Willoughby Z

My experience is different. I drill 9/64 pilot holes- stepping up to 17/64 and/or 21-23/64 holes- all day long in stainless steel pipe and steel I-beams. We have great success with pressure and low RPM. We never use any lubricants and a single bit will drill dozens of holes. Maybe we're just lucky. We teach our helpers- "if it's curling, it's cutting" and is proof that material is being cleared fron the hole. In my opinion, high speeds overheat the bit and it loses it's temper. The relatively low volume of cutting/cooling fluid that you can apply by hand doesn't provide sufficient cooling to be of any use. There are "feed and speed" charts for various drilling applications, I'm just relating my experience, which I have used on automotive bolts, etc. with the same success.

Z train- so having done all of those (check valve, new injectors, CSI) plus the FPR, where wouldyou think the pressure dissipates?

I understand your description of lean vs. rich. characteristics. It seemed to be more descriptive to compare it to a rich condition. The injector holder was a two-piece- phenolic lower/ metal upper assembly. With the injector swap, I installed the new one piece holder. The hot start was worse before and now it's marginally better. That is to say, it would require multiple starter cranking to start and then very rough running, front fire, stalling,etc. Now, it starts with one key turn but runs rough, stumbling, chugging- clears up much quicker. I assumed that the minor improvement was that the new injectors weren't leaking and that the hot start problem was still there because of something else. The hot injector bodies would explain the "something else". I have also read comments regarding winter/ summer fuel blends that are interesting and when I commented earlier about the problem re-occuring, I had not had the problem for a long time- in the late spring I had replaced the thermostat, CTS/thermo time switches, AFM calibration, etc.- assuming that these changes had solved it. No problems all summer. Then in late October, I filled the tank and then just like the snap of my fingers, the hot start issue was back. I've always had the pressure leakdown issue, so my thought was that if I have leaky components and I replace them one at a time, I may solve two problems. I know that opinion is divided (strongly) about fuel pressure leakdown. Many have experienced it and fixed it with some of the changes that I made, others have never had any loss and express the opinion that the rail should never lose pressure- definitely not within a few hours. Some say that they lose pressure, it doesn't matter, " who cares?"... When the pressure reads zero and the engine is cold, or has "rested" from a hot run, the fuel pump pressures the system instantly with a turn of the key and starts easily, so I'm not confident that a momentary switch for priming is the answer- unless the argument that pre-priming cools the rail/injectors is valid. It's just frustrating to not be able to solve the two issues and particularly to be unable to prove/disprove whether they are interrelated.

Not so weird if you view it from the perspective that the car, and likely it's components, are 34 years old with 1000's of operation cycles. Think of how many times the fuel injector solenoids have fired... Electronics of that era are a funny (or not so funny) thing some times.

A link for FSM http://www.xenons30.com/reference.html

Welcome to the forums. First, download the FSM (factory service manual) and the FI "bible". They're free and absolutely mandatory with Z ownership. The flap, or vane, in the AFM- not FSM (see above) moves/ opens when engine rotation causes vacuum or draft which moves a metal rod attached to the vane shaft against one of the contacts of the fuel pump switch. With the key in the "on" position and the switch open, the fuel pump relay is energized, switching the pump on. The vane is not controlled by the throttle/pedal, per se. It is controlled by the vacuum created by engine rotation, as I stated before. There is a black plastic cover on the coil side that can be carefully pried off (usually held by caulk, sealer, glue... depending who's been in there before). Atlantic Z has an awesome write-up on the operation and adjustment/ calibration of the AFM. With pictures and captions and everything! It could be that switch or a fuel pump relay (passenger foot well). You're right in that you don't want to throw part$ at a problem. Get the "books"...

I am interrupting to clarify that the document in your link is most commonly referred to as the fuel injection "bible", which is different than the FSM (factory service manual).

Don't overlook the little straight piece in the same location.

I had the "hot start" problem return this fall. The fuel pressure also dissipates over a few hours after shut-off. The PO removed the stock fuel rail "trombone" pipes and replaced them with a single billet rail. There is a Summit Racing pressure guage on the rail. With engine started and running, there is approx. 29-30 psi. Without vacuum to the FPR- approx 36 psi. I knew that the loss of fuel pressure, over time, can be (a) leaking: - check valve in the fuel pump - cold start valve - FPR - injectors The pump is fairly new, so I added a Parker check valve down stream, between filter outlet and rail inlet. No change. The CSV was original, so I replaced it. No change. The FPR was for a '77-without the stock fuel pipes, there was a blocked off inlet. I found one online for $45, so I replaced it with a'78 model FPR. Tidier. No change. The injectors were original, though they had been refurbed/ flow-tested by an injector service in the last few years, the connectors were getting brittle, so I replaced with new- not reman- Bosch units. No change. The pressure still drops to zero after a few hours. So where else can the fuel go if it can't flow backwards to the tank/pump (check valve) and it can't return through the FPR and the CSV/ injectors are brand new? I'm stumped. The "hot start" issue- engine stumbles and seems to run rich for a few minutes after a 10-20 shutdown having come to full temperature (180) is slightly improved. Before the work done, it was a b*tch to start and keep running for several minutes. Now it starts okay ,just runs a little rough. So there is some improvement. The CTS/ thermotime switches are new, all connectors and grounds have been cleaned and protected ( Caig De-oxit/ dielectric grease, where appropriate). The AAR was removed by PO. Vacuum is within specs, AFM checks out (Atlantic Z bulletins). I welcome any suggestions/ thoughts. Thanks for reading.

Two days ago, I used FastWoman's technique- a piece of extra 5/16" FI hose with a shorter piece of 90deg 3/16" copper tubing centered (end-to-end) in the rubber- worked perfectly. The soggy, weeping hose I replaced was likely original (braided), so my fix should outlast at least as long. For a couple of dollars. Hint: remove AAR and the block underneath- it gives you a little more room to fiddle the hose onto the pipe fittings.

Well said. Find and contact a local Z club- for advice and consultation. "if no one else will say it, I will, 250 HP my a$$." I'll second that. BTW, z boy mn, welcome to the club.

I think the FelPro is a cork/rubber composition. And what Z train said- I've had my cover off numerous times without leakage.

Try "cowl pads" and "fender seals" in the Search, was looking for the answer to the cowl question myself.

Heeeey, did you find that on YouTube?

[collective groan] Good morning, and welcome (assuming you're new to the club). Someone is going to give you this advice sooner or later- download the FSM (factory service manual) for your year/model. Use the "Search" feature and take notes and apply the troubleshooting info you find. There are very knowledgable, skilled owners here- who are very helpful and will advise and guide you just based on your plea. Equally, there are many who would prefer that you educate yourself, apply your new knowledge and request help for the things you don't understand or if you have reached a dead end. What's really fair and will serve you better is to demonstrate that you are willing to invest in more than a car and that you have done your homework first. "Teach 'em to fish and they can feed themselves..."

And to add to 5th's valid comments regarding the use of anti-sieze/ torque specs- engineered applications of hardware, ie washers vs flange nuts, have an effect on torque. That is, a nut "slips', if you will, on a washer whereas there will be greater friction or resistance between the flange nut and the mating surface. Where torque specs are important, the hardware should be correct to the original design or at least compensated for.

More than I paid, as well!

"Wilby" will need a respray in the next couple of years (door dings, chips, surface rust around fuel door). It was already resprayed by a PO 5-6 years ago(?) so I'm past the "all original". I try to keep things authentic for the most part but I prefer the skinny early 240 style. I know that they're not functionally that safe but I like what I like. So when I can afford a quality paint job, I'm going to budget for the body work to accomodate SS reproduction- no rubber, over riders, bars, etc.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?20276-Power-Windows-in-a-70-240Z-!&highlight=power+window+kits also: http://www.spalusa.com/store/main.aspx?p=itemdetail&item=33000030 Hold your breath: http://www.zccjdm.com/catalog.php/azcarbum/dt46936/pd993842/240Z__ZG__G_NOSE__HEADLIGHT_LENSES___JDM.

Awww 5th, now you've just started "bumper wars"! I have the "pay no attention to what sellers say/write..." disease.

ksechler, accepted! The photos were so well done I suspect the photographer was focusing (pun intended) on the serial plate for details/clarity. Off topic, slightly, but wife and I were viewing a photo layout of a very high-end real estate listing and she noticed a pile of dirty laundry on a closet floor, a disposable diaper rolled up, laying on a coffe table. Okay. Photographer missed it composing the shot. Agent missed it during review. Editor missed it prior to publication. Maybe it was all just "reality" marketing. cygnus, Easily understandable to miss a few details in the scope of a project as described by the reseller. You're so right that a little bucket list would help you "bond"!

I started the thread with "Beautiful..." And I'd be proud to own it. Perhaps if I had been more specific about the photographer's decision to show a minor flaw, my comment would have come across less cynical. I was surprised that with the apparent level of engine bay detailing that something so easy to attend to, would have been.

One of many threads... http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?32910-Can-I-flip-stock-mirrors...&highlight=mirrors

Billing statement from Visa reflects that discount was applied to order- though it didn't show on the website invoice at time of order. Thanks MSA!

Thanks, cygnus. I didn't catch the difference (vs. the door jam). As I said before-rivets or not, it was the overlooked detail of rusty hardware. fandsw: very nice! same color as my first, a '77 5-speed, also with dealer installed rear louvre. The dealer (Manassas Datsun) had also added ribbon pinstripes- light green/yellow on the shoulder, starting as pinpoinst at the headlight buckets, increasing in width, with a crossover near the rear corners, going across the hatch. They also threw in a 50% off coupon for wheels. My memory insists that they were Carroll Shelby but searches can't verify that. I've digressed...