superlen

Steve, Great question on the fuel pump relay. Captain is spot on about it. I have control over it via the ECU, but one can always leave the AFM connected and operating the fuel pump if desired. The main reason I wanted to be able to run a MAP sensor in lieu of the AFM is that many AFMs are so old that the wiper for the potentiometer inside them is becoming suspect. I'm truly amazed that they still work as well as the do....or do they? (I have a feeling that many of these old systems are working, but far from as good as they worked in 1975) Running MAP (but leaving the AFM in) would allow someone with a flaky AFM to go ahead and use it, as opposed to pay for a replacement/refurb. Even if someone chose to run Speed- Density because their AFM wiper was suspect, the fuel pump relay connection inside the AFM would still function the same. In that case you wouldn't be able to take advantage of removing the vane restriction out of the airflow. bit I'm not sure it's that a big problem in a stock configuration anyway. Captain, Great minds think alike....or at least yours and mine are. The first pass out the gate will just be the simple stock replacement, but most of the features are just software functions once the hardware has been tested. The load/save/copy tunes I already have from other projects. It's nothing more than a file save/load from the GUI. The GUI will allow you to suck the tune out and write to file, and of course do the opposite as well. I've got the GUI already as I've written it to test/debug the hardware and simulate the control algorithm. I'm traveling this week, but I'll clean it up a little and post a screen shot next week. My thinking on this would be that if you had a tune that worked for your setup, you could post it /email it to someone else that wanted to test it on their similarly configured engine. My mechanical plan is to re-use the stock case and ECU connector. I just assumed the ECU connector was custom for Bosch. (I'll check out the AMP part & have Digikey send me a sample- thanks for the pointer Capt.) I can either re-use existing/or try the AMP (fastest way to start) or tool up a replacement. I have contacts in the plastics molding industry and my company has designed/manufactured several products with multiple plastics, metal enclosures, electronics (our primary line) so tooling up won't be forbidding. It's another cost that I'd rather avoid, but at least not a deal breaker as I have multiple supplier relationships already qualified. That goes for sheet metal, aluminum extrusions, injection molded plastics, pcbs, cables, ect. We source all of these on a daily basis. As for the cases, I'll stock a bunch and can send out on an core exchange basis. The customer won't get their exact case back with that program, but they will have the shortest down time. (Hopefully 10 min) If someone just really wants their own case back, they can send it in, I'll update it and send it back. There's very little machining that I will have to do to the stock case. Just a few holes & I'll laser cut them. The old stock circuit boards of course get scrapped (except for the connector which I'll pull for use on the new circuit boards) Thanks for the interest and ideas. And yes. After three units sold, sales will plummet. Maybe, I'll buy a few more Zs to keep sales going. Superlen

Hello All, I thought I'd start a new thread to get some feedback on my ZFuel project. To recap, I began a tuneable LJet ECM replacement long long ago in the early 90s, stalled out due to life/growing business, and then rekindled it last year when my son was driving a 77 280. He went away (along with car) to college, so again I stalled on development. I'm glad to say that I have the car back now, and I'm excited about getting this unit off the drawing board and into the garage. I think at the rate that AFM's and ECMs are aging, it's long overdue. Here is a quick overview: Standard Features -100% drop in replacement for stock (should be a 10min install - pull kickplate, ecm, unplug old, plug new, hit the starter) -Also can run in Speed-Denisty (MAP) if you wish. This would allow you to nuke the stock AFM. I think this will be handy for anyone who thinks their AFM is suspect with aging wipers) - Realtime data monitoring via USB/Laptop (now you can check the status of those pesky sensors easily) - Internal diagnostics/logging of sensors. - You can of course tune it and adjust the map with the laptop interface. - Run any size injectors you want to plumb in (within reason of course) - Tune for aftermarket performance parts (cam, headers, porting, ect) - Some general purpose I/O for shift lights, ect. - Will have CAN bus output on an optional connector (thinking aftermarket gauges). - Idle air control/quick warmup mode - Support for O2 sensor and closed loop mode. - Run any throttle body and TB sensor you wish. (analog position, or just off-idle/WOT) - copy/save/email tunes back and forth between users. The primary concept is to have it plug-n-play with a bone stock unit, yet still have some flexibility to accommodate other configurations. While one could run it alongside ALL the existing stock equipment, to me the following would be an ideal setup. I say ideal mostly because all the additional plumbing/wiring complexity of the L-Jet under the hood annoys me. - Replace the AFM with a straight pipe and run with the Map sensor. Now, no worries about the aging AFM, no restriction for incoming airflow, no but ugly AFM in the engine compartment with it's 40year old connectors. - Leaky cold start valve? Remove all of this nonsense & the accompanying plumbing/thermo-time switch/wiring. - AAR would be replaced with more modern idle air control. (or just remove it completely if you are in a warmer climate). Well, that's the concept/idea. I'm actively soliciting feedback as to likes/dislikes or things I might have not thought of. Ignition timing is also possible, although I'm going to ignore that aspect on the first pass. Superlen

Longtime, no see fellow ZedHeads. Just wanted to update everyone. My son went off to college with the Z car & I got busy with work and life, so the ZFuel project stalled. The good news is my son is now going to switch cars, so I'll have the Z back again. He wanted something with air conditioning and four doors. What's wrong with the youth today? He did manage to put it in the ditch while texting his girlfriend, so I have some more body work and suspension repair to deal with as well. Oh joy. No one hold their breath, but I should be back motivated and moving forward again in a few weeks. I saw some mention of OBD above and yes it will have OBD. It's tuneable via a usb cable -> laptop, so one will also be able to see all the sensors values & fuel control status on screen in realtime. It will have can bus on it, so in the future I could communicate on that bus to deliver a more industry standard OBD if desired. I have a project at work that keeps coming up to design a controller that hangs on the Can bus & does some fuel controlling/manipulation. This is for an automotive aftermarket company (not related to zcars) & their marketing department still haven't decided if they want to start the project and allocate the funds. Depending on when/if they pull the trigger on that may influence how I implement Zfuel's OBD. BTW, O2 sensor support for closed loop will be available. super(slow)len

I understand on pulling and measuring flow, not hard, but not fun either. You might try adjusting the spring tension (make it tighter) on your AFM to bring it back down. Most of us end up loosening it a tad as we have aged/drifted to a lean setting. This can be done without removing the AFM. Just pop the cover and you can see the wiper/spring as well as the fuel pump relay contacts, ect. As a test, while your car is idling, push/pull the flap with your finger. You will be able to detect the RPMS drop/raise if your going the right direction. Ideally, the rpms should drop if you move the flap either way indicating your AFR is on the money. (at least at idle anyway ) In your case you should see your RPMS go UP a tad when you try to CLOSE the flap a bit. Closing the flap -> indicates less air flow ->less air mass -> less fuel needed to match -> ECU shortens injection time -> creates leaner mixture. Harder to type than to actually do. Lenny

If you strike out on finding numbers/markings you would have to measure the flow. This isn't too hard, but it does require a lot of setup and preparation. The stock injectors are around 180cc/min. If the PO did upgrade, he most likely would have added higher flow injectors to richen up the mixture. All the sensors and the ECU in our cars drift over time. Usually they drift into the lean area, so slightly larger injectors may bring it back to optimal. Most likely it will bring it back too far and into the rich zone. I say this because any power hungry enthusiast isn't going to go "slightly" anything. Since our aging Analog EFI computer has zero feedback & little or no tuneability, any change from stock sensors and injectors can't be compensated for. Is the car running poorly now, or are you just trying to gather information and study? Lenny

If you get stuck, PM me and I'll give you my number. I can talk you through any of the hookup/debug of the EFI. I have been buried in the wiring diagrams and detailed operation of the L-Jet over the last two months while designing a replacement ECM/ECU. -Lenny

@Fast - Yes. I have an auxiliary connector that will let you hook up the following connections. - O2 in - Speed Sensor in (will let us calculate MPG on the fly) - Crank Position Sensor in - 3 ignition outputs (this and crank are because I want to play with wasted spark & run distributerless) - Switched relay driver (earmarked for external fuel pump but could be used for something different) - can bus These will exit on the rear of the housing (pointing at the firewall) with a suitable automotive connector. It is an option you can purchase from the start, or upgrade later. However, if someone upgrades later, I'll ship them the internal cable/connectors & they will have to machine the hole in the back of their case for the connector. If they want that from the start, I'll machine their case on install. Maybe a pigtail with a free-hanging connector would be better as it would only require a 1/2" hole/strain relief. Not as clean, but easier for the owner to add later. Lenny

Go ahead. I dare you! I'ts not set in stone yet, but think $300-$400 for the basic plug and play ECM. I'll offer some options/features as well including a new replacement harness for those that have really suspect connectors and don't want the hassle of chasing down those gremlins. Note: It will look factory, new wires/new connectors and will plug on to the stock components. Sadly, it will probably be the same price as the ECM. I waffle on offering refurbed AFMs. There are already good sources for these for $200, but honestly, if your AFM is questionable, Just buy the basic system and run with the Map Sensor. For best airflow you would replace the AFM with a straight pipe, but you could leave the AFM installed and wired up, the software will just ignore it. If you do that, you will be able to change on the fly between the two modes which I think it pretty cool. Flip a switch and run map, flip it back & your running AFM. - project update (board layout is 50%) Lenny

Fast, For the reasons you stated above, I started a ECU replacement project like that back in 1993. My growing business/life got in the way and I tabled it. SHUDDER, has it been that long. Just a few months ago I finished restoring the car it was earmarked for with my son for him to drive. (77 280) and I decided to go ahead and complete the ECU and offer it commercially. I own an electronic design/manufacturing company so this is what I do every day. Last week I finished the schematics and updated the processor to new 32bit version. We use both Arm7/9 cores and numerous Freescale cores on other projects. I chose a Freescale ColdFire if any EE Geeks are interested. Features -100% drop in replacment for stock (should be a 10min install) -Also can run in Speed-Denisty if you want so you can nuke the AFM. I think this will be handy for anyone who thinks their AFM is suspect) -Realtime data monitoring via USB/Laptop (now you can check the status of those pesky sensors easily) -You can of course tune it and adjust the map if you want. -run any size injectors you want to plumb in (within reason of course) -tune for aftermarket performance parts (cam, headers, porting, ect) -some general purpose I/O for shift lights, ect. (don't know if anyone really cares about this, but hey, it's easy) -Will have CAN bus output on an optional connector (thinking aftermarket gauges). -copy/save/email tunes back and forth between users. It should be pretty sweet. Iv'e been working on the Windows Interface, and I'll have the board layout done next week. When I get something interesting to show the group, I'll post some vids to garner some interest and solicit some feedback. I think the market is about 10 units, so I'm pretty sure I'm working for $0.38/hr or less. Lenny

Whats the flow rate on the Fj707Ts? The stocks are 180cc/min or just a little higher.

For cleaning the connectors, plain white vinegar works well too if you don't have deoxit close by. Also, buy some of the replacement connector off ebay and change them out. Your old ones I'm sure are brittle. Don't cut and splice though, just remove the two pins from the old connector. (clean them with your contact cleaner of choice) and then stuff them into the new connectors. It makes a fast nice looking install. Much better than soldered lumpy heat shrink look. BTW. You will have to use a really small screwdriver to release the tabs that hold the pins in the connector. If I get time this weekend, I'll take some pics and post. Lenny

I realize its a five year old post, but for the sake of others searching. On a 77, the voltage regulator is external. It's tucked away behind the bracket that holds the fusible links. Hard to see, but it's there. - lenny

Sticking caliper? What did they look like when you put in new pads?

Great timing on the post! My son's z still has some primer overspray from the painter on the gauge faces. I was wondering what would clean it & not damage the plastic. The Forum rocks once again. Thanks. Lenny

Zed, I was just checking back on this thread to add that the START signal will also turn on the pump regardless of air vane. I wasn't quick enough, and you busted me already. To clarify once again for posterity: Either of the these two conditions will turn on your fuel pump. 1) The air flow vane is moved off of it's at rest position. 2) The key is in the "start" position. Sorry for the confusion. Lenny Lenny

The FPR does. Pump has the ability to generate about 60psi if I remember correctly. The FPR holds this to 36psi.

Also, there is no pressure switch to electrically monitor the fuel rail pressure. The pump runs when the air vane is being sucked open by air. The pump shuts off when the air vane closes. From your description, I think your fuel pump circuit is working ok. I agree with ZedNoggin and think that your losing pressure after it sits. (leaky cold start injector, leaky primary injectors, regulator, ect). Search for pressure gage in the EFI forum and you'll come up with the quick/easy fuel pressure gage to connect to monitor. Once you have a gage on there, you can prove/disprove the leak down easily. Lenny

FYI. The fuel pump turns on when the air vane in the AFM moves off it's at rest position. (There's a switch in it specifically for the fuel pump circuit) So you won't hear the fuel pump when turning the ignition to on, only when you try to start and the pistons take their first few breaths and cause the air vane to move will the pump turn on. The above isn't your problem I don't think, but just wanted to add some more information about how the fuel pump circuit operates. Lenny

Mine's gone. It got scrapped at the painters.

I have one....maybe. We are just finishing up my son's 77 and he isn't running the rear bumper. I need to locate it. If I can find it, it's yours. However, I agree with cozye. Unless yours is *really* tweaked, it's probably less time to straighten it than it would take to find mine/pack/ship/recieve/fix tabs/ect. I haven't seen it at my shop, but it could still be at my painter's shop...or scrapped. Len

One more piece of advise I have after reading some of your post... "This week the girlfriend and I spent a couple days scraping, scrubbing and washing every nook and cranny of the engine that we could clean .." Propose before she gets away. Len

What about an intermittent vacuum leak...like when you went around that corner, something shifted out of place, air leak, cough sputter, then it sealed back up???

+1 to what Blue said. Just plug it off and remove the other stuff for a much cleaner look on the intake. Plus far fewer places for a water leak & rotten hosery. Now, if you lived in Fargo..... Len

Looks like he's just excited to get started. He clearly states he has one on order. I own two copies of that book...somewhere. They are packed away for a remodel. If there was a .pdf floating around on the net, I would readily download it just to have another method to access it by or have an electronic version to cut/paste/share with someone needing help with a specific problem. I understand that some people get picky about sharing copyright materials, but I'm a subscriber to the 90/10 rule. If 90% of the people pay for it, I'm ok letting 10% ride for free. I'm usually in the 90% group, but don't have a problem being in the 10% group when it's handy. Len