Captain Obvious

Sorry... I wasn't clear enough. There are other problems besides the soldering iron melting. The missing flapper door at the bottom won't do you any good without the front hinge mount. It's supposed to be part of the heater core cover as well, but that corner of the cover has been gnawed off. And there's material removed from the main air box in the same area. Like the front screw to hold the heater core cover in place stripped out and they chewed off the corner of the cover and air box in that area in a non-gentle way to get that cover off. Speculation. If that doesn't make sense, let me know and I can post some pics. In any event, I believe the main air box could be salvaged, but I think you're in the market for a replacement heater core cover. Or... You could just silicone that side flappy door shut with silicone. Here's the thread about installing the water control valve in the engine compartment. The pic links are all dead because of photobucket's extortion, but I'll upload new pics when I get a few more minutes. In the meantime... Here's the link: https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/44009-heater-water-****-valve-relocation-project/

Thanks for the pics. Again, it seems the only problem cylinders (so far) are those "L" marked aftermarket versions. Both of those cylinders are brand new. I just think Wagner was private labeling the Tokico parts (at some time). Not really sure why since they had their own casting, but that's what it looks like to me. I have no idea which came first... Did Wagner private label the Tokico for some time and then decide there was more money in building their own mold and cutting Tokico out? Or did they build their own mold and offer a cast iron variety for a while before deciding for some reason that they didn't want to do that anymore and started private labeling the Tokicos instead? Mysteries that may never be solved, but the bottom line for me is that both of these cylinders can be rebuilt, while what I have on my car currently, cannot.

Here's that recent thread about the clutch pedal pivot pin: https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/60310-squeaky-clutch-pedal-and-clevis-pin/

Well there's certainly some questions to be answered there. Both that heater core cover and the main airbox itself look to have been "modified" at some point. That cover looks like it was melted with a hot poker, and the whole front mounting screw area has been sawed off. You know... The section that originally contained the front hinge for the flapper door at the bottom. Without that hinge, someone might resort to completely removing that door and silicone-ing the whole door shut permanently and cutting a small hole above it instead. On the bright side of things... The cars that did not have A/C are a whole lot simpler than the ones that did. You don't have any vacuum controls or related solenoid valves, etc.

Haha! Well if someone wants to set something up, I'd be happy to participate! Not sure I'm qualified, but I can twiddle some knobs and stuff!

And my old "L" logo cylinders... I bought that pair from Rockauto some time ago, and they were AUTOSPECIALTY / KELSEY-HAYES W51104 and while there are no markings on the cylinders themselves, the box said "Made in China". Oh, and forgot... The other side of the Tokico has "Japan" cast into it.

Where were they made? Interesting story... The labeling on the one box which contained the Tokico cylinder looks like this. Has made in Japan on it in a couple locations. On both the UPC label with the Wagner P/N: And another sticker elsewhere on the box: The OTHER cylinder... Made by Wagner in a Wagner box. Clearly has "Wagner U.S.A." cast into the cylinder body: And interestingly, there is no "made in Japan" sticker on the back of the box, and the UPC label looks like this: I you look at that UPC sticker at the correct angle under the correct light, you can see that it says "Japan" under the black marker. I don't know who obscured the label, or how many years ago, but it's certainly interesting.

What's with the hole in the heater core cover? Looks like someone cut the cover at one time? Presumably to use a different heater core with a tube in a different location maybe?

I agree 1000%. I never ever realized the huge list of small refinement changes that were made along the way until I started hanging out here and learning. I assume all the refinements did come with a weight penalty, but I'd be curious as to how much that really was. Couple hundred pounds maybe? So about the heater valve... That valve is stock and that copper tube is a temperature sensor. It works in conjunction with the valve to limit the upper end of temperature. I don't know what temp they had it set for, but they were trying to regulate the temperature of the air and cap it at an upper limit. As the air heats up, it heats up that coil inside the air box. And the gas trapped (or was trapped at some time) inside that tube expands. When that gas expands, it closes down the valve a little, thereby regulating the temperature. My original valve was dead (as yours is probably as well), and that's why I went with the generic ball valve. As part of that whole process, I found the ball valve (which opens to a full bore flow) passes way more water than desired and the heater core gets way hotter than necessary. I found that I always used the bottom 10% of the temperature control, even on cold days. That's why I put a second valve that I set and forget to limit the upper end.

Update... I purchased a couple wheel cylinders off ebay, and at this time I've got a Tokico (which uses an aluminum body) and a Wagner (which uses a cast iron body). Interesting to note, however that both of these cylinders were in Wagner boxes, even though one of them is a private labeled Tokico. Here's a pic of the two with one of the pistons pulled out of each: And looking closely at the seals they used, both of these cylinders could easily be rebuilt by the plethora of rebuild kits available everywhere. I didn't pull the seals off the pistons because of the damage risk, but here's a close-up where you can see how deep the seal goes onto the piston. They clearly use the smaller holed seals. This is the Wagner branded piston: And this is the piston from the Tokico branded piston. Note the dried up crusty grease from sitting on someone shelf for decades: So... As far as the whole rebuilding process, it's starting to look like many of the wheel cylinders out there can easily be rebuilt with the ubiquitous rebuild kits, and so far the only ones that CAN'T are the ones that are (and were) on my car. I don't know who the manufacturer is of these cylinders with the "L" logo, but they are the only ones I've found so far that will not work with the rebuild kits. If you want to be able to rebuild your cylinders in the future, avoid these made in China versions:

True, but the only thing most people would care about is peak HP. Maybe you could convince them that the power stab transition is important, but other than that?

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the polishing either, but I couldn't rightly flag that as a "flaw" since it's a style choice. Valve cover, oil fill cap, carb bodies, backfire valve polished... I personally don't care for any of that. I'd love to participate in that dyno test to compare round tops to flat tops, so if you hear of something like that brewing, let me know! It's not necessarily going to show anything though since the dyno test is just running full bore output at WOT. Under those conditions, you're not using many of the technological improvements of the flat tops and both sets of carbs should easily be able to be tuned to produce the same results. It's kind of a "static" test. In theory, the flat tops should shine in other areas like idle cleanliness, mixture consistency under varying operating conditions, gas mileage, and transition power on pedal stab. None of that would show up on a dyno test.

That wooden "tool" looks very similar to what I did as well. Mine's shorter though, and I screwed a couple blocks to the ends that I can squeeze together with my vise. I lost leverage because my planks are shorter, but I gained force by being able to put it in my large bench vise.

Jayhawk, That's a beautiful flat top pic. Is that yours some many years ago? I looked it over pretty closely, and the only fault I can find is the failed insulation on the throttle opener and EGR solenoids. That's the only little nit-picking issue I could come up with! I think it's a whole bunch of things. The extra pollution controls, the more complex throttle opener system, the more complex idle mixture adjustments, the power valve, the water running through the carb bodies. All the extra plumbing associated with all that stuff. A whole host of things. Capped off by the fact that you can't compensate for faults elsewhere by adjusting the nozzle depth like you could on the round tops. You have to get things right... You can't just cover them up like you could with the round tops.

What'cha testing? Besides your previously disclosed rust test...

LOL. And it's exactly this kind of claim that I'm talking about when I said the damage to the reputation is already done, and (I believe) is irreversible.

Agreed. And the damage to the reputation is already done, and (I believe) is irreversible. So, that 2+2 you posted about... I don't know anything about cars that were stock gear in other countries, but that 2+2 would not have had all the pollution equipment in the US. If it were here, it would have had EGR, and throttle opener, just at quick glance. And air injection with the pump. So if you think flat tops were complicated in your part of the world, you aint seen nothing! So how long did the flat tops run in Australia? I assume they started in 73 just like they did in the US, but here they stopped in 74. In Australia (and elsewhere in the world), they ran the flat tops for a number of years beyond 74, didn't they?

Well if yours is like mine, (and based on your description of slathered silicone grease, I bet it is) then you absolutely need to degrease first. And even so, I wouldn't be surprised if you don't get some fish-eye like I did. With that much silicone floating around, I think it's inevitable. Did you split the clamshell open, or are you just working on the parts you can get to from the outside?

Haha! Agreed!

Nice video. Is that the definition of too much time on your hands?

Nice work! Certainly can't be worse than the original pitted finish! From my brief foray into that realm, I found that front vacuum seal had significant compliance and held pretty snug against the shaft. You should be able to tell how much metal you removed by comparing your sanded one to the originals. The JB weld rod looks nasty. Like someone grabbed it with pliers at some point. And the one you have labeled "unknown"? I don't think that's zinc plating. I think someone sand blasted it. That one may clean up nice with the sandpaper treatment.

There are several technological advances built into the flat tops, but as always... With more technology, comes more complexity. And attention to detail is paramount. I'll never expect a huge groundswell of flat top love and people ditching their round tops to replace them with flat tops, but I do believe that if they are working properly, the flat tops are better carbs. However, because of the additional complexity, you must be willing to put in the time and effort to set them up right and keep them that way.

They will all do that eventually. It's because of the stress riser where the potting ends and the way they bent the wire to make connection to the harness. If you've got a usable one now, I would recommend you pot some more of the wire and move that stress riser further from the solenoid.

Certainly good enough so you at least don't have to winch it onto a trailer. Awesome! You've probably got 30 somewhat dirty and corroded connections (some of which are in the fuel injection system), and probably 30 small vacuum leaks in various places. You got it running, but getting them to run great is in the details. I have no idea what's going on with the whine at 3000 RPM, but there isn't anything in the tranny that should cap acceleration like that. I'd be interested in hearing more about that issue once you get it home. Does SWMBO know it's coming?

Thanks bud. Appreciate the help. I did some digging around and I've turned up a couple of the cast iron versions. Now I have to wait a couple days while paypal uses my money for free. I didn't notice, but my acct had gone too low to pay for the wheel cylinders. As soon as they are done fondling my dollars, I'll buy some cylinders. I'm hoping the cast iron versions used the smaller hole seals. So in the event that I have to go through this again, I'll have the correct rebuild parts next time. @madkaw, Did your old ones turn up? Or did they leave the premises?