jmw_man

I ordered the Cardone from Rockauto as suggested in a previous post. I'm ready to get the ball rolling.

It's not a turbo. What does NA mean?

I'm back! I disappeared due to winter. Who wants to work on their car when it's freezing cold outside or raining even? I haven't touched the car since Nov. I just went out there, looks like a dead battery. After I get a good charge on it I'll resume testing. Just to refresh where I'm at, the potential culprits are; the module, the TIU (what is this and where is it?), the ECU (where is this? If I recall correctly it's inside car on driver side attached to left panel above feet), the crank angle sensor (I read above that it's at the bottom of the dizzy, but is it "inside" and in the bottom, or literally at the bottom/underneath the dizzy?), and last but not least, the pickup-coil (I'm not sure what this is either). I'll have to work to identify a couple of these parts. Hopefully I figure this out soon, Texas has a new law, can't register unless it passes inspection, and my registration expires in 20 days! . At this point, I'm not even going to waste a whole lot of time "testing" stuff. I'd like to just replace the "most likely" culprit so if yall can, one by one, what should I replace first? Actually, I'm wondering if I should just get a whole dizzy since if I recall correctly it comes with the module and correct me if I'm wrong but it might come with a new crank angle sensor, and pickup coil? Any recommendations on a decent dizzy? Much Thanks!! JMW

Chilly morning here in Dallas. I can't do any of my tests because the car keeps starting, . I tried starting it about 3 hours ago and it started, then I just went back out a couple minutes ago and it started again. The coil seems to remain cold while the key is on but I'm guessing this is normal if my car is starting normally right now. I'll update later if the car ever fails to start.

Well, when I said the coil got hot, it got hot with key on AND I was sparking with the jumper wire from the negative on coil to the manifold. I don't know if it would get hot with "just the key on" and without me grounding the coil's negative post. I'll see what the coil feels like with just the key in on position tomorrow. I'll also disconnect the blue and brown wire from the module and check the temp tomorrow. By the way, is that the upper connector on module or the lower connector?

OKAY, I retested for spark in number one with timing light while the key was in the on position. Result: no spark. I did the wire test on the coil as you described. Result: no spark at end of high tension coil wire, but there was a spark at end of the jumper wire. Also, you said that every third spark I should hear the injectors clicking. Well, the injectors made a "flowing" sound at "every" spark between the manifold and the jumper wire. It didn't matter what I did with the high tension coil wire I disconnected from the dizzy, it just wouldn't ever spark. Now, one observation I did make is that the coil got hot. Here's the thing, a month and a half or so ago I bought a brand new coil and put it in. I still had the same intermittent starting problem I'm having today, so i feel like my problem must be "before" the coil. What do yall think?

OKAY, I retested for spark in number one with timing light while the key was in the on position. Result: no spark. I did the wire test on the coil as you described. Result: no spark at end of high tension coil wire, but there was a spark at end of the jumper wire. Also, you said that every third spark I should hear the injectors clicking. Well, the injectors made a "flowing" sound at "every" spark between the manifold and the jumper wire. It didn't matter what I did with the high tension coil wire I disconnected from the dizzy, it just wouldn't ever spark. Now, one observation I did make is that the coil got hot. Here's the thing, a month and a half or so ago I bought a brand new coil and put it in. I still had the same intermittent starting problem I'm having today, so i feel like my problem must be "before" the coil. What do yall think?

Good point about the distributor. RockAuto shows the Cardone at $141.79. The same exact part at O'Reilly Auto is $201.99. Definitely not a bad option since the module is the same price as the dizzy from RockAuto. As for testing the spark plug for spark, no, I didn't have the key on. I'll have to retest. I tried to retest about an hour ago, but the engine started...... go figure. So I setup the timing light and the remote start and closed the hood. I'll just wait till later when it won't start and I'll already be setup. By the way, when it started, I turned it up, hooked up the timing light and the remote starter and did a test run with the remote starter and it started up the second time as well but it seemed like it hesitated, very slow startup like it barely caught. Anyhow, I'll just test for spark later when it won't start. Step 2, I'll do the wire test on the coil as you described. Step 3, I'll look into the GM HEI module option.

Well crud. I thought for sure I'd be able to buy the ignition module at a cheap price because I saw that O'Reilly's lists the BWD part and another house brand for under $100. It turns out that they can't get those anymore and they could only offer something over $100. Actually, I think it was closer to $150 for their cheapest ignition module. Any pointers?

Oh, I got a remote starter so I could turn the engine while under the hood. Number 1 spark plug isn't sparking. I didn't check the others. The problem is definitely a spark problem. Still won't start. The problem no longer seems intermittent, it won't ever start now. Anybody know of a way for me to test spark at the coil? Edit: Although, as previously stated, I don't think it's the coil because way back when I put a new one in it still experienced the same problem. It's gotta be a bad ignition module. I'm thinking of just buying a new one. The tests I did on the ignition module a while back didn't fail it but the problem was afterall still intermittent. I'll just get a new one and then update here.

Explain that part?

Got the stang running. It took a good amount of carb cleaner. Back to the Z.... I feel like I just need to wait till it won't ever start....

I see, so while the engine is cranking the fuel pump should be sending fuel to the carburetor. Thanks for the link.

, I look down and I see the titles of some other threads: "turns over won't start", "turns over won't start", "turns over won't start".... I'm trying to get my 65 mustang to start too. It turns over and it fires when I spray a bit of starter fluid. I'm just not sure how those mechanical pumps work. Obviously you aren't pumping fuel with the gas pedal while the engine is off... Anyways, got an active thread on a mustang forum going too. Still work in progress...

I don't even know what the sound of the valve train sounds like, .

Do I do that while it's running? Edit: nm, wouldn't make sense to not do it while it's running.

Random, temperature doesn't seem to be a factor.

Nope, the problem is still there.... Went to O'Reilly's, started no problem, but when I left there it took a while to get it to start. Also, I noticed that when it finally does start it seems weak as if something barely ignited and that helped it start. Let me ask this, a few weeks ago I adjusted the timing when I didn't know what I was doing. I adjusted it according to what the suggested initial timing should be as listed in the FSM, INSTEAD of adjusting for high rpm/high vacuum. The timing was probably 16 degrees at the time so I ended up retarding it, can't remember what I retarded it to. Anyways, here's the question, is it possible to retard the timing so much that the car will have trouble starting?

I did test number 6 and 9. Test 6 was steady around 9.5 volts which is good because it needs to be greater than 8.6 volts. Test 9 was steady around .2 volts which is good because it needs to be less than .5 volts, however, for a split second I saw it jump up to 1.2 volts and I though I hear the sound of a spark but it was only for a split second. That happened when I cranked it over the first time but it fell back to .2 volts and held steady. I then cranked it over a second time to try and see if it would do it again but it didn't, it just held steady around .2 the whole time second time around. Now, before doing these two tests, I tried starting it and the car started fine. For all I know the car got fixed when I sprayed the electronic cleaner into the connectors around the dizzy. We shall see.

It's about a year old. It probably has less than 3000 miles on it. It's a daily driver but only to the corner store for milk, . There's a few electrical tests I still need to do. Hopefully I get out there today.

Fuel pressure readings: Turn key to on, fuel pump turned on for 5 seconds, pressure went up to 32 psi. Started car, fuel pressure was steady around 28 psi.

On test number 6 and 9, I didn't do because I wasn't sure if there was a specific way I should ground the coil wire. Isn't the coil wire some kind of positive voltage and grounding it would be bad for the battery or something? Do I just use my jumper wires and connect it to the coil wire and a ground somewhere and not worry?

That's exactly what I did, . Well, I did two tests. Although, I need guidance. I went out there and first inspected the ignition module and the two connectors that are plugged into it. They looked dirty but I didn't clean them yet. The two tests I did are from pages EL-28 and EL-29 from the FSM steps number 5 and 7. First I want to point out that the FSM doesn't seem clear to me whether I'm supposed to connect the lead to the female or the male connector. Step 5: When I hooked it to the connector that's on the ignition module side, the voltage read .7 volts. When I hooked it to the connector that's on the wire side, the voltage read 11.98 volts. Which side was I supposed to connect it to? I'm guessing the latter. Step 7: When I hooked it to the connector that's on the ignition module side, the voltage read 0 volts. When I hooked it to the connector that's on the wire side, the voltage read 11.98 volts. Again, which side did they mean for me to connect it to? In both of the above scenarios it was supposed to read between 11.5 and 12.5 volts so if in both scenarios I'm supposed to connect it to the wire side then both tests were good. I also want to point out that a couple weeks ago I had already tested the coil secondary and primary resistances, step 4 and step 8. Step 4 was good as it was in the range of 8200 to 12400 ohms. However, step 8 had a reading of 2.1 ohms. 2 weeks ago I assumed my coil was faulty so I bought a new one. The new one had a primary resistance of 2 ohms as well and so did the second new one. So, I returned the two new coils and just kept the old one. That particular reading was supposed to be between .84 ohms and 1.02 ohms. I'm not sure why the primary resistance is so high on the new coils. Anyways, after doing the step 5 and step 7 tests, I used my can of electronic cleaner and cleaned all connectors attached to the ignition module and retested. I came back with the same results. So far I feel like I haven't really narrowed down to anything. I then decided I'd give her a try and crank her up. Well she fired right up. So I don't know if that means my tests were null and void. That's why I hate intermittent problems like this..... Next I plan to test the fuel pressure. Since I got it running I unplugged the wire that goes to the fuel pump and let it die to depressurize. I'll try to get back out there to hook up my fuel pressure gauge.

The sucky part is that I noticed many of those tests require a second pair of hand to crank the engine while you use a voltmeter. I wish there was another way. Anyways, I can at least inspect the wiring. I have the fuel pressure gauge, just haven't gotten around to checking the pressure (or been spending too much time on the mustang). What does FPR stand for?

What's the best method for checking for spark if you are alone and don't have a second pair of hands to rotate the engine? I'll inspect the ignition module. Um, can you point me towards the section of the FSM that covers this? I'm browsing it right now and I can't seem to find any mention of the ignition module. I put in new plugs maybe a year or so ago if I recall correctly, along with new wires, dizzy cap and rotor. I also have the IC type distributor, anything in there I need to check? Edit: I just saw a google image that shows the ignition module is attached to the distributor, I'll look there.