you wrote: Think about spending(wideband O2) 200+$ to ideally tune your car . These work on carberated cars as well as Elec fuel injectoed cars too, right? I know thats a dumb question. But I would think they work the same, once the exhaust leaves the engine, who cares how it got that way.... Is this the kind of meter that would be useful to help monitor AFR while I am testing and experimenting with the different systems in the car, as I go along.... http://www.amazon.com/Innovate-LM-1-Digital-Ratio-Meter/dp/B000N8DL4G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1295070641&sr=8-3 Also, they make an exhaust clamp for the LM-1 http://www.amazon.com/Innovate-Motorsports-3728-Exhaust-Cast-Stainless/dp/B000CO9MF8/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_b Then they have the LM-2 http://www.amazon.com/Innovate-Motorsports-3837-Digital-Wideband/dp/B001S7W836/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_img_c hmmmmm which is better or more useful for my sitation ...I am not sure, I will have to read these specs over again. They seem similar to me. Maybe its just the data logging that is a main difference?????

I bought ACG fuses, and they are definatley longer than the few fuses I have pulled out of the Z car. And when I held an ACG fuse up to the z car fuse box, they looked dangerously close if I had inserted two of the ACG fuses into two fuses next to each other in the box. Also the current old fuses in the z car all say 32v on them. And the new ACG fuses say 230v on them I believe (sorry dont have them in front of me right now) I cant believe I have to buy special fuses for the car, and that ACG arent the right ones. I just wasnt expecting that. I am not sure what I am going to do about this right now since no one around here has 10A,15A SFE fuses, but I definaetly want all new fuses in the car. Hopefully someone can clear this up for me. I was suprised to find my existing z car fuses to be shorter than the ACG fuses. But then again, the old z car fuses could be 33 years old. And some of them have rust inside them, and some are coated in white or greenish corrosion!!!!! I was reading on this forum about changing all the fuses, which is what got my attention in the first place. So now I reallllllllllllllllly want to get new ones.!

Sorry, what I was saying that the star brite product was made specifically to help cars like Z cars who dont like ethanol. Besides the other benefits that stuff offers. I will always have some around my garage. :-)

Hey that sounds faily easy to test, for even a dummy like me. I will look it up in the FSM, and give it a try. I will test it several times at different temperatures, and see what I come up with. I have a multimeter, just never needed it for too many things. But now that I have the car ;-) its a different story. I am sure I will be needing it for several things to help troubleshoot SO also, that sounds like in the summer its not even using that, or anytime the outside air temp is above 68 degrees, right? Thanks again!

The FSM for my 1978 Z says there are standard spark plugs and HOT plugs? What is the difference between them? Why use one over the other? They also mentioned cold plugs.....hmmmmmm whats up with them? Thanks

I want to replace all my old fuses in my 1978 Z car to eliminate any potential problems caused with the old fuses. However, I was told that SFE fuses are the correct ones to get for it. However, I checked all kinds of stores and most of them only have ACG fuses, which are longer than the fuses in my fuse box. And also places like Napa and Farm and Fleet only have like 3A, 5A, 7A, 9A, 14A SFE fuses. But they didnt have and dont think the 10A or 15A SFE fuses are even made. What gives???????????? what kind of fuses do I need for my Z car? Thanks

Does that carbon really effect the AFM? Im just wondering. Because I have an old one (a JECS model) on my car and it runs a lot better with that one, than the new one that I bought (and I am of course looking into why that would be the case). But the old one definatley looks pretty black inside. Just wondering if cleaning it out is safe, and if it can really make any difference or not. I dont want to do anything that wouldnt really make a difference. It just gives me one more reason to screw something up. I aint no mechanic...but hey....if cleaning it can help things run closer to specs, then I would definately consider doing it. Do you have a specific product name?

Also, there is a product called StarBrite or Star Brite from Star Tron. A Z mechanic was telling me about that Star Brite stuff. So I ordered some from a marine place in chicagoland. I used to live out there, and I knew of the place listed on the star tron website. It looks like an amazing product. I did use some of it too. It has many benefits, and I really liked the science behind it. Again, who knows how much is fact or fiction or just marketing hype...but a 25+ year Z mechanic told me about it. ANd said its good stuff and some of his customers used it to help clean things up and stablize ethanol based fuels in their Z cars.

Yeah, I have been reading my plugs :-) They are dirty in #6,#5,#4, but #3,#2,#1 seem mostly like they are burning OK. I have electronic fuel injection of course in my 1978 Z car. I took the plugs to my Z mechanic friends too. I am no mechanic, but learning a lot because of my Z car. Which is another reason I bought it. Its a great project to learn on. Of course, there are 100 different reasons why a car is running rich or lean, but if I had a tool on hand. Then I can hook it up, and see in real time the data coming out of the exhaust (I am assuming that is how I can tell for sure) I have some money to spend, and would like to get the kind of device that I can have on hand to do the readings myself. An electronic tool that gives me real time data during idling, driving, accelarate phase of the experience. Just wondered if anyone had a specific brand model type that I should get.

Is there a device that I can buy to tell me if my 78 Z car is running rich or lean? I see people always talking about that. And I dont mind spending the money on a meter/device that I can hook up, stick in the tailpipe, etc to tell me whats going on. Then I will have good data to post out here too as I work through the myriad of issues to get the car back to specs as closely as possible. THANKS!!!

I have been told that the Air temperature sensor in my current (older looking) Air Flow meter is bad. Is there any way I can test it myself to find out if it really is functioning correctly or not? I bought a new refurb AFM, and when I put it on the car, it made it run just horrible. My local Z mechanic was mad at me for putting the new AFM on there, but I really wanted to see how the car ran. Someone else (a relative of mind told me I should try a new AFM and see how that helped the car run). However, now that I have found these forums, I think it was way too premature to get a new AFM. So now I have a new AFM and an old one, and the car definately runs a lot better with the old one. Of course I realize there is an adjustment screw on the AFM. But I dont know how to properly adjust that. my local Z mechanic had a air fuel meter on the tailpipe, and was showing me how the AFR numbers looked with the old one and the new one. He put the old one back on the car before wintertime. I would really like to be 100% if possible if the old one has a bad air temp sensor. thanks

WOW!!! Its nice to see a car in that kind of shape. The engine picture looks great. Good luck on it. I would love to buy a 240z....but I am still dealing with getting my 280Z running normally. And my wife would have to stomp me, if I bought another one right now. he he

What do you mean, if its oxodized? I am not sure what I am looking for when looking at each connector, to be able to be sure 100% if its oxodized. I certainly dont want to screw up a connector for no reason, and then have to worry about replacing it. I am not a solder guru, and would have to learn about that too. I have heard there are lots of wrong techniques for that kind of work. So are you saying it was a bad idea to clean the EFI connectors at each fuel injector? I already know my AFM has been *adjusted*. But there are sooooooooo many reasons right now that the car might not be running perfectly. I know some of them, and other reasons can be because of poor grounds and poor connections. And cleaning connections and grounds is definately something I can work through this winter. Yes, I think its a good idea for me to clean all the recommended connectors in the engine area. And possibly other ones too. I read on this forum that a big whopping percentage of problems can be caused because of bad connections. Im talking about making a car run lean,run rich, and whacky electrical problems all over the place. So this has become a high priority for me to work on now before I do anything else. And also, I am going to replace all my fuses in the fuse box with new fuses. Because some of them could be 33 years old. And they can do funky things too so I have read on this forum.

Where did you get your OEM nissan injectors. Dont tell me nissan still sells them????

I just bought new injectors, o rings, and quick disconnects for my 1978 280z car. I would like to chat with you about this process. It seems fairly straightforward. but then again, I am NOT a mechanic. I am slowly learning how to replace things in my Z car. It sounds like they didnt make very much of a difference though on your vehicle, thats kind of a bummer though. I have been reading more and more on this forum about how the old, tired electrical connections and corrosion can make the car behave like a crazy car on crack. Cause performance problems, running rich, running lean, lights not working, things cutting out...etc So I am in process of cleaning up all main connectors and connections. However I would love to replace my fuel injectors myself in the next few weeks. Pomorza, let me know if you got time to chat with me. Maybe even in the real world on a phone call (gasp)

I got the blue one and an orange one, which I like too. I bought two more and gave them to two other Z people I know. They really liked em :-) I got them on sale too, for like 12$ from mee-nards