z boy mn

Seems a bad idea to have things that close if I can make it fit somewhat better. I'll start with rounding off the ends and see how it goes. Thanks for your help, Chickenman!

Chickenman, thanks again for your feedback, I never thought about how the distance changes when the wheels are suspended. Of course, this means if I could get the bar in with the car on the ground, every time I lifted it the bar would rub on the struts...so I like the idea of rounding off the ends for a little more clearance and modifying the bar some so it doesn't happen. I noticed on the stock bar, for example, the ends weren't exactly parallel...I bet it bent because I keep lifting the car off the ground to do work and it was rubbing. Still, it would make a lot more sense just to have a shorter bar (more like stock size) with rounded corner tabs. I talked to the welding instructor at the college where I work (teaching English), and I think we'd only need to add a degree or so to the final bend (which is about 90 degrees) to make it fit properly.

Hey everyone, I'm having a basic sway-bar problem, and I can't figure out if it's me or MSA. About a month ago, I bought this sway bar kit from MSA. http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/23-4101 It arrived and looked great. A friend and I installed the rear one first, thinking that would be the hardest one, and it took a few hours but it all went smoothly. Then, we got to the front sway bar and it wouldn't fit as it was too wide for the strut towers. We measured it against the stock bar (as you can see) and it's about 1.25 inches wider, and it won't fit (it hits both sides). I called MSA and they checked all their sway bars and they were all 41", but clearly it's longer than my stock bar. They also said they haven't gotten any other complaints or returns. One technician said he took one home and will see how it fits his own vehicle on his own time, but he hasn't had a chance to try it yet. I'm not eager to return both bars (they only come as a kit) as the rear one is installed and I want it. It might help to know that the front suspension is stock except for the torsion kit (from MSA), camber bushings (from MSA), and the progressive springs (Eibach, from MSA)...could it be something else? Is it possible I'm doing something wrong? It IS longer than stock, but maybe it should fit anyway? Does anyone have another stock bar lying around you could measure? Anyone else have trouble with these bars? Finally, if MSA says it's my problem, I'm probably going to try and make this one work...so, suggestions on bending it (I know it's spring steel) so it fits? Stumped in MN (and cold)!

I wanted to post an update to my last post regarding the availability of NKG plugs. I hadn't heard from O'Reilly's so I called them and asked about my special order. The person on the phone sounded confused and went back to check. He had a full set of BPR6ES's, BP6ES's, BPR7ES's, and BP78ES's on the shelf and said they were all standard stock items. So, looks like they're going to be available for the foreseeable future...sorry for the mis-information!

Hi again, Chickenman, thanks for the info. Clearly, I'm a novice and can only imagine how to adjust "squish" and "swirl" characteristics, but I'm learning! When my car gets past 16 on the AFR it hesitates badly. I experienced this on the freeway at a constant 70mph....it jerked even at the constant speed/load. This was before I had the AFR in and realized it was so lean. Once I got different idle jets in there, it dropped down and seems much happier. Maybe it's another issue, though? Also, very helpful information on the wires and plugs. The wires came from MSA and the PO bought them. I can add replacing them to the list while I learn more about how they're made. I did make an order over the weekend for some BP6ES plugs, and they're on back-order now at O'Reilly's. Now I'm thinking maybe I should keep the "R". How much difference do you think it will make in spark? Incidentally, they also said the BP7ES plugs aren't available anymore, though I did find them other places. So...just a heads up, seems that NKG may be discontinuing the cooler options or maybe they'll just become harder to get. They recommended I order a bunch if they're the right ones. I'll see how the BP6ES's feel, and if I like them I'll order a pile just in case. Also, I just added Vizard's book to my Amazon list (one of the places I found the BP7ES plugs, BTW), I'm looking forward to as many tricks as I can get! :-D

Wow, thanks for all the feedback everyone! And, sounds like I was going to guess wrong on the plug options so thanks for saving my engine. A few comments/follow-ups... The engine is new, and it doesn't burn any oil. I do have an AFR gauge (installed last winter), and it really helped tune up the webers. Before, I was reading the plugs and I had it tuned pretty well, I thought, with just a slight hesitation through the progressive circuit. When I got the AFR hooked up, I could see that it was actually leaning way out in the progressive circuit, jumping to 18-20. It was also running a but lean after 3K, so I adjusted the idle and main jets until it is even throughout. At idle (~700 rpm), it runs around 10, but anything past 1200-1500 or so it's in the 12-13 range. If I turn in the mixture screws, it's better at idle but leans out again in the progressive circuit. Also, cruising at 55-60mph ends up on the lean side, too (15) and I'd rather burn more fuel than risk the engine. (I thought about drilling out the progressive circuit holes some, but I simply chickened out. ) I have heard that the AFR gauges aren't always accurate and that they become less accurate over time. I put in an Innovate 3844 model has a Bosc oxy sensor and a meter which you can re-calbrate to compensate for hours of use, and I like it. The seat-of-the-pants gauge says the car is happier, too. As for two the bad plugs in a row, I couldn't believe it either, which is why it took me so long to figure it out. The HPX ignition is great, especially for a novice like me. It just wires up to power (I have it on a separate circuit straight to the battery so the power is clean) and then goes directly to the plugs. It's an older model, so you can't attach a computer to it, but there are 4 knobs for adjusting timing at 0-2999, 3K, 8K, and an rpm limiter. Right now, the initial timing's set at 12 and goes to 24 after 3K. I think I will try a larger gap with the BP6 as well...makes sense to me. Also, it has 8mm Taylor wires on it from MSA...not sure if they have a spiral core or not. I run non-oxy pump fuel, but 92/93 is the best I can get here in central MN. I don't have access to anything higher than that. I didn't ask Rebello as they didn't build this motor. The PO assembled the pieces using directions available for the 3.1 stroker. I have them somewhere...from what I've read, it's a pretty standard build. I noticed in their website, though, they're turning out a lot more HP than I am, their stroker 3.1 was close to 325 I think. So, I need to find another 50 horses somewhere, could be in the timing...or the fuel. Either way, I'll start with the plugs! So...BP6ES (with BP7ES for track days)...skip the "R"?

Good morning everyone, and happy holidays! For Christmas, I was thinking I'd replace the plugs on my Z as it's been a few years, but I'm not sure where to begin getting the right one. I've read the forums here, and it looks like the best bet would be either the BPR6ES-11, BPR5ES-11, or BR6ES. The issue is that my car isn't stock, and I went through the NKG website and looked at every Z from 1970 through 1985 to get a feel for what they recommend. (I attached the PDF from the site here to help make sense of what the letters mean.) My engine is: F54 engine block, 3mm overbore; 83mm stroke, KA24E shaved flat-topped pistons, 3.098 liters (standard 3.1 kit) P90 head, ported, with stainless springs & valves 490 Lift – 290 Duration CAM 9.5 compression ratio Triple 45 DCOE Webers Electromotive HPX electronic ignition (no distributor) Campion 9007 plugs set at .035 A couple years ago I switched from NKG to Champion as I had two NKG plugs that went bad at the same time and I spent hours tracking down the issue...so I got the Champions out of spite! Now, though, I'm willing to return to something more stock.Also, another issue is the gap. My electromotive manual says that stock street should be from .045 -.060 and performance street should be .030 - .035. I've got the Champion plugs now set at .035. (I've attached the manual for that, too, in case anyone's interested.) I'm not sure how muh it matters, but the car came with BP7ES plugs...I don't know how the PO arrived at those, however. My current guess is to go with the BPR5ES-11, and set the gap at .045. I'm not too worried about going up a notch in heat range as the engine runs plenty cool--barely getting to 180 under normal circumstances, and on the track it never went above 190. It also runs rich at idle (AFM = 10), so I'm thinking the hotter plug will help it start as well. Finally, I did have it on the dyno this fall, and the results were pretty decent. Without the airbox I fabricated, it was getting 220 at the wheels, so I'm guessing with a 15% tranny efficiency loss, it's running about 250 at the flywheel. I've attached that file, too. I think my timing post 3K is low, so I'll be fiddling with that in the spring when the snow melts...but first I want to get the new plugs in. So....any suggestions from the experts? design_symbols_plugs.pdf HPX Ignition Manual.pdf

I'll see what I can rig up this winter...sounds a good option. Also, checked the brakes this morning and measured the pistons so I could get the new seals on the way (they come in 1 3/8, 1 5/8, and 1 3/4 sizes). I've got the typical 1 3/8 pistons front and rear. I ordered seals for all corners and new cotter pins from Design Products this morning. I'm sure I could have gotten them through Summit, Wilwood, etc., but Don at Design Products has been really helpful and I like sending my business his way. For anyone interested, his website is: http://www.dpracing.co/ and his prices were exactly the same as ordering them from Summit or Wilwood. Also, for folks in the future looking for the process I plan to follow, I found a Youtube link that was reasonably helpful. It's here: Finally, I learned that I have the standard compound for street on the car, the equivalent today is the BP10. I'm not super excited with how they work in the wet, but I'll try to manage one issue at a time and play around with the recommendations here once the system is working properly.

Thanks again Chickenman--I love the idea of brakes and especially know what that thing does. I'm assuming I'd know if it was tripped already in some way, so I'll assume it's set and plan to leave it there...just in case. Patcon, any idea where the "switch" part of it is? Is there an electrical connection I missed, or do I need to add something? I'm sure I'd feel the difference, but I made a "check engine" light (it's a shift light with a "check engine" sticker over it) for fun, and I could add the brake switch to that circuit so I know when something has gone sideways for the brakes.

Hooray! Sounds like good news to me! Is there any advantage (or reason) to remove the warning/control lamp switch/valve? I still can't imagine what it does...and, it's not connected to anything electrical, so maybe it's a mechanical failsafe in case one of the master cylinder resovours dies? Hmmm. I like the idea of getting things out of the way if they're not necessary, but I also like brakes!

OK...so, I took some photos last night and here's what I have. I think it looks like I have the warning light switch and no proportioning valve, but I'd like to confirm. For the record, there is no valve assembly on the firewall and the line headed to the rear stops in the cabin at the Wilwood proportioning valve and then continues back to the "splitter" in front of the spare tire well. I think I can see where maybe there was another valve there...so maybe that was where the proportioning valve used to be. This looks like just a splitter to me, but let me know what you think!

Thanks for the update, everyone, though I'm more confused than ever in some ways. No doubt it's a 1971 model, made in 12/70, but it's had a lot of work done including the Wilwood brake upgrade. So, my plan is to take photos of both places and post them here this weekend to make sure I know what I'm looking at and what needs to get replaced if anything. For example, do I need a brake warning light switch? All the gauges have been replaced, so I'm not sure what it would go to or what would light up if the switch triggered something. Seems like extra hardware. I'll take photos of what I find inside the hood and in the rear and see what you all think. Glad to hear that things are simpller to eliminate than I first thought, though, if that's what needs to be done in the end.

Chickenman, thanks for the photo...I thought it would be under the car in the back somewhere somewhere. And, now I'm a bit worried as I think this stock "control" valve might still be under the hood. I certainly don't need it AND the Wilwood proportioning valve in the cabin I don't think. I'll have to run home and check...interesting. I'm hoping if it is there, there's an easy way to eliminate it without causing all kinds of leaks, etc. Has anyone done that and have a photo? I'll see what's under the hood tonight!

Thanks, Chickenman, I was thinking about this, too. I didn't put these brakes in, so I assumed the previous owner took the stock valve out when he did the brake swap and removed the emergency brake, etc....but I better check to make sure. It's in the rear on a 1971 yes? Would it be under the car? Also, do you know what it looks like? I'm assuming it's bigger than just a "T"? Also, spoke to Don again at Design Pro and we have some new seals, etc. picked out. Looks like Santa's going to bring some refreshed brakes this year!

Glad I could help provide some information, Chris, I'm pretty new to all this, so folks like Chickenman have a lot more experience. I'm looking forward to figuring out what I have on the car now, for example, and looking for other pads as options in the future. I also notice a lot of brake dust, especially if I use them hard. It does add a certain magic to the car as otherwise it's clean. Adds a little street cred to what is mostly a daily driver. :-D Interestingly, Chickenman, when I called Wilwood and asked for pad compound recommendations, they did point to the BP10 or BP20. Finally, cranked the proportioning valve all the way down so there's max pressure to the rears now...if we weren't getting snow and freezing rain at the moment, I'd be tempted to take it for a run and see how it feels!

I think the one you're after is here: http://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/60-9921 You can build your own, but it's real purpose is to keep the timing chain from slipping down into the oil pan...which would add a few steps (OK, more than a few) to your process!

Hi Chris, I don't know if this is helpful or not, but Don at Design Pro said that there should be a number on the back of the pad that you (or Wilwood) can cross reference and get the information you need. I also found this handy chart on the Wilwood website about their pad compounds you might be able to use as you pick out your next set. You can find it here: http://www.wilwood.com/Pdf/Flyers/fl384.pdf Also, a run-down of all the compounds: http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl227.pdf Hope it helps!

P.S. Just called Wilwood and got the answer on the proportioning valve. The tech guy said think of it as a backwards garden hose. SO, cranked all the way DOWN is the most flow...all the way UP is the least. Wahoooo!

I like the idea of testing out the bias in a safe spot, once I get everything back together. It seems unlikely the rears will lock, but it's worth testing. I also decided I may call Wilwood and find out for sure which position has the most bias toward the rear of the car. As for removing the pistons I'll have to be careful with the compressed air for sure. I was thinking I could maybe inspect them with the caliper off the car but still connected. Maybe step on the brake pedal and get them to poke out a little first before I disconnect them. Summit had the seals for about $10 per corner, so an inexpensive exploration.

Hey Chickenman and Mike--great suggestions. I'd much rather work on things now when the car is parked so I can drive it when the sun shines...and there's no snow on the ground. I don't have it on blocks yet, but if the seals aren't expensive it makes sense to replace them. Don at Design Pro was very helpful on the phone, so I'll probably order them from him as I like working with people who are helpful. When I pull the pads, he also said there might be some kind of number on the back and we could look up what they are for a compound. I do notice that in the rain it doesn't brake that well at all, so maybe another kind of pad would work better for my application. Also, I'll look for corrosion and make sure everything is clean when it goes back together. I've seen a video about replacing the seals, and it doesn't look like I can mess it up too badly if I take my time. I didn't think about the surface of the rotors making a difference, but that also makes sense. If I replace the pads, I'll definitely get them resurfaced. I had the TC arms apart not that long ago, but to your point, Mike, I'll see if there are any broken pieces. I'd like to replace them with something that allows me to adjust caster anyway... It sounds like the adjustable proportioning valve isn't a likely suspect in all of this as it hasn't come up yet in your comments. But, I was wondering now if maybe I have it set properly or how to set it. With smaller calipers in the back and larger tires, it doesn't seem likely I'd be able to lock up the rears anyway, so I should probably have as much pressure heading to the rears as possible. But...is that turned all the way "up" or all the way "down?" I'll have to check out more YouTube videos I think!

Thanks for all your suggestions...I am finishing up my semester and will get the Z up on blocks as soon as it's over. I'll look for anything that's loose as well as disassemble the brakes and see if anything looks suspicious. I won't get to test it all out until the spring, but maybe if I do a careful job I can correct the problem for May!

Thanks for the feedback....I can answer a few questions... Charles, I took them off the car and looked them over carefully. I removed the pads and inspected everything I could see, but I didn't compeletly disassemble them. At that point, they had somewhere around 250 miles on them so they were basically brand new. Since then, I haven't noticed any leaks or changes, though the mileage has gone up. John, I noticed the non-stock TC rods, too, and looked them over when I redid the suspension (adding progressive springs). They seemed adequate. Since that time, the car has been aligned professionally (using the specs you posted, I think), and it's continued to hold that alignment and feel stable on the road. I called Design Pro in Huntington yesterday, and he's thinking I should try bleeding everything again. Maybe I didn't get both sides of the caliper bled properly, for example. He also suggested that if my pads are too hard, they may not be heating things up enough to work like they should as it seems to happen more when the car is cool...but not always.

One correction/addition. I found the receipt and they're Superlite II's in the front and Dynalite II's in the rear (both are 4-piston brakes).

Hello everyone. The snow is on the ground in northern MN, so it's time to park the Z and get it ready for spring. First on my list is this tricky brake problem. The previous owner purchased the Wilwood brake kit for both front and rear of my 240Z from Design Prodicts in CA, and while they were on the car, I've removed and checked them as he bought them a long time ago (1999) and the car sat until 2012 when I bought it. I've got about 7,000 miles on the car now, post the complete restoration. But, they do this annoying thing...sometimes, more in early part of the season, they pull mostly right but sometimes left when you step on the brakes. I've flushed the system and bled the lines a couple times now, and I've inspected the calipers. They look...well...brand new. The lines were replaced, too, as was the master cylinder. It doesn't happen every time...just now and then. The brake pedal is firm. My plan this winter was to bleed the lines again...and again...thinking maybe there's air trapped somewhere, but I'm new to this...so... I was also thinking that maybe the calipers were "sticking," but these brakes are so simple I don't see how that could be the case. It's just four pistons. Could they need to be lubricated somehow (but aren't they lubricated with brake fluid)? Nothing leaks, so I'm thinking the seals are fine. Maybe the pads themselves are sticking somehow? One thought...I also have a Wilwood proportioning valve...could that be the culprit? I've never understood how to adjust this, so right now it's just in the "middle" (it goes 10 turns left and right, so I've got it "set" at 5). Anyway, I've read through the forums here but most of the posts are with stock brakes, sticky guide rails, etc. I had the car on the track last fall, and the brakes were amazing in terms of stopping the car, not over-heating, and absolutely no brake fade...it's just sometimes it'll surprise you! (I've learned just to grip the steering wheel really hard--which isn't much of solution, but this is the first car I've worked on so I'm not much of a mechanic yet either.) Thoughts/comments/suggestions are welcome and greatly appreciated! P.S. I've attached some photos of the front brakes when I painted them a couple years ago. Not sure the photo is helpful, but just in case...

Heh heh. I'm not sure "hero" is the right noun...I was the one who messed them up in the first place! ;-D I'll do some more reading on Blue's posts...too bad he's so far away from MN!