Carl Beck

Just as an aside - The color codes that the manufactures use, along with the formula the paint supplier creates - that specifies the exact amount of which if their color tints are mixed - - - are originally based on the type of paint and type/quality of color tints that were current and specified when the cars were produced. Even then - minute differences in the droplet size, dispensed by various color mixing machines could result in slight differences of the resulting shades of the same color. GM used to sell "Factory Packs" where they took the actual paint being sprayed at the factory that day or week - and packaged it up for later use if necessary by their Authorized Dealers -to fix transport damage etc. Buying the Factory Packs was the closest you'd ever get to the actual color the factory put on the car. As paint systems, formula's, and base composition of materials used evolved over time - the paint manufacturers had to adjust their formulas, so that the newer technology paints and different color tints being used - could produce results as close as possible to the original colors - - they are close, but don't expect exact color matches to 20 or 30 year old paints, based on a formula that has been adjusted several times to account for several different types of paint.(fading, aging and environmental factors aside). Today, using modern paint types - if you do want to get a close as possible to the original color on a 240-Z, I'd agree that using a panel with the original color for color matching is the way to go. Keep in mind that what you see as "color" is reflected light - acrylic enamel from 30 years ago reflected light differently than todays base/clear systems, or todays single stage urethanes. They are just such different materials. The color matching systems look at the reflect light from the sample part, then using the modern color tints and considering the modern paint base - they create a formula that will get you as close as your going to get (if everything in the color matching system is up to spec. to begin with). As mentioned above - PPG seems to have evolved and corrected their formulas over the years about as well as anyone could, but don't be surprised if the paint you actually get is two to four shades off.. As mentioned above - if your looking for a certain end result - you'll have to buy extra paint and spray several large test panels - then select the one that is closest to your expectations... FWIW, Carl B. BTW - the 77/78 280Z had its rear chassis redesigned to reinforce it where necessary, to pass the required 10mph bumper standard, because the Federal Government would not give Nissan (or any other manufacture) another waver to the Standard, as they had in 1975. That resulted in additional strength in the rear frame rails, which required additional room under the rear deck - .. so they raised the metal floor and added the false interior floor to cover the spare.. from Aug. 76 85210-N4700 Comp-ShockAB rear bumper RH 85211-N4700 Comp-ShockAB rear bumper LH Up to July 76 85210-N4200 Assy-Absorber Rear Bumper RH 85211-N4200 Assy-Absorber Rear Bumper LH

Working as a New Car Sales Manager for a Datsun Dealership in 73, and selling Datsuns here in Florida in 74 - I can tell you that if Nissan had been able to produce three times as many 1200's and 510's we could have sold them in a heart beat in 73. The reputation the 510 had built was almost at it's peak - why Nissan decided to come out with a model change at this point is beyond me, and it was beyond all the other Dealers in Dealers Association at the time. By 73 you didn't really "sell" 510's - you just took orders and delivered the cars. The 610 was supposed to be an up-scale/luxury reincarnation of the 510 - but it completely lacked the wonderful personality of the 510. The 610 was actually a very nice car once you got the 510 out of your head, the problem was the public still wanted a Datsun 510 - and they simply went to Toyota as their next alternative.. It was an interesting situation - one that the Sales Force and I discussed - even after I moved down here to Clearwater. People would come in, with their decision to BUY a 510 already made. We would have to inform them that the 510 had gone out of production, and was being replaced by this wonderful new 610. The average Customer would say something to the effect of "well $^!#". then they would simply leave - they didn't want to hear about anything else. The had finally made up their mind that they wanted a 510 only to find they couldn't buy one.. The switch from the 1200 to the B210 went better - it was all about gas mileage in a known dependable car... The Trans/Am being over - the poor 610 never really got the enthusiasts hyped up.. So they continued to recommend the 510 - even if all you could find was a used one. They saw the 610 as overweight and not as tossable nor fun as the 510. Of course the US Emissions Standards also hurt the 610's performance.... and the price increase for the 610 didn't help sales either.. I'd buy a 610 Wagon in a heart beat if I could find one in excellent shape around here.... but you just don't see them anymore... FWIW, Carl B. BW - that little F-10 that was on E-Bay was amazing.

OK - credit China with having the intellectual honesty to chose the best design for their purposes... it is a magnificent structure and it does just shout CHINA. It seems the first step in developing design and engineering capabilities is to hire the best from around the world and learn from them. I should have googled it first... I think I'll go look at what else these Architects have done... FWIW, Carl B.

Looking at the DATSUN X-Link: Personally, I'd be OK with the styling for 2010. Make it 1200cc, 110HP and less than 2000lbs - that sells pretty well equipped for $11,995.00 (and actually sells for that!!). Make it rear wheel drive, with a typical DATSUN bulletproof engine and drive train... 21mpg in town and 38 on the highway. Build a lot of Customer VALUE into it - and yes, it would be a modern DATSUN. Of course it would have to be sold through a NEW Dealer Chain where the new Authorized Dealers were real car people and hungry to build a successful dealership. Dealers that actually own and operate their Dealerships and actually deal day to day, face to face with their customers... Yep - you couldn't build them fast enough. Send it to your typical Nissan Dealer - and it would represent another FLOP... they want to sell $35K Maxima's now, or $32K Pickup's... At $12K they would let the little car sit on the back lot.. or blow you out the doors if you came in and ask for one.. DATSUN was about 25% the actual cars/trucks, 50% the Authorized Dealers and their Service/Parts Departments and 25% DATSUN USA. The people at DATSUN actually listened to their Customers and delivered the high quality cars/trucks they wanted to buy - at prices they could afford. Every Datsun had a large dose of Customer Value... Something that seems to have been all but completely lost in todays market.... As the standard of living of middle class America, goes steadily downward - the need for low priced new cars will grow here. Toyota was very wise to start their low priced brand - and Nissan has a huge advantage in the DATSUN Brand Name... who ever actually wants to buy a Sicon?... Every car nut would love to have a new DATSUN.. even if for their kids.. FWIW, Carl Beck Clearwater, FL

I agree with everyone - Shawn Johnson is the darling of the 2008 Games for America. So cool, so confident for a 16 year old - and yes a smile that makes you smile back. She is just too adorable. Whoever Shawn has for a "Sports Agent" will be smiling all the way to the bank - if we had 10% of what she is about to generate in revenue we'd all be rich!! Nastia Liukin has pressures that Shawn doesn't - Nastia had to fulfill her parents dreams and expectations - her expression and her attitude show a little resentment I believe. Nonetheless she is a thing of beauty to watch - Classic Lines - I'll bet if you saw her with her hair down, and smiling at someone or something - you'd be amazed how pretty that girl is. Another one with a very bright future if she adjusts her attitude - and doesn't become an alcoholic or druggy resenting the pressure her parents put on her to ACHIEVE.... their dreams? The Chinese Gym Team - they were so cute - little girls are so cute when they lose their baby teeth and smile with that gaping hole in front. I tell the boys (now 38/35) if I had known now neat little girls were - I'd have traded them in at the start! Delayed development from physical exercise... my arse! Nonetheless they were very good... I look at the Birds Nest - and wish I had the artistic ability to have become and Architect. The Design and Build of that structure is simply magnificent - so perfectly cultural and reflective of China growing industrial powers. If they are developing that level of Design and Engineering capabilities - can you imagine what cars we'll see coming from there in the near future? Phelps? You certainly can't take anything away from him. Strikes me as a fairly level headed young man and all reports are that he's a very "nice guy". No question "Best Swimmer". He also recognized the fact that for him to set a new record of "8" - he had to go with one of the best "TEAMS" ever put together. The 32 year old (forgot his name already - now sad)... really accounted for two of Phelps 8 Gold Metals... and I was glad to see Mr. Phelps recognize that in most of his interviews with the media. Instead of counting TOTAL Gold Medals in that sport - because so much depends on what TEAM you happened to go with that year - the focus should be on Individual Medals. I wonder how many other guys received as many Individual Gold Medals.. only had the bad luck of going to the Games with a Silver Medal Team.... Love the Women's Beach Volleyball !! Just my impressions... Carl B.

Fay was originally projected to come up the West Coast of Florida.. and turn in at about the Tampa Bay area.... Of course that didn't happen, it very rarely does. Looks like Fay went all but completely around us here in Clearwater. Three days of clouds, very short rain showers blown by at most 30mph winds.. The truth is - The East Coast and Central Florida really need that type of storm and/or weather patterns - it helps prevent Forest Fires and refills the ground water table... Of course no one needs 25" of rain in a 24 hour period!! Looks like you are going to get a bit more before this is past... Stay Dry.. FWIW, Carl B Clearwater/St. Petersburg

Hi Ron: Thanks - I'd never seen that. The Data Plate looks like a photograph.. and the source is credited to Nissan.. We have a pretty good idea that the car was produced -the question still remains as to it ever having been sold to the public or retained by NMC USA. Perhaps for the US Federal Governments destructive crash tests.. Regular production cars had to be used for the MVSS certifications.. Very interesting nonetheless FWIW Carl B.

Amen Ron! Analyze what you design, build what you analyzed, test what you built and feed the results back to the analysis. Iterate until you get the same results from testing the as-built as you got from the analysis. As Designed, Configuration Management, As Built. In the end, As Designed and As Built must be one and the same. Because any necessary changes to the design, have to be implemented with a Design Change Order first. Ideally changes are made to the Master one at a time, and everyone involved is notified - - but we usually don't live in an ideal world. Hard to explain the fundamentals to people that haven't had the pleasure of working in a manufacturing or production environment; but even harder to make the people that do work there follow and apply them!! Some of the reasons that the Factory Service Manuals and Parts Catalogs may or may not perfectly match your car. There is a TV Show named "How It's Made". Produced by the Canadian Dept. of Education for Public Broadcast. It is a wonderful show and provides some insight to the world of manufacturing. A world that perhaps 95% of the people never see. FWIW, Carl B.

The harder edged ones, were developed and sold by aftermarket vendors here in the US. They extend the side body line around to the end of the hood, making that harder edge you note. I'm not certain, but as I recall the earliest vendor of headlight covers here in the US was BRE. They first sold the Fiberglass covers, for use on race cars, then offered the clear plastic versions. The Nissan OEM Covers were more rounded and smooth out that hard body line. "Original Style"?? I guess that depends on how you think of it. The Nissan Factory OEM head light covers remind me of the production originals on the earlier E-Type. Many people here in the US didn't like the trim ring sticking up above the body and thought that they looked to "added on" rather than designed in. They also objected to the relatively high price charged though the Parts Dept. The fiberglass head light nacelles on the 70-73 Z's have quite large production tolerances allowed, so it seems that no two sets are perfectly alike (that's an understatement). The factory covers overlap the headlight nacelles so perfect fit on the inside edge is not needed, then use an overlapping trim ring to hold them in place. (and thus they stick up above the body surface) If you buy the aftermarket type, which mount more or less flush to the body surface, because they mount inside the headlight nacelles, you'll find that they don't fit perfectly inside the fiberglass headlight nacelles either - for the same reason - production variations in the dimensions. This is far less a problem with the 73 steel headlight nacelles. Nonetheless, you usually have to "shave-to-fit" the plastic covers inside the headlight nacelles. Very seldom does anyone get it perfect on the first set they install. (for that matter neither on the fifth or tenth set!). Nonetheless from a few feet way they are close enough for most people. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: I would recommend taking the test drive routing North, loop though Canada as they did - it is beautiful driving country!! Then back into the States, and take the Northern route across the top of the USA, come down around the Great Lakes into Ohio (land of beautiful water) and head South though the mountains into Georgia (with stop in Atlanta) and on down to Florida. Plan your trip at the end of Sept to the first part of Aug. It gets cool early in the Northern part of the US and lower part of Canada. By the end of Aug. it is possible to run into heavy snow in the mountain passes. No offense to the people in AZ, NM, TX, LA... but that route is shall we say less interesting, less green, and boringly flat.. I believe that the Notes from the Test Crew - means the Test Crew arrived back at NMC by the 20th of Dec. - to find the first car with the improved parts was already there. HLS30 0008 was the Cover Car for Road and Track Magazine - and it was on display at the 1969 SCCA Run Off's by Nov.26th Every indication I've ever found - from the people involved and press coverage etc indicated that all three of the Press Cars arrived just after the middle of Oct. 69. So they must have been flown in from Japan. The first ship to arrive in L.A. with 20 Z Cars included in the shipment, arrived in late Jan. 1970. That is where BRE got their first Datsun 240-Z. Cars 0009 though 00015 - no one really knows for sure yet. Since the mid-70's there have been "stories" or "urban legends" about them. The most usual is that they were sent to Canada for further cold weather testing, or that they were the cars used for the US's Safety crash testing and certification programs. Some people belive that they were given to some of the private race teams like 0008 was. According to the Nissan Parts Catalogs HLS30-00013 was the first sold to the public. I have been in contact with people that claim to have seen it. One person sent me a picture, but I couldn't see the VIN. That person wrote to tell me that his friend had the car then sold it. So it is "possible" that 00013-00015 are out there, but so far we've never been able to track them down. (I've been looking since 1974). FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: Perhaps... just maybe... The Test Crew arrived at NMC the 20th of Dec. to find the first car to arrive with the new parts had already been received while they were on the road test. By Dec. 20th the Jan. issue of R&T was on the news stands. Magazines usually are printed and delivered before the Issue Date. That sentence you had a question about might read if more fully explained - - -This car is the first one "to be built with the new steering and drivetrain parts" and pictured in the road and track issue of Jan 1970. That would make sense - it would have been HLS30 0008. It was silver and delivered to Bob Speckman (a private racer) by the Datsun Competition Department, in the fall of 1970, after Nissan was done using it for publicity etc. It was in the L.A. Auto Show, was the cover car for R&T and was sent to the 1969 SCCA Runoffs (Nov. 26-30) as a show car. HLS30 0008 was raced as car #14 at the 24 Hours of Daytona and was the first Z to finish the race. It finished 4th O/A. It is still being raced in Vintage Events by Dr. Bork FWIW, Carl B.

John Williams 770-806-2926 You won't find any better FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Filipe: Your Z looks wonderful - you have to be very proud of it. When David comes to visit us in Florida - we put him to work!! Here's a picture of David sitting on a friends car - his Uncle is standing next to him. By the time they left we had the car stripped to a bare shell and ready to go to the body shop. Standing to the far right is Jim, that's his garage. FWIW, Carl B.

I doubt it will take Greg long to get used to that GT-R... and take it to the track.. Thanks for posting the pictures - just wish Miami wasn't so far away... or maybe it wasn't so hot in Aug/Sept here in Florida... Looks like you have a good group of enthusiasts in your area.. Carl B.

From earlier threads - Kats said that the test cars were Pre-production or Primary Production prototypes #14 and 15 ---------------------------from the last corrections to the referred thread - - --- May 1969 - total 2 cars - one domestic, one export: 1 = S30-00001 (Factory prototype 1) 2 = HLS30-00001 (Factory prototype 2) June 1969 - total 1 car - domestic: 3 = PS30-00001 (Factory prototype 3) July 1969 - total 4 cars - two domestic, two export: 4 = HLS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 1) 5 = S30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 2) 6 = PS30-00002 (Primary Production prototype 3) 7 = HS30-00001 (Primary Production prototype 4) August 1969 - total 7 cars: 8 = S30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 5) 9 = S30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 6) 10 = S30-00005 (Primary Production prototype 7) 11 = PS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 8) 12 = HLS30-00003 (Primary Production prototype 9) 13 = S30-00006 (Primary Production prototype 10) 14 = PS30-00004 (Primary Production prototype 11) -------------------------------------------------------- Production for Sept of 69 9 Domestic 2 Exports 11+11 in Sept is 22. So the two exports in Sept had to be HLS30 0004 and 0005, with domestics filling in the blanks. Add any HS30 in Sept. and it becomes impossible for the test cars to fill positions 14 & 15, as the total would have been 22 or above going into Oct. As mentioned the test cars arrived the 9/10th of Oct. so they couldn't have been produced after that. Past that point, HLS30 0006, 0007 and 0008 arrived just after mid Oct. 69, in time to make the North American Show Car Circuit in late Oct. 69 - LA and NY being the first of the series then. So I don't see how the build of HS30 0002/3/4 could effect anything.. I could be missing something... FWIW, Carl B.

This time of night I'd expect it to be in his garage So far the Z he restored hasn't shown up on any of the registers, nor e-bay etc... but we keep looking... FWIW, Carl B.

Oh my God here we go..... Carl B.

Hi Mike: I saw an ad posted on a Bulletin Board during the 1995 Convention in Atlanta. Same as the ad for #16 that you posted. When I returned home at the end of that week - I called, and called and called - no answer. This went on for weeks, and finally at 11:00PM some girl answered - only to tell me that the previous party was no longer at that phone number, she had just gotten it a few weeks earlier. She said she thought the person had moved to Columbus, Ohio. So for the next couple months I tried to track the person down in Columbus.. no luck. A couple months after that as I recall - I got an e-mail from the owner of #16. Seems he had advertised it for sale - and the response was so huge he felt he underpriced it - so he took it off the market. Now he was thinking of selling it again. I told him to put a price on it that made him happy and let me know, as I'd be a buyer. We exchanged e-mails several times, but he would not commit to a price nor a sale. He just couldn't make up his mind. I related that story to my friend in the Tampa area - - when he ask me about the car. So my friend started calling the owner, who we now knew lived in a town just North of Columbus - every couple days. The owner traveled a lot, and wasn't home very much, nonetheless my friend kept calling. He talked to the owners wife for hours and got to know her, he talked to the owners live-in baby sitter for hours and got to know her (Shannon). This went on for months... Finally he caught the owner at home - and the owners wife told the owner to make up his mind if he was going to sell the car or not - she was tired of talking to my friend. The owner had just bought a 1926 Caddy - he needed the room for a new project - so he agreed to sell the car... for the originally advertised price. My friend called and ask if I wanted to go to Ohio with him to pick up the car and drive it home. The owner had assured him it was "Pristine" and could be driven anywhere. So we flew up to Columbus and the owners wife picked us up at the Airport. When we got to the owners house, we meet Shannon and I want to tell you SHE was PRISTINE!! At that point the owner wasn't home yet from another trip.. so we had to wait a few hours... When the owner got home, we went to the garage, un-coved the car and it was in very good shape. Even still had it's original 1969 Dated Spark Plug Wires! Started up and ran like a clock... My friend paid for the car and we were on our way SOUTH... We were both laughing the whole 1500 miles home ... "PRISTINE Carl!!" .. my friend would shout... and we'd laugh as that 240-Z ate up the miles at 80mph+. The only problem we had, was the fact that the seats had lost their support.. and we were sitting on the lower seat frames.. So we stopped at a local K-Mart somewhere in Kentucky and bought a few pillows to sit on... BTW - the car was originally Gold, the owner had the exterior body painted White. Other than that the car was about 99% original and rust free. It had originally come from Texas. Bottom line - #16 would be worth far more than Wick's car... FWIW, Carl B.

All other things being held even - an interesting VIN will sell first, and perhaps for a bit more money. FYI - RLS30 00020 was the OMS Pace Car that Bobby Unser won... its still in the Unser Garage.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: Many early Posters were produced by Nissan USA for use in show room displays. The Datsun/Nissan Competition Department also had Posters produced for the various classes of racing. If the original artwork was Nissan's - then it is likely that BRE2 would not reproduce it without copyright permissions - and we all know that is all but impossible to work with Nissan. I have a 1970 BRE C-Production Championship Poster, but Gayle said BRE did not produce it... I did take it out of the showroom... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: As the HLS30 and HS30 had different series numbers - why would it make any difference if HS30-00002/3/4 were made before the test cars? FWIW, Carl B.

Got busy and forgot to hit the "submit" button - should have returned to the thread and checked.... FWIW, Carl B.

Are we forgetting that California, Oregan and Washington are also close to the oceanROFL FWIW, Carl

Hi nwa240z: Thanks for your reply. You have a pretty original car and so far no other has turned up with the same Series Number. So you are most likely in pretty good shape. Likewise "scarab153" plus he has some documentation to accompany his. I'll state right up front that I'm no expert on the Scarab's - indeed I have only a very limited knowledge of the cars. I applaud Mike's efforts to gather together as much information as possible and make it publicly available here. Thanks to you and scarab153 for contributing to that knowledge base in this thread. It is a shame that an effort to publicly document and register these cars wasn't started years ago. It would have been of benefit to all owners, as well as sellers and buyers alike. If you and Craig believe that there were two cars given the same series number by Brian, and you believe that the car on e-bay really was produced/modified by Scarab, then that's the best information you can provide to a prospective buyer. I do believe that it should be preceded by "In My Opinion" or "Based On My Research I Believe...". The main reason for public discussion on this forum, is for the benefit of prospective buyers. The Pro's and Con's of any car are usually fully discussed - and the prospective buyers, if they are here, can make their own decisions. My opinions are simply based on 40+ years in the Classic, Collectable and Special Interest markets. If I wanted a Scarab, I'd want it as original as possible and with as much documented history as possible. {Tigers, Corsa's, Pontiac GTO's, Fuelie Corvettes, LS-6 Chevells you name it and you'll find plenty of fakes in the market}. Buyer Beware - anyone that wants a real "whatever" - I believe is best advised to buy "whatever" when it is fully correct, with a documented history. Lacking that, the closer one can get to that standard the better the bet with one's money. Personally if i wanted a Scarab, I'd keep looking for one, I can't see getting involved with any car with a controversial background nor one that has been so extensively modified to begin with. As you said - we'll have to let the market determine what that specific car is worth. I would hate to see it set the benchmark for the value of Scarab's. FWIW, Carl B.

Hello jtmader: In five years the price you paid for the Z's you mention - will look like an absolute bargain. In addition to that, if you go shopping five years from now - you'd be looking for a year or more to find any for For Sale in like condition. Some of the old saying prove true over time - "You can't pay too much for a really great car, nor too little for anything less." FWIW, Carl B.