Rill Cosby

That sure seems like that would be a fault of theirs. Your engine is too advanced because of their procedure. But that is not my case. Their instructions do not state to double check with a timing light, though I did. And I believe they don't say that for a reason which will be explained below. I had to use one to get it running. That seems to be the case for multiple people and also for me. This is where the timing light comes in to play. Why would you have a timing light available and set static timing at say 15? I wouldn't. I know static timing varies from vehicle to vehicle when using this ignition but static timing of 0 - 10 should not cause any issues here. I say that because "Static timing is set at TDC. When you crank the engine, the 123 fires at 0 degrees advance until the engine starts and achieves 500rpm. Then the programming comes into play, activating the chosen curve and setting the idle advance at 10 degrees. It provides 10 degrees between 500 and 1000 rpm. Beyond that the selected curve takes over." Example Following instructions gives you 10 degrees at 0 to 1000 rpm. Above 1000 rpm timing is according to the curve selected. Using a timing light setting 10 degrees up to 1000 rpm is exactly the same timing as above. Setting the timing to other than 10 degrees "shifts" the curve higher or lower by the difference from 10 degrees. So, if timing is set to 15 degrees at idle (under 1000 rpm) then the maximum advance will be 5 degrees higher than specified by your chosen curve.

Verified by timing light. Mentioned in emails and my original post as well.

That is their factory installed curve for their distributor for our vehicles. I didn't even get to play with all the fun stuff.

That was my theory since the beginning. The problem was that there wasn't enough evidence to back that up, although that wasn't the purpose of this thread. I'm just going by the history of the engine, the few things I did look at and also, to be honest, the smell. It's a ring issue like I expected and now we are right back to the beginning. What caused it? I'm still keeping my eye on detonation issues. Surprisingly enough it just so happens I installed a part that controls detonation greatly, that also shows signs of faults. Not only externally but showed malfunction internally. But the latter is my word against nobody elses. That is until Ed of 123ignition tests it, after he has to replace the cap.

Well, to not keep you guys waiting I went out and decided to do a dry and wet test. Piston number 4 being the culprit in bold. Dry - 173 - 175 -178 - 137 - 178 - 178 Wet - 182 - 185 - 187 - 166 - 185 - 185 As far as tearing down the head that will be a little ways from now. If ever.

I will double check soon. Numbers if I remember correctly were in the range of 170-180 before compression. I'd have to find the piece of cardboard if we are looking for exact. The lowest cylinder, that was not this one, I believe was roughly 168. The cylinder afterwards is 130-ish.

I agree. I know the majority have good experiences. There does seem to be a small trend among bluetooth models having more issues than the other programmable models, outside of the caps. But yes, the distributor cap seems to be the same in all setups and should be addressed. I'm genuinely curious on to what other information you would like? I'm being serious because I would like to know as well to help pinpoint the issue, if even possible. It's a little different as I know the history of the vehicle so I'd be willing to share and that is why my mind is focused primarily on the timing being at fault. Because of one, the compression (before and after). Two, valve lash is correct. Three, no issues prior. I'd have to check the mileage but I'd say 15,000 miles ago this engine went through an entire rebuild. Only a little bit of head work but the bottom end was completely redone, timing kit as well. I'd like to think if it would have went bad, it would have went bad already. That's not necessarily true but man, what a terrible coincidence if it decided to now. I will get to it soon to do a leak down test and at some point get inside to confirm or deny valves.

Hmm, I don't think that's the vibe people are getting from this thread. Proven by almost everyone else who posted prior to you made a comment about that's how they shouldn't be running the show. If you stand behind them, without even reading the emails, how can you sit here and say they are a good company? You're part of the problem, my guy. The email is still there to view. I will mention again that in those emails before an argument even began and I quote "Also just to clarify, I'm not looking to get anything out of this. It puts me in a horrible situation being my daily driver, but it is what it is. I'm just explaining my experience and I would hope at the minimum I could at least return the thing and get my money back." In which the director sidestepped that and instigated. Why should that even happen?

What do you mean? I've already won. It would help if you knew what we were competing for. You made a dead topic "popular" and go from like 50 views to almost 200 views. One of the first things to pop up when researching this product. That could have made one person not buy this product, into possibly two, Hell, maybe three. I should be thanking you!

Then why are you even here?

I'm also still confused by your theory. If I could "beat" up my car before the install, why can't I " beat" up my car with a new distributor that is set to the same specifications of my old, functional distributor? I could "beat" it up 30 minutes before. Why couldn't I after the install?

I'm sorry, I should have been more specific with that. I meant to say I clarified that this could be a big, huge coincidence. You're missing the point of this post. This isn't in the "Help Me" section. Nowhere here did I ask for help on diagnosing a failure. Most of those things have been checked. Again, not what this post is about. What happens if it is shot rings, or if it's this, or if it's that? It will still be my fault by your theory. This is what confuses me. I've voiced my concerns with Ed in what could have caused this scenario to happen. His response was "very unlikely." I stated "but possible?" He stated "yeah..but unlikely" We discussed timing and how this distributor is supposed to work. I don't know why I have to explain that varying degrees of timing in each direction can be detrimental to an engine. Pair that up with a distributor that clearly is not functioning correctly as proven by it's own app, who knows what that distributor is doing internally. I have no idea what it's set to, nor do you, nor does 123ignition. Sometimes your senses can't save you before an engine failure. And trust me, I was looking for signs. I don't know what you're trying to achieve here. I have way more to lean on here than you do, albeit not much. Maybe you're trying to see it from both sides, but you are reaching, far. Your first thought was to think I got frustrated because something, that I didn't even know was broke yet at the time, happened that I couldn't understand so I started gunning my engine. Come on. There is no way you're not the director of 123ignition himself.

Thank you for reading. I remember coming across your post way back whenever I was doing research on these units. I remember when reading yours I convinced myself that you must have got the only fluke! haha. I've also come around to carrying various spare parts that can fit in the storage bin by the spare tire. Belts, a fuel pump, filters, a spare cap for your spare cap. Can't be too prepared.

I can at least say it's not a loose rocker arm. In that case, I have a perfectly good engine block with a bent valve for sale. Real cheap.

Again, which I clarified already. Will it be awkward? No, not really. I'll share it here and it will be a learning experience for everyone. Mostly me. I have nothing to prove, my man. I'll be the first one to say I'm wrong (also stated in emails) That doesn't disregard how customers are treated when there is an issue with their product.

Thank you for sharing your story and for reading. That's funny you share your post because I do recall now reading yours! I could have sworn it was longer than a month ago. Man, time flies. Also thank you for your well wishes. I plan to get her up and running pretty soon. It's a shame I'll miss vacation but eh. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your unit over there, my friend.

Sorry it was not talked about in more detail in the post as this was not the point of the post, but that information was provided in the email. I will make edits. I can attest to the strength of these engines as I've been daily driving mine for roughly 7 years. Hell and back, not just city cruising. I did do some refresh work on it at some point but never a problem with the cylinders really. All I have is the variation of compression numbers before and after install. Low compression in a cylinder which I stated to Zed Head that I think that only leaves a few options.

I've seen my fair share of rants. I think I'm simply just putting my experience out there, there is no yelling or anger. I put a copy up of our emails. My first paragraph outlines that this is regarding the quality of a product and customer service. And I 100% disagree with your ending statement. I think this will influence someone, even if it is only one person. I'm okay if I just saved one person from headaches or at that very minimum save them from being stuck on this side of a road because of a distributor cap failing on a $600 dollar unit. What I'm highlighting above is not the first example of this, in only the short time we have been talking. As much as I am ranting, you are reading. We're not going to do this, at least I'm not. I've seen your work here and you're better than this. I've laid out my side rationally and you're attempting to use that as points in your own argument . I state things like " Did it lose vacuum? I just measured healthy compression a week ago, why would shortly after my drive a piston burn up? Issues within the distributor? Maybe this piston was on it's way out already? Both possible and I agreed that there were too many variables to prove." Which is ultimately why I agreed, with Ed, that we were to go our separate ways. But you're yet to see both sides of things. Even though their app is showing me that their product is not functioning, I have no way to prove that. I provided proof of what I could. Which is compression numbers (in emails, I'll edit my post), proof of what their product does in case of a malfunction, faulty designs, and customer interactions. As far as the problem goes, yes, it's low compression in a cylinder. I will dive into that internally once I get a chance to but it's a very short list on what causes low compression in a cylinder. The only thing helpful so far is you asking questions about what were conditions like before the smoke so I'm inclined to answer those. I had the windows down to help listen. I do not recall the smell of gas and my temps were okay on the vehicles gauge and the app.

Zed Head, are you in cahoots with Ed or do you just enjoy playing devil's advocate? I'll get to everyone else's post but for now I am entertained. That seems more likely? With the proof I provided and with all the information other users have posted? Also mine had an issue that people are overlooking as well and that was the distributor's ability to hold a curve. The only thing I can't prove is all the inconsistent information that was being showed by the app of the product. I didn't know the cap was broken until I removed it from the vehicle. "Ah, the smell of an engine burning. I know what I must do. Floor it." You got me, mate.

I won't lie, I did not read it all but there is a quantity of 280z NOS that is either your model number or a later model on eBay with a switch for $99 in North Carolina. Subtle differences. https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-OEM-Datsun-Nissan-280Z-Assembly-Switch-Brake-Indicator-Proportion-Valve-/113668719468 Sorry if that is not what you're after.

Hey, everyone I'll try to make this as short as possible, but there is a lot that has gone on in the past couple of days between me and various people of 123ignition so I will try my best. I will post copies of a pdf file containing the emails between the various employees of this company. I am pointing out now that I have intermediate experience in mechanics and engine building but there is a lot for me to learn still. This isn't really much of discussion on the fundamentals of timing, installation, etc. This is more so a post regarding quality of a product and quality of customer service. I ultimately don't want people to make the same mistake I made. I understand this can be a difficult situation for both parties and I will get more into that later. Okay, moving forward. I recently installed a 260z 123ignition programmable bluetooth distributor. With this unit I purchased the coil of their recommendation, along with plugs and spark plug wires. This was to be installed two weeks before my vacation so I could have time to fine tune it and get ready for a big drive ahead. I made a post a week or so ago that I was hearing noises under the hood which was confirmed to be the water pump. I documented healthy compression and no damage to rod bearings at that time. The 123ignition is a pretty straight forward install, though they do not state that you need a timing light for this to be installed properly. You do. I have one and used one but the instructions state you rotate the distributor according to the direction your rotor within the cap rotates and stop once a light illuminates within the distributor. There is a small window you'd get this correct without a timing light. Other customers had this problem. After installation is complete the car starts up no problem once timing is set. At this point I started having trouble with the app and that it had trouble reading the stock curve information from the app from time to time. This is not much of a problem as information is stored internally within the distributor. I take the car for a drive. Mapped out it was only an 8 minute drive. Within that small time frame, my cruising speed was cut prematurely by the smell of smoke. As I pulled over the engine was struggling to run. The app at this point was telling me there was no vacuum advance. Luckily I wasn't far from home and made it back. Then my communication with the company begins. I will not post that here as it will be posted in a pdf link for everyone to read below. These emails mostly are asking information about their design of their product so I can get a better understanding of what may have happened. Did it lose vacuum? I just measured healthy compression a week ago, why would shortly after my drive a piston burn up? Issues within the distributor? Maybe this piston was on it's way out already? Both possible and I agreed that there were too many variables to prove. You can see in the emails at one point I tried to diffuse the situation before tensions got high and just stated I would like a refund. The conversation was continued by the director of this company, Ron, and that ultimately I was just trying to scam him. Fast forward and Ron has lost all contact with me. I was to deal with the person I bought it from. Fair enough. I spoke with Ed. Now Ed is a pretty nice guy and even after all this I do believe he is. Ed confirms that there is too many variables and again, I agree, hesitantly. I was told to package it and send it back for a refund in which I, of course, agreed. Upon getting ready for packaging and removing a bracket you must install to mount the distributor I heard something rattling in the inside. I remove the cap to find the coil contact had broken off completely. In that process caused marring inside of the cap meaning it bounced around a bit before falling to the bottom. Whether that can cause problems with misfires? You be the judge of that. It leads me to my point of the multiple times it lost advance in a 20 minute window. Roughly the combined time of adjustments at idle and the first and final test run. How can I be confident that the internals of this distributor can do it's intended purpose whenever the distributor cap can only do it's purpose for 8 minutes? I sent this photo to Ed and Ed did not respond. I called after almost a full business day in which Ed admitted that he did see the photo. Ed reassured me that what happened is normal to happen to a distributor. We can also note from the emails that after asking 3 times how these distributors work, my suspicions were confirmed that if this product was to fail electronically that it loses all advance. Not a terribly huge problem but this is where I'm starting to have more faith in old 40+ year distributors over a shiny new one. Ending this I feel sorry for Ed. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't know what to do either. You can only do so much in this situation, I guess. I certainly don't know if I would have went with his route in saying "well, I normally charge a restocking fee but I'm waiving that for you." I understand we install aftermarket parts at our own risks. Seeing as I am, I don't know, the 1% I can see how it can be chalked up to user error. After the facts I do disagree and I do think the product is at fault. Do I expect anyone to help replace my engine? No. It'd be nice to cover some cost of it but I'd prefer to replace my engine because of my own stupidity and mistakes. Not someone else's. This may rub some people the wrong way. I'm sure some with a good experience with Ed will try to blame me. I don't care honestly. I can't gain anything from this at this point. I just want to share my story and hopefully prevent anyone from doing the same. If you spent the time to read this, thank you. The pdf is only edited to remove all personal information of both parties and to condense. There is a lot of quotes and signatures in the original. It's still a nightmare but only 4 pages and will revise later. Sorry about the watermarks. 123.pdf

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone who helped out. I didn't want to leave the thread hanging for people of the future but the finding was nothing revolutionary. After checking and seeing the choke was working properly I went back to search for leaks. I decided to try a smoke method and couldn't get anything. I tried using carb cleaner to look for leaks in the past but out of frustration I tried it again and used A LOT. After puddling formed around the balance tube the leak finally revealed itself on the side of the balance tube. Now that is sealed, it's almost back to it's normal self. That is until I installed the new 123ignition distributor. That'll keep me busy for the next couple of days. Thanks everyone for the help.

This is something I didn't think of checking. I'll hopefully get some time around it tomorrow and report back! During this process I have the choke cables unattached temporarily. I will check around what you and Mark said and take a look at the throttle valve tomorrow for sticking or any other issues. Didn't seem to have any issues after the carb cleaning but will double check. It would be interesting to hear about what is more "normal" for sure. Even though most of us run about roughly the same type of setups, there is a lot of variations within them and I'm sure you can only get it to run at certain level of efficiency no matter what you do, just a matter of what that level is exactly. I've had the process of what you described in other vehicles but after the mods on the Z a couple years back it purrs at the start, almost every time. It COULD start without choking if I wanted to. I've just had it that way for about 3 years, that's all I have to compare it to. Albeit, 95% percent of the time it is warm weather here and it was driven almost daily. But a couple of tries of 10 second starts, even after sitting for a couple of days. No way.

Idle speed is always set when the car is warmed up. The problem I run into is that because of that rpm jump when warmed up I can set my idle to roughly 750 rpms when warm but whenever I come back to cold start it with or without choke it won't run at all. Or it has A LOT of trouble starting. I was still writing the post above while you were commenting that I'm so accustomed to starting the vehicle and having a steady idle right away. I don't know what magic is inside those Ztherapy carbs but the idle was solid no matter the temperature.